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geocup
Guest
HappyV - actually, I disagree with you. Teaching supervisors CAN and DO teach you how to deal with 30 students. It is how the teaching students is able to interpret what is taught to them!!!
having taught for more than 10 years and just completed a PGDE this past (May - my 2nd one that is) I must agree that supervisors are indeed helpful to teaching one how to deal with 30 students, and that yes, they do teach alot of philosophy, paradigms too...at the end of the day I think it is the conversation between supervisor and student that happens which is the most educational to the student teacher. in fact after teaching for so long, i thought i knew MORE than the actual supervisor because i had the hands on experience, but i was able to learn things from the supervisor that made me see things in a wider light....at the end of the day, I think, it is up to how reflective a learner the student is...
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geocup
Guest
well done on gaining your PGDE, lesliefu! Do you teach primary or secondary? During my Prac. I sometimes thought that I knew more than my supervisor too.... funny. But one day I saw him in action with a kindergarten class and he was absolutely amazing.
TheQuasimother
Registered User
There is a great difference between homeschooling and what goes on in a classroom of 30-44. Also, the classes that Cara mentions are enhancement classes e.g. ballet, soccer etc. I have yet to come across a good enhancement class where my child is enrolled and the teacher is not qualified. If the teacher is not qualified/experienced, you can tell. E.g. A certain institution had a stay at home mum teach the Sat tots soccer and it was a disaster!
But JJ Mrs P brings up a very important point - The children deserve it. Why would you shortchange your child?
Yes. As trained teachers, we've all come across them, academics who are/were our supervisors during our teaching practicum telling us what to do and not to do. They may not know what is best as a lot of academics are governed by theories and limited research. Nothing beats practical classroom experience. But you do go to teacher's college for a good reason - the pedagogy. The practical knowledge untrained teachers have is incomplete behind the rationale.
Even EDB is aware of this. If you look at the salary disbursed to teachers, they do allow untrained teachers to gain experience and teach in the local schools but after a few years, your salary isn't increased unless you get your teaching certificate. Essentially, they DO require you to get trained.
So if a local school teacher is encouraged (through monetary means i.e. to progress along the salary scale - get their annual increment) to get trained after a few years, why should we allow any other school (especially the so called international schools) to get away with it?
But JJ Mrs P brings up a very important point - The children deserve it. Why would you shortchange your child?
Yes. As trained teachers, we've all come across them, academics who are/were our supervisors during our teaching practicum telling us what to do and not to do. They may not know what is best as a lot of academics are governed by theories and limited research. Nothing beats practical classroom experience. But you do go to teacher's college for a good reason - the pedagogy. The practical knowledge untrained teachers have is incomplete behind the rationale.
Even EDB is aware of this. If you look at the salary disbursed to teachers, they do allow untrained teachers to gain experience and teach in the local schools but after a few years, your salary isn't increased unless you get your teaching certificate. Essentially, they DO require you to get trained.
So if a local school teacher is encouraged (through monetary means i.e. to progress along the salary scale - get their annual increment) to get trained after a few years, why should we allow any other school (especially the so called international schools) to get away with it?
i teach primary school...am taking a couple years off now to complete my doctorate though...the one thing with the PGDE though is that I wished the practicuum period was longer so those in training could get more because it takes a while for most to just KNOW the kids before practicing your teaching skills...
lesliefu - Sorry that you didn't get more practical experience, but I would like to briefly outline the practical experience incorporated into the BEd in Australia as you seem to think these BEd students have little to none.
Year 1 - 3 week block ( lower % load) + 1 day per week for 8 weeks in other schools
Year 2 - 4 week block ( % of load increases) + 1 day per week in other schools for 8 weeks
Year 3 - 1 week of obs/prep + 6 week block - building up to 100% of teaching load in final week
Year 4 - 1 week obs/prep + 10 weeks block - building up to 100% in final 3 weeks - also including action research and implementation project on a relevant problem existing within the assigned class, eg comprehension.
The BEd, particularly at UNE, is heavy with practical and relevant teaching experience including miscue analysis, reading recovery strategies, programming, assessment and reporting, behaviour modification, etc.
I hope that helps clarify your worries about lack of practice teaching opportunities. When seeking a tertiary course, it is best to look at the reputation of a university for the faculty you wish to study.
Year 1 - 3 week block ( lower % load) + 1 day per week for 8 weeks in other schools
Year 2 - 4 week block ( % of load increases) + 1 day per week in other schools for 8 weeks
Year 3 - 1 week of obs/prep + 6 week block - building up to 100% of teaching load in final week
Year 4 - 1 week obs/prep + 10 weeks block - building up to 100% in final 3 weeks - also including action research and implementation project on a relevant problem existing within the assigned class, eg comprehension.
The BEd, particularly at UNE, is heavy with practical and relevant teaching experience including miscue analysis, reading recovery strategies, programming, assessment and reporting, behaviour modification, etc.
I hope that helps clarify your worries about lack of practice teaching opportunities. When seeking a tertiary course, it is best to look at the reputation of a university for the faculty you wish to study.
TheQuasimother
Registered User
In HK, if you are applying to the NET scheme with EDB and I presume it applies to the local teachers trained overseas too, you need to complete at least 40 days of teacher training to become a registered teacher - different from a permitted teacher. And, your foreign credentials need to be cleared by a quality assurance board.
http://www.ceop.police.uk/Wanted/CS0711-2062/
here is a perfect example why people working with children should be police checked. This guy is wanted (missing from UK), assumed abroad and has a TEFL certificate so could theoretically come to hong kong and get a job teaching our children. scary thought.
here is a perfect example why people working with children should be police checked. This guy is wanted (missing from UK), assumed abroad and has a TEFL certificate so could theoretically come to hong kong and get a job teaching our children. scary thought.
bryant.english
Registered User
Let's remember that Ian Huntley had background checks done on him! Having also taught in the UK I can tell you that background checks will stop some poor sod who did something silly as a teenager but will not stop a determined child molestor. I teach in HK now and despite being qualified and background checked am never left alone with the children! As an English teacher in HK your job is essentially to teach from a standard set using teacher's guides and pre-prepared lesson plan. You normally have to prove yourself before you can use your own lesson plans and normally have to submit these to the school in advance.
Also, don't talk about the UK as though ..., it's like everyone has rose tinted glasses and forgets about huge classroom sizes, unqualified teaching assistants left on their own for days, violence, drugs, etc, etc. These threads always smack of prejudice to me. In my opinion, having worked in both, the HK education system leaves the UK system in it's dust and as such, I, and many other western teachers with kids, choose to have our kids schooled in local schools rather than the international ones.
The rules changed because of this case. Although he had checks done on him, they were in a different police district and at the time police did not share information to other forces. This is not the case any more. I have experience in this as I worked for the CRB after the Huntley case.
I never said that UK schools were better than HK schools. I did say that it is better to have qualified teachers than non qualified teachers.
I really hate having to pay the money we do here to put my son in school, but for the money we do pay, the least they can provide the students is qualified teachers. I would have loved to put my son in to a local school but it was not possible as neither myself or my husband speak cantonese or mandarin and would be unable to help him with his studies.
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Please do not even try to tell me that Hong Kong is exempt from all of the above..... I do believe that you may have borrowed my rose tinted glasses if you think this!
I have to say that in my experience in both the HK primary and secondary schools I've met plenty of teachers who were "qualified" on paper to teach but were not good teachers at all. Conversely, I've met teachers who didn't hold the highest credentials but who had a knack for teaching and were much more "qualified" in my opinion. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with being fully qualified (or working toward it) for the position you're in but as a parent I would rather sit and watch the teacher in action and decide for myself whether or not he or she is "qualified." A piece of paper doesn't tell me much, honestly.
Would you apply the same rules for a doctor? Again, I never said that all qualified teachers were great but it should be a minimum requirement before you can teach children as far as I am concerned.
Again, I would judge everything on a case-by-case basis, honestly. I think that the evidence speaks for itself, regardless of what the paper says. And, again, I say this because I've witnessed far too many "qualified" teachers who were anything but in reality. I think that experience and heart make a bigger difference than anything--especially at the kindergarten and primary level. Yes, it would be nice if every teacher in HK held a high qualification but that's not the reality and honestly, it doesn't bother me all that much.
carang
Registered User
a lack of cantonese does not exempt you from using local schools. There is one in sai kung that is designated as a school for non-chinese speaking children. We have enrolled our son in it as have many other expats in sai kung. there are more of these schools around, you just have to look for them.
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TheQuasimother
Registered User
Cara, which school is that? It's almost impossible to know from the EDB website. And, is there any learning support for non-Cantonese speakers at that school?
carang
Registered User
lee siu yam memorial. It is right next to the public pool along the waterfront.
No school fees. Homework help after school if you want it. You choose chinese, cantonese or madarin. Mathematics, you choose english or cantonese. Other subjects are english.
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No school fees. Homework help after school if you want it. You choose chinese, cantonese or madarin. Mathematics, you choose english or cantonese. Other subjects are english.
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TheQuasimother
Registered User
Thanks! Definitely worth looking into! It would save us HEAPS!
If we were planning on staying permanently in hong kong that would definitely be something that we would look in to for our children, but at the moment our plan is to go back to the UK while my son and daughter are both still in school. These types of school would be perfect for us as my biggest gripe about us being here is the cost of schools!