I agree that there are some terrible teachers who have the qualifications, and I have had a few of them when I was in school. They made me hate subjects that I previously loved because they quite clearly did not have the passion for it and I certainly would not want that for my children. My son's teacher is fabulous, she has been teaching for a long time and is still passionate about it. She knows my son very well and he loves going to school and is doing very well (as well as a 6 year old can!).
I agree that there are some terrible teachers who have the qualifications, and I have had a few of them when I was in school. They made me hate subjects that I previously loved because they quite clearly did not have the passion for it and I certainly would not want that for my children. My son's teacher is fabulous, she has been teaching for a long time and is still passionate about it. She knows my son very well and he loves going to school and is doing very well (as well as a 6 year old can!).
I've been reading this with interest as I'm looking into schools myself.
Your analogy about Doctors doesn't necessarily ring true as if I'm looking for a Doctor/Dentist/Health Practitioner, I always put a lot of weight on how long the individual has been in practice. You would not necessarily go and see an inexperienced pediatrician just because he's got degrees & certificates coming out of his ears, you will want to know that they have experience too.
The qualifications as you say are a minimum requirement but is, in my opinion, there as a guide to helping you making an informed choice.
It was a decision that we made before we moved here. My son started his education in the UK and we wanted him to continue on the same path while here, so that when we return he can slot back in to his class with relative ease.
Also, the move here was quite a transition for him and we did not want to make it more difficult for him but putting him into a government school where he would struggle to understand what was being taught and also may have struggled in the playground during break time etc. I was not comfortable being in a situation where I could not help him with his homework etc.
Also, the fact that your husband is local and can quite easily help your children, converse easily with teachers etc puts you an an advantage with government schools. This was not an option for us at the time.
I agree that the qualification is not the only thing that needs to be looked at, but it is definitely a minimum requirement as far as I am concerned.
You would not trust a doctor who was practicing for 15 years but yet had never been qualified. I feel the same about teachers.
If I was not happy with my son's teacher (even with qualifications) I would do something about it but I would never have put my son in to his school if the teacher was not qualified in the first place.
I see a lot of people here who struggle to get a job when they come here (their husband/wife has good job and they are bored) and they cannot speak cantonese. The first suggestion is always "do you speak English? why not get a job teaching?" This does not mean they would be good teachers and they may not have passion for it either. The fact that people feel that because the can speak the language they should somehow be qualified to teach it is beyond my comprehension.
Exactly. Also, you have to remember that in Hong Kong, pieces of paper count for a lot. If you've ever had to register for anything official in HK (i.e. go through immigration, apply for university courses, apply to work in a civil service position) they really do want to see all of your certificates back to the "beginning of time." In many cases your work experience and life experience are not even taken into account--most of the time they don't want to see any paperwork having to do with experience--only education/qualifications.
In the case of civil service jobs (for example the EDB NET Scheme) they only want to see evidence of the number of years you've worked so they can establish your pay rate on the salary scale--not to determine if you're in any way qualified--this is established after you're hired for the position, not before.
And the education system here in HK is completely exam-focused and more times than not, students are taught and learn by rote so they are literally cramming their minds with information only to regurgitate it on an exam--and whether they have any real practical ability is debatable. Whether they even remember what they've written on the exam is also debatable. So, the good students who make the grade and end up in whatever profession don't necessarily have what it takes to be good in that profession--they were just really good at memorizing information. This exam system was originally designed literally hundreds of years ago (with the imperial exams) to weed out people for civil service jobs--and what's most important in civil service is following protocol and not stepping out of line (i.e. looking for people who are really good at stamping papers)--not people who are innovative and can adapt and change and meet the needs of diverse students.
You'll find for many of the teachers in Hong Kong that the profession is what is called in Chinese "an iron rice bowl"--once you're in you're somewhat set for life so many teachers (up until the recent threat of lay-offs and closures of schools because of falling enrollment) sit back and coast through--they follow protocol, stamp those papers but whether or not they are actually inspiring and teaching their students is unclear.
My son's school certainly is not as you have described above. They do enquiry based learning and he has never had to memorise anything. His teacher recently contacted me for a meeting to discuss my son's development. This worried me a little as I thought there may be something wrong. It turns out that because he is left handed (me too!) she was concerned about the way in which she was teaching him to write and was just wanted to have my input into it. During this discussion she pointed out that when he was concentrating and she was at the top of the class she was noticing a slight turn in his eye (something we had not noticed). We took him to see an optician and it turns out he needed glasses. This was not something we would have ever noticed as he was reading fine and was not getting headaches etc so we were very thankful to the teacher for this.
I am very happy with my son's teacher and she is passionate, caring and good at her job. The qualifications are not the only thing I looked at when choosing a school, but they were my minimum requirements.
Your son must attend a non-local school, then.
That made me giggle! Yes he attends an international school!
Oh, and to clarify, I brought out what the school system (in general) in Hong Kong is like to highlight that this is the same system that is training up the majority of Hong Kong's teachers. So, compared to even the "qualified" teachers in the public system, sometimes some of the "unqualified" ones who teach with heart and passion are at least an improvement over the system's status quo.
Of course, the people who have their children enrolled in international or private schools pay a very high sum (as you probably very well know) for the education of their children, thus this opportunity is not available to everyone. And for that high sum the international and private schools have the "buying power" to attract the best of the best which is wonderful for the students and the teachers. Unfortunately, this is not the day-to-day reality of the majority of education in HK.
carang
Registered User
this i can understand completely... for children who are of kindergarten age, though, i think that it could be an option, if more people knew it was out there.
for children who are already being educated overseas, to move here, then move home again.... an international school would be a very wise choice, especially if it follows the curriculum of the "home" country.
Ahem...and I'd better add a disclaimer here for Cara and other's like her (i.e. me) who have their children enrolled in local schools.
DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that local school teachers are all rubbish teachers. They are not. There are a lot of good local teachers and a lot of good local schools, but my feeling is the overall public school system in HK is broken and there are a lot of uncaring teachers out there that have that "iron rice bowl" mentality (especially the older teachers). So, if you're going to place your child in the local system, the most important is to seek out a good school with good teachers and observe them and make sure you're okay with their teaching philosophy etc. My son attends a local kindergarten and we are pleased with it and his teachers but then again, this local kindergarten is run much the same as an international kindergarten so that is unique.
DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that local school teachers are all rubbish teachers. They are not. There are a lot of good local teachers and a lot of good local schools, but my feeling is the overall public school system in HK is broken and there are a lot of uncaring teachers out there that have that "iron rice bowl" mentality (especially the older teachers). So, if you're going to place your child in the local system, the most important is to seek out a good school with good teachers and observe them and make sure you're okay with their teaching philosophy etc. My son attends a local kindergarten and we are pleased with it and his teachers but then again, this local kindergarten is run much the same as an international kindergarten so that is unique.
Oh, and to clarify, I brought out what the school system (in general) in Hong Kong is like to highlight that this is the same system that is training up the majority of Hong Kong's teachers. So, compared to even the "qualified" teachers in the public system, sometimes some of the "unqualified" ones who teach with heart and passion are at least an improvement over the system's status quo.
Of course, the people who have their children enrolled in international or private schools pay a very high sum (as you probably very well know) for the education of their children, thus this opportunity is not available to everyone. And for that high sum the international and private schools have the "buying power" to attract the best of the best which is wonderful for the students and the teachers. Unfortunately, this is not the day-to-day reality of the majority of education in HK.
It is very sad for any student to have a teacher that does not care about the very important role that they play in a child's development. It can cause great damage.
Yes, it is sad but there is a lot of additional things to understand about the stress and nature of the work local teachers deal with. Sometimes the apathy is truly understandable especially when they're handed classes of 40+ students with a large percentage SEN (Special Educational Needs) with inadequate training to deal. In HK SEN students are totally integrated into the classroom which often means they're just thrown in there and they and the teachers are supposed to just get along as usual--without any real extra support. Also, the EDB is constantly changing it's expectations and in general making the workload of teachers (especially the "busy work") heavier. In my opinion, it's a problem with the system, not just the teachers.
bryant.english
Registered User
Just to add that if Hong Kong chose to make it compulsory for all teachers to be university educated the cost of your children's education would probably triple...
Doubtful, considering all of the teachers in my son's school are already qualified but we would cross that bridge if we came to it.
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bryant.english
Registered User
I wonder if you're confused. Western people who are teaching in government schools should be qualified. Normally they will have at least a undergraduate degree and a TEFL qualification and be working towards or hold a PGDE. Private tutorial centres are another matter of course!
I hire NETs from time to time and agree that there are a lot of chancers trying to get English teaching work in HK. The following is an Email I received just today, this is not an excerpt, this is the whole email, I've only taken out the phone number:
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English teacher
I happen to be an experience english teacher for kindergarten, primary, and secondary students located in tai po, would you like to have a phone interview? Thank you, hope to hear from you soon.
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Well, I guess he/she is not a NET!! I specifically asked for a NET!
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No confusion here at all. The OP raised the issue that she was teaching at a school where the people she was working with were not qualified to be in the classroom and the discussion arose from that.
If you are referring to my comment about the route many take when they come to a foreign country and decide to "teach" because they can speak english, then I still believe this is wrong. Private tutorial or not, people should not pretend to be what they are not as it makes a mockery of others who have spent years obtaining the correct qualifications to do the job.
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bryant.english
Registered User
But the problem is to attract professional teachers you need to pay professional salaries. The NET scheme does this, if you have a PGDE and several years of experience, you will be paid quite well. In a tutorial centre, an unqualified teacher can earn less than 200HKD per hour and the centre might charge parents 400HKD per month for four one hour lessons. Most qualified teachers would not get out of bed for this little money. People will not come here to teach if their standard of living is less than what it would be in their home country, unless they are planning on doing it short term to get overseas experience. Many HKers cannot afford to pay huge sums of money for tuition and adopt an any English is better than none approach - they're probably right to do this, I'd rather an ordinary education than none at all. I'm sorry, it's all well and good to make sweeping statements but what about the consequences? There is a kindergarten near me which is already priced out of having a NET because of the qualification requirement. They do have a qualified local English teacher and frankly, given that she can barely string a sentence together, I'd rather have my kids taught spoken English by a plumber!
bryant.english
Registered User
Where do you get off saying this, it's simply not true!