Queen Mary and Husbands!

Oh...and Dink...didn't mean to be the "bearer of bad news"...I had a lady walk up to me when I was 38 weeks pregnant too (weird coincidence, right?) and tell me, "Guess what, my sister-in-law had a perfect pregnancy and then lost the baby..." blah, blah, blah...and I turned to her and said, "Well, I don't accept that bad news for myself or my baby and don't tell people those types of things." (in the kindest way possible, of course).

About going into the hospital feeling confident and positive--I totally agree and I couldn't get there with the public hospitals (or maternity system in general) here so I did go to a place that I could have confidence and positivity toward. I hope you will have a positive experience at your birth.
 
as i said, i had two VERY, VERY, VERY difficult pregnancies and i never had anything but the best medical care at QMH. i grew up next door to an OB-GYN and during my first pregnancy, we had weekly telephone calls whereby I ran through all of the tests etc and recommendations they were making and he agreed with absolutely everything they did/suggested.

i am very glad that it all worked out for you MLBW.
 
I gave birth to my first daughter at QMH b/c no insurance. It was a rough experience, sort of like camping. The nurses were not helpful- very impatient and had little time to spend with you (probably not directly their fault as I think they are overworked) (the ladies below them, sort of like orderlies, were actually nicer, but spoke no english). I was induced b/c 1 week overdue. I was admitted at 2pm and passed all over the ward for various tests- husband had to wait in hallway. I was finally induced at 4pm with heavy contractions starting at 6pm- so from 2-6pm, husband was in the hallway for 4 hours (what few seats there were, were already taken. So he sat on the floor)- I popped out to update him on what was happening b/w tests. B/c husband was not allowed in the general ward before delivery, we walked around the parking lot for about 4 hours (7-11pm) until it was time for me to go to the delivery room (so no chance to use birth ball during this time). This was actually nice in a way b/c I could make as much noise as I wanted & the cold December air & constant walking seemed to lessen the pain. I would go back to the ward every so often to ask the nurse to check my dilation. We were in the delivery room for about 12 hours with nurses, midwives, etc. constantly coming in and out and turning lights on / off (my husband yelled at them at one point to stop turning the lights on as there was really no need to turn all the lights on in the room for what they were doing.). Husband slept on a chair with a bag of underpads for a pillow! During the pushing phase, I had about 10 strangers in my room watching us (they looked like orderlies, etc.- not doctors or midwives). I had a failed vacuum, successful forceps delivery- no one ever gave me an explanation for why the vacuum failed (I later found out, failed vacuum is highly unusual & usually happens b/c the doctor doesn't know how to use it correctly or it was not appropriate for the circumstances) After delivery, the nurses gave us 10 minutes with the baby to breastfeed then took her away for cleaning, etc. Brought her back, ordered husband out of room to get out of gown, put baby on my gurney and started rolling us out. Had to yell at them to stop so that I could call out to my husband and tell him they were taking me away (he was in the middle of changing out of the gown). He found me about 20 minutes later in a post-delivery ward (QMH has a couple of maternity wards on different floors), was allowed to stay for 5 minutes, then was kicked out. So, he basically only got to see our daughter for about 15 minutes in total after she was born and had to wait until the evening visiting hours to see her again. I was absolutely starving b/c they hadn't allowed me food for almost 12 hours (I had to eat some basic snacks I had brought with me and drink my own water- I couldn't get anyone's attention to bring water to the bed). The bathrooms were disgusting- always blood & urine on the toilet seats and walls (something that looked like feces too) and in the shower (I didn't even bother taking a shower- I tried to follow Carang's advice of getting in there in the morning but was unlucky- either already occupied or being cleaned). The nurses actually got angry with me a few times 1) b/c I hadn't filled in a sheet about baby's feeding/ pooping times 2) I hadn't filled in how much I was peeing (I had a catheter from the epidural)- of course, no one had told me I had to do these things either. Nurses would come up to me and try to poke me with needles without telling me what it was for. I also received an extra needle prick b/c one of the young doctors had accidently pricked herself with a needle that she had used on me. No one could tell me when the catheter would be taken out or when I could leave the hospital (not helpful when husband meeting us to take us home). When I was given the all clear to leave, we had to leave within 10 minutes b/c baby had been given an immunization that would be contagious to the un-immunized babies- of course, no one gave us any warning about this either. But I couldn't completely leave until I paid the bill- was told to go to the shroff office in another building (nice walk with an episiotomy), only to find out it had already closed for the day- you would think someone would remember this. I then had to come back to the hospital a few days later to settle the bill. All in all, I hated the experience- all I wanted to do was get out of there ASAP. Baby #2 is due in March and I'm booked into Adventist this time (no insurance again, but willing to pay the cash for a gentle, peaceful delivery with family around me for support). QMH is the place to be for emergencies, but for me, it was traumatic, especially being my first birth-. I think your experience there will depend on personality- I am a control freak, like predictability, etc. and you don't get that at QMH. You are basically part of an assembly / delivery line and are supposed to do what you are told without any questions and without any updates/ info. Doula at home is a great idea to minimize time in ward without husband, as well as private midwife to visit in the hospital/ at home to help with breastfeeding- The nurses at QMH told me to keep the baby on my breast as much as possible, so by the time I left, I had cracked nipples. Since learned that this advice was totally wrong! I had a lady from Annerley come to the flat about 2 days later to help baby latch on. Don't mean to put you off QMH entirely, just letting you know my experience. I probably would have gone there again knowing what I now know, but my husband has pushed for me to go private this time after seeing what I went through the first time...
 
medically, they are great... it's the bedside manner etc that is lacking. however, i must stick up for the nurses. they were all wonderful and even remembered me from pregnancy #1 to pregnancy # 2. some of them even remembered what my problems were without looking at my charts! (my pregnancies were exactly 2 years apart ~ only one day difference in due dates!)

the bedside manner is NOT good. they have a lot of people to take care of and the niceties can sometime be forgotten. my first delivery was similar to yours, however, i had an emergency c-section. my epi didn't take and i could feel everything. for the second i had another c-section, but this was scheduled and under general anesthesia. although i couldn't see #2 baby until 24 hours later, i would take that delivery over my first any day of the week without a second thought.

i would love to go private if we have a #3, however, i just cannot justify the expense. i would rather put that $ towards future education expenses etc. the only reasons i would go private would be to have my hubby & kids be able to visit me. other than that, a personal tv and catered meals would be kind of nice, too.
 
Just got to say one more thing--I don't think having to adjust your own bed during labor is exactly a bedside manner thing--some things a woman in extreme pain in labor should not be asked to do...I don't know if that happens at QMH, though. I kinda laugh because it's just about as plausible as asking patients to do their own injections and stuff. But, as most of the women here have said--they had pain meds--or full epidurals so maybe pain wasn't an issue at all--but if you're really doing natural childbirth and you happen to have a lot of pain I can imagine the situation described above by alibali would be complete hell. In order to get through a long natural birth you have to be able to relax and I don't think I could just relax being jabbed and not told why or being shuffled around and yelled at like I'm in a prison camp (my other friend who did give birth in the public hospital described it this way). But, then again as carang pointed out as well as alibali, it's an assembly line situation with staff stretched to the max so the likelihood that they would allow for a natural childbirth if it didn't fit with their tight schedule and expectations seems pretty dim. That's really too bad too. But, what can you say, right? You get what you pay for.
 
You get what you pay for, but some of us can't pay so just have to make the best of it! I am going to strictly not read this thread anymore since all the negativity is making me unecessarily stressed about something I have no choice over....

Thanks for your positive story Nicole, it was v. kind of you to post and your baby looks gorgeous, can't wait to meet ours.
 
Dink - I hope you read this thread one more time.

It's amazing that people can have such different experiences at the same hospital.
I've had 2 public deliveries, and they were both positive.
I had no drugs, and found the staff at QMH during labour to be wonderful. I admit that I didn't like one of the midwives during my 2nd birth at PWH, purely because she kept badgering me to sign a consent form for an episitomy.
But, after I threw it across the room she got the message and was OK after that! ( by the way I didn't need one and I didn't tear).
I did find it a bit more difficult comunicating with PWH staff, but had no such difficulty at QMH.

I'm suprised at the way the showers and toilets are described, as I always found them to be clean.
Maybe I was just lucky and managed to use them in the mornings after they'd been cleaned.

As for emergency situations, I had an ectopic pregancy 2 years ago, and went to the Adventist emergency, as I didn't realise at the time what it was and our insurance covers everything but maternity.
They were hopeless.
Even though I was in excruciating pain they kept me waiting 2 hrs and then had the nerve to haggle over insurance.
In the end I took myself to QMH where they were amazing.
They had me triaged within 10 mins and treated it with the seriousness it deserved.
My tube had ruptured and I was bleeding out, my blood pressure was 80/30.
They scheduled me for emergency surgery and even waited for my husband to arrive to see me before I went in.
The staff were so reassuring and nice in a very scary situation.

As nice as it would have been to have a nicer room and a few more comforts, I have nothing but praise for the public system.
 
I'll agree with some of the negatives, and a lot of the positives.
QMH is the BEST health care in HK - in terms of surgical care, diagnosis, treatment and outcome. All the public hoispitals suffer the same disease which is lack of $$. Lack of staff. Grumpy nurses, lack of personal care.
I do have to say that I have always found the maternity wards to be kept very clean (in over a dozen admissions). Half the problem is that you do tend to get passed from pillar to post, so no one really shows you around (ie where are th clean pyjamas? Where can I get snacks/milk/water? etc etc). Once you;'ve got the 'system' worked out, it gets easy to see what comes next.

I think it's good to be prepared, informed and realistic. YOu can be all these things and still stay positive!!
 
Ask lots of questions - because they do forget to tell you stuff. They forgot to tell me to "chart" when the baby fed and pooped and wet and all that - and the chart was all in Chinese so I couldn't figure it out myself! But I was kinda proactive in asking lots of questions and I read my own charts (when the nurses weren't looking because someone told me that they sometimes didn't like you doing that) - and if I was unsure about anything, I would ask them. I also figured out who the "kind" nurses were and who the "grumpy" ones were. It seemed to me that the younger they were, the nicer they were - and the old ones were the really cranky ones... so I would try to ask the nice ones because they'd be more kind and friendly and all that. I also went through all the drawers in the bath room and just took a change of clothes if I felt like changing (no idea if I was meant to or not, but I went through 3 changes of clothes a day ;) ).

There's the funniest sign in the bathroom there, it said "Please warp (sic) the maternity pad and put it into the rubbish bin with other rubbish" - it made me laugh every time I went in there ;) I even took a photo of it ;)
 
Dink said:
You get what you pay for, but some of us can't pay so just have to make the best of it! I am going to strictly not read this thread anymore since all the negativity is making me unecessarily stressed about something I have no choice over....

Thanks for your positive story Nicole, it was v. kind of you to post and your baby looks gorgeous, can't wait to meet ours.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say we didn't have insurance either but we found another way around it.
 
Matty said:
Dink - I hope you read this thread one more time.

It's amazing that people can have such different experiences at the same hospital.
I've had 2 public deliveries, and they were both positive.
I had no drugs, and found the staff at QMH during labour to be wonderful. I admit that I didn't like one of the midwives during my 2nd birth at PWH, purely because she kept badgering me to sign a consent form for an episitomy.
But, after I threw it across the room she got the message and was OK after that! ( by the way I didn't need one and I didn't tear).
Click to expand...

Hi Matty, I think it's wonderful that you were able to give birth without drugs in the public system but I also know from what you have written previously that your birth was quite remarkable in the fact that you were able to stay at home for so long before going to the hospital and that your labor was not extremely long. And that you didn't tear--well, that is wonderful too! I think that if your labor goes really smoothly in general (relatively quickly--not 2 days long) it may be easier to fit in with the public system. And good for you for "getting your point across"--I would probably throw things too if I was in your situation. :0):flower:
 
MLBW- I know that I laboured at home for the early parts of my labour, which definatley eliminated a lot of inconvienience. But at the end of the day, I've still given birth to 2 babies in the HK public system. I feel that it is very helpful to other women who may be concerned about doing so, to know that generally that their experiences won't necessarily be negative.

I know that you chose to return to your home country to give birth, rather than deliver here, but that wasn't an option for me, nor is it for many others.
I'm not really sure what it is you gain by being negative about something that you haven't experienced for yourself.
 
I just want to second what Matty has already said and reassure anybody reading this that is due to give birth in the public hospitals here.

I had my first baby at QMH last March and had a really positive experience, I think much of it is based on what your expectations are, for me medical care was the primary focus.

Perhaps that is what I convinced myself as there was no way we were paying for private delivery and no way to go home as I was still working (plus I didnt think it fair for daddy to miss so much time with our baby).

It really isnt that bad.... there are many of us mummies and babies around to prove it!
 
Matty said:
MLBW- I know that I laboured at home for the early parts of my labour, which definatley eliminated a lot of inconvienience. But at the end of the day, I've still given birth to 2 babies in the HK public system. I feel that it is very helpful to other women who may be concerned about doing so, to know that generally that their experiences won't necessarily be negative.

I know that you chose to return to your home country to give birth, rather than deliver here, but that wasn't an option for me, nor is it for many others.
I'm not really sure what it is you gain by being negative about something that you haven't experienced for yourself.
Click to expand...

I just lament the fact that HK is quite behind in their view of childbirth and it does mean that a lot of women end up with "emergency" c-sections that can be avoided (by not treating the labor process as an assembly line etc) and it does make it a non-option for those of us who concretely believe in natural, drug-free, family-involved, hospital births but couldn't promise that their labors would be speedy and convenient for hospital staff--as I noted before, mine was 43-hours long--something I doubt would be tolerated here in HK. But it was worth it and I do believe my son is healthier for it.

Above, Nic stated that it's not "that bad"--which I'm sure it isn't--and I never said it was "bad"--and as Nic also said, there are lots of mommies and babies to prove it (meaning they lived through it and were fine).

I'm just saying it could be a lot better and for me, personally, having the bleeding problems I did and then reading what I've read here and listening to the personal stories of countless friends who have gone through the public system--it's quite frightening to think that if I had stayed here things could have been very bad.

And, no, I have not given birth in QMH or any other public hospital in HK because I believed so strongly in natural childbirth with my husband present and assisting that I had to go through a lot more to return to my home country to give birth--it was by no means any easier than staying here and giving birth--in fact, if the option had been available, I would have.

Anyway, it's okay. I don't really think my full heart in writing this can be understood here but nevertheless I do feel that I should honestly voice my opinion although it goes contrary to what many others here believe and think.
 
I tend to think about birth as OUTCOME and birth as EXPERIENCE. Certainly in terms of 'outcome', HK public hospitals are very safe (ie. extraordinarily low rates of maternal and neonatal death - amongst the lowest in the world). Their surgical care is good.

Their personal care is almost non-existant. And they do have very high CS rates. SO the experience of birth is not so good - VB where labour is not managed well (ie. time limits on how long you can push, irrespective of baby's 'condition'; jump to CS at first sign of fetal distress etc etc). However, I am firmly in the camp of "Well, yes, it sucks, and the nurses are grumpy, but I want to focus on a healthy baby - not how they get there." I know others feel differently, and maybe if I had a more traumatic birth I would feel differently.

Just prepare to be ignored unless it's a surgical/medical issue. Save your fights with the nurses for the things that really matter, and focus on getting home in an relaxed a state as possible.
 
I disagree with the idea that birth experience has to be bad in public hospital.
I had some very unconventional requests for my births which were completely intervention free.
I think you just need to know what you want and ask for it.
Staff are just going to follow hospital policy unless you give them an alternative.
And while there are grumpy nurses I found that there are also really lovely ones too.
The midwife at my first birth ( her name was May but unfortunatley that's all I knew) was so nice that i wrote the hospital a letter afterwards praising her. Not sure if she ever saw it.

As for time limits, I pushed for 3 hrs with my first.
Which even Dr Dawkins told me was getting to his limits when I told him about it all afterwards.
My baby was fine and staff were happy for me to do so.
 
I think an important 'reminder' to those of us who are expats going into the public hospital system here in HK: this is not our 'home' territory. The hospital service at QMH was great. Was it like my previous births in the states? NO. What really matters here?? Look. Things are going to be different here. Food is different. Everything looks different (like time warpish!) There are language barriers at times that seem difficult, even frustrating. BUT. If you go in with the right attitude, if you are expecting great medical care at the hands of trained professionals (even though they might not have the bedside manners you might prefer), if you are gracious but firm, you WILL have a positive experience. You should take a hard stance on the things that are important and be willing to be a bit flexible on the details. If I can say anything of my experience, I was treated better/friendlier than the local patients - it was like my baby and I were a bit of a novelty. Not to every nurse of course, but I never felt like I wasn't welcome or I wasn't given adequate care. (Oh, and on a side note: THANK YOU CARANG for mentioning the bread/peanut butter - it WAS a life saver for me!) :)
Best to all of you with impending deliveries this new year... hopefully you too will be able to look back and wonder why you spent so much time worrying about all of this while you enjoy your newest blessing.
 
dbmum - what is 'local'? If you've grown up here to any extent, then you certainly have the right to be treated no worse than a woman who is ethnic Chinese.
Whilst there are definitely good things, I have found (with more than a dozen admissions at QMH) that the 'rules' (particularly visiting hours!) were broken regularly by Chinese women, but as soon as my DH wanted to stay 10 minutes over time (becasue he hadn't even seen the baby yet!) we were told off. I have had many experiences which tell me that it's not a cse of expecting 'special' treatment, but fair and equitable treatment. I don't expect to be treated better because I am not Chinese, but I do not expect worse treatment, either.
And it has nothing to do with expectations - I have never been in a public hospital in another country, so my only expectation are based on good medical care.

I don't think any realistic person minds some language issues - but behavioural issues are different!
 
Each of us has our own idea of what is important to the labour process and each has its own merit. For me, though I did not give birth at QMH (I had mine at Matilda), QMH saved my kid - the public system because it had access to a machine that could beat air into my daughters lungs and revive it...something that not even Matilda, a wealthy private hospital had. Now, for me, QMH is a great hospital to have a kid in and where I would have my kid next time. The reason is clear and simple ...their medical staff are experienced and their facilities are the best in Hong Kong. They have a group of doctors and nurses that are so darn proud of what they do that do not even accept pastries and cakes as a token gift. Like HappyV, my expectations are based purely on medical care, and the medical care that I've seen bring back my daughter. Hey - my husband was there during my labour and afterwards, but what good did that do for my daughter? not any...at least in my case....it was good for me to have him there, but then again the mid-wife was the one walking me through the procedure, not my husband....I firmly believe that if your labour is going to be "normal" with no problems at all, then yes, do it the natural way, do whatever it is that makes your heart feel happy, however, if there is any chance there is going to be a problem - please do not do it the "normal" way and go where they have the medical facilities to ensure the survival of your kid. Who cares about bed side manners? Who cares about whether the nurses are nice or grumpy? You're only at the hospital for 3 days and then you're out of there. Honestly, apart from breast feeding every 2 hours the first few days, you're only sleeping - do you REALLY need your husband there? I didn't have my husband there...he was at QMH checking on our daughter, I was ALONE at Matilda and NOT brestfeeding! I think the focus should be on providing the best circumstance for your baby to be born - what you decide will depend on the circumstance of your pregnancy and the predicted difficulty (or not) of your labour.
 
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