foreign education vs HK education

[kacoak]

Dear all,

What is your opinion whether foreign education like US education is better than Hk education even my kid study in the international school in HK??

We are fairly new to Hong Kong, but from what I've heard and seen, education in Hong Kong is competitive world wide. As an overseas Chinese who's lived in the States since college, I have met my fair share of graduate students from HKU who are doing excellent research programs. Interestingly enough, none of these students came from an international school, though....

You mentioned that you are in Texas at the moment. If your question is specific to your current situation, then I'd say it depends on your priority on what you deem important in your children's education. For instance, if you'd like your children to be educated in a bilingual English/Mandarin school, there are private schools like Yew Chung (they have one in Silicon Valley, I believe) for them. Public schools can offer excellent education and greater diversity of student body than private ones, although I'm reading a lot about the state education budget cuts in Texas at the moment. TAMS (Texas Academy of Math & Sciences) is a great option if you children are mathematically inclined.

One thing I do like about schooling in the States is that there are options other than hard sciences. Before college I came from a fairly traditional asian school that emphasizes heavily on math and sciences. I discovered a wealth of humanities subjects during freshman year (and passionate professors), and was excited about them. But when it came to choosing a major, I went back to the sciences. At that point I'd wanted to work in the States, and getting a US working visa is easier with such majors.

Bottom line is, I really do think that education is a journey and each child's is going to be different because of their different personalities and also personal/family circumstances. I believe that planning is important, but do allow for extra wiggle room. Case in point: a lot of my fellow international students chose to major in computer science due to the tech boom, but by the time we graduated, the bubble's burst, and many ended up with no job. If you think that learning Mandarin is important for the future, by all means expose your children to as much Mandarin as possible when they are young, but the world may be a different one 15 years from now. If they still need to learn Mandarin as an adult, they'll enroll in a program and do it. If they end up in Switzerland and need to learn German/French, they'll learn it then, as necessary.

As I said, I'm new in HK so can't comment about the education here or living here in general, but I'll definitely make the best out of what's available, given this is where our family is at the moment, and therefore, home.

 

[carang]

Carang, I always find your comment to any post (I have read a lot of your responses to many posts) very rude and unprofessional. I have seen you surely picked a lot of fight with many members in this forum.
I don't "pick fights" with anyone. I simply called your initial POST, not YOU, racist. If you read it, you will see I am correct. If you wanted to know about education in HK, then ask... don't cloud the issue with a racist diatribe against mainlanders.I wont enroll my kid to a day care run by this type of people and cant believe anyone would. Do you dare to tell us what is the name of the day care you said you are running??Many people on this forum know exactly which playgroup centres I run. And just so you know, most of my classes are full anyway, with very long waiting lists, so you wouldn't be able to join even if you wanted to...As a matter of fact, Thanka has even worked for me.

I hope if you are not sure what you are talking about, you better dont reply to any thread.You are right of course, 16+ years in the education field in hong kong, I don't know what I am talking about when responding to a thread about education.

- sounds like you are the only one who knows the HK intl school is very competitive. You cant get a seat for your son so he is now studying in a local school in HK. Dont ever try to inject negative thinking to other members here. Why it is not competition?? The kids are all competiting for the limited space!! So what??!! The world is full of competition anywhere!!!I didn't even apply for international school for my child. I didn't WANT him to go to an international school and only learn English (he gets that at home), I wanted him to learn Cantonese so he could get by in HK and be able to speak to his grandparents, so we enrolled him in a local school. as for competition? if you didn't want to know what it was like or you already knew, then why are you asking a public forum?

- Not only Chinese international school can teach chinese. There are many other international schools like Yew Chung and RC has good mandarin program too. Even other internationals school has daily mandarin lessons that can help kids to learn practical chinese.Yes, of course you are correct. Most international schools here have a daily Mandarin lesson. Personally, I think that a person needs more than 30 minutes/day in order to become fluent in a language.... but of course, you know better....
As for RC and Yew Chung, yes, they do have reputations for having strong Mandarin programmes... I never said they didn't.

- Many local HK and mainland students are studying in international school now which is even better as they all speak cantonese or mandarin to each other in some extent which can help to boost the kids' chinese language To which international schools are you referring?

- You dont only learn Cantonese/mandarin in school, there are many extra-curricular activities which is cantonese oriented outside of teh school. When the kids are in HK, they are in the cantonese speaking environment that they can pick up cantonese very quickly just by talking to friends and relativesyes, I realise that... but YOUR post wasn't about THAT.... your post was about education in HK vs USA....but i would disagree that "they can pick up cantonese very quickly".... your child is already 5. if he/she is not already speaking cantonese, it will be much more difficult to pick it up. my kids have always taken their extra-curricular activities in cantonese in order to boost their language while learning something else at the same time..... however, the increase in their language abilities does NOT come from those classes, it comes from being immersed in cantonese at school.


again, just because you didn't like my initial post regarding your views on mainlanders, does NOT mean i don't know what i'm talking about. i do NOT believe that i know everything about education in hk. i DO believe i know quite a bit about it, though.

i am very rarely out and out rude. i am blunt, straight-forward and candid. if you don't like it, don't read my posts. however, the number of people who have thanked me for my input over the past 6(?) years on this forum far outweigh your negative comments.

 

[zhumgg]

Carang, I always find your comment to any post (I have read a lot of your responses to many posts) very rude and unprofessional. I have seen you surely picked a lot of fight with many members in this forum.
I don't "pick fights" with anyone. I simply called your initial POST, not YOU, racist. If you read it, you will see I am correct. If you wanted to know about education in HK, then ask... don't cloud the issue with a racist diatribe against mainlanders.I wont enroll my kid to a day care run by this type of people and cant believe anyone would. Do you dare to tell us what is the name of the day care you said you are running??Many people on this forum know exactly which playgroup centres I run. And just so you know, most of my classes are full anyway, with very long waiting lists, so you wouldn't be able to join even if you wanted to...As a matter of fact, Thanka has even worked for me.

I hope if you are not sure what you are talking about, you better dont reply to any thread.You are right of course, 16+ years in the education field in hong kong, I don't know what I am talking about when responding to a thread about education.

- sounds like you are the only one who knows the HK intl school is very competitive. You cant get a seat for your son so he is now studying in a local school in HK. Dont ever try to inject negative thinking to other members here. Why it is not competition?? The kids are all competiting for the limited space!! So what??!! The world is full of competition anywhere!!!I didn't even apply for international school for my child. I didn't WANT him to go to an international school and only learn English (he gets that at home), I wanted him to learn Cantonese so he could get by in HK and be able to speak to his grandparents, so we enrolled him in a local school. as for competition? if you didn't want to know what it was like or you already knew, then why are you asking a public forum?

- Not only Chinese international school can teach chinese. There are many other international schools like Yew Chung and RC has good mandarin program too. Even other internationals school has daily mandarin lessons that can help kids to learn practical chinese.Yes, of course you are correct. Most international schools here have a daily Mandarin lesson. Personally, I think that a person needs more than 30 minutes/day in order to become fluent in a language.... but of course, you know better....
As for RC and Yew Chung, yes, they do have reputations for having strong Mandarin programmes... I never said they didn't.

- Many local HK and mainland students are studying in international school now which is even better as they all speak cantonese or mandarin to each other in some extent which can help to boost the kids' chinese language To which international schools are you referring?

- You dont only learn Cantonese/mandarin in school, there are many extra-curricular activities which is cantonese oriented outside of teh school. When the kids are in HK, they are in the cantonese speaking environment that they can pick up cantonese very quickly just by talking to friends and relativesyes, I realise that... but YOUR post wasn't about THAT.... your post was about education in HK vs USA....but i would disagree that "they can pick up cantonese very quickly".... your child is already 5. if he/she is not already speaking cantonese, it will be much more difficult to pick it up. my kids have always taken their extra-curricular activities in cantonese in order to boost their language while learning something else at the same time..... however, the increase in their language abilities does NOT come from those classes, it comes from being immersed in cantonese at school.


again, just because you didn't like my initial post regarding your views on mainlanders, does NOT mean i don't know what i'm talking about. i do NOT believe that i know everything about education in hk. i DO believe i know quite a bit about it, though.

i am very rarely out and out rude. i am blunt, straight-forward and candid. if you don't like it, don't read my posts. however, the number of people who have thanked me for my input over the past 6(?) years on this forum far outweigh your negative comments.

- Hahahaa...so what is the name of your child care??

- I never ask about competition in the HK education system in this thread

- I thought you said many times in other threads that you cannot apply for international schools for your son because they are too expensive for you and the waiting list is too long. You actually toured many of them but you just cannot afford it.

- Seems like your friend - HappyV is the biggest racist here. I said that I dont dislike mainlander, I just dont like uncivilised behaviour but I agree it can be from anyone and anywhere.

Again, I welcome any comment and advice but in a nice, humble and diplomatic way. I learned about this since I was a child.

 

[carang]

international schools ARE expensive. no, i did not tour any of them. when it came to decide. we considered esf and local schools. we did not tour any esf schools. we decided based on what we wanted language-wise for our kids.

i have NEVER met happyv.

 

[Gataloca]

If you want to know the name of Cara's playgroup, just check her profile. So bad that she doesn't have any running in TKO. I would have loved to place my baby in her playgroups.

 

[HappyV]

Just as a point of interest, how does the original poster know whether or not I am from HK? I could be Chinese, European, Canadian, African.........
If you ask about moving a child from the US to HK, the the competition for school places is a huge factor, and part of the reality of the situation.
Again - ironic that you should ask for contributers to be humble, seeing as your tone is anything but.
Would you like to continue to call myself and carang lyers? We have both assured you that we have never met and I have no idea which playgroups she is involved with. Just because we agree and we differ in opinion from you, does not mean that there is a conspiracy or that I hate HK people. I love HK, but as you yourself pointed out, certain behaviour is not likeable. Or is it only ok to be critical of mainland Chinese behaviour, and not HK Chinese behaviour?

Getting back to your original questions - I was thinking about this last night - it would really help to know how much of either Cantonese/Mandarin your child spoke. To a large extent, this, rather than securing a place, is the biggest factor. If your son speaks no Cantonese then I would not recommend a local school, because by the time you relocated here, he would be six (?) and has already missed a good chunk of that real 'sponge' time where children acquire language almost unthinkingly. As you say, of course he can learn later, but schooling is also about socialisation and it would be very difficult for him to make friends in a local school without these language skills.
If he speaks some Mandarin, or he speaks no Chinese, then ESF or International/DSS schools would be better for him.
Just one point - you've mentioned RC as having an excellent Mandarin program. If you mean Renaissance College, then I should point out that the program at RC is mirrored at Discovery College, and very similar to the CHinese programs offered at the other ESF schools; the biggest difference being that at middle school level, RC/DC offer the MYP curriculum and the other ESF schools (mostly) offer GCSE. All students graduate with the IB.
So - curriculum should also be a factor in your decision. The reality is that local schools (esepcially the top tier schools) are reluctant to accept children with no Chinese (Cantonese) as they have a certain number of set subjects that are examined in that area. With family in the system you may be able to circumvent this, but it is worth considering.
I am sure you are aware of the different curricula offered in the city - just off the top of my head, we have the new HK secondary diploma, IB, A levels, Australian, Ontario, US liberal-arts style.

So, if you gave us some detail over your son's language background, we might be able to suggest some more specific options that would suit. Even two schools with the same language background and curricula can have very different learning and social cultures, and this really is information that can change very rapidly, and talking to people who used to know or go to the school may not have the current picture.

 

[zhumgg]

international schools ARE expensive. no, i did not tour any of them. when it came to decide. we considered esf and local schools. we did not tour any esf schools. we decided based on what we wanted language-wise for our kids.

i have NEVER met happyv.

Hmmm...what should I believe?? You are saying completely different things in different threads. Obviously, very contradicting. Here I randomly attached several of your old posts which you said you toured many intl schools and what stop you enrolling your son is the price and waiting list. I dont know about other members but I would only like to hear comment/advice from a credible person. Thanks for your effort anyways. This will be the last time I reply your post.

http://www.geobaby.com/forum/thread151189.html

http://www.geobaby.com/forum/thread149801.html

http://www.geobaby.com/forum/thread149781.html

 

[HappyV]

I also wanted to add - if you hope that your son will co to college outside of HK, then the guidance staff at the International schools do have a wealth of experience in helping students be selected into the the best course. The top tier schools have this experience as well, but they still have a huge proportion of students study within HK.
I really hate the idea that the college fate of a five year old should already be a factor, but the reality of the fast paced, competitive nature of education in HK is that these are the kinds of things you should be considering.

 

[zhumgg]

If you want to know the name of Cara's playgroup, just check her profile. So bad that she doesn't have any running in TKO. I would have loved to place my baby in her playgroups.

sorry, I dont find any name of the child care/playgroup mentioned in Carang's profile. Absolutely nothing. Can you just tell us here??

 

[thanka2]

Think you may be taking Cara's posts the wrong way...she has lived here a long time and is very familiar with child- related things in HK.

Regarding HK 's international schools, it really is a big " if" you can get a spot for expat children and others. There just are not enough spots at all, with priority at many international schools being given to students whose parents employers (or in some cases parents themselves) purchase very expensive debentures, which in many cases now doesn't even guarantee a spot, just a place on the wait list.

As many have noted, there are many factors that go into where a child should be educated, and there are some good things about going to school in HK, but the unfortunate reality in HK is that options are often limited by which schools have room and how much one can afford to pay for a place in a full international school.

Zhumgg,

I'm glad that you found my post useful.

I do agree that you may be taking carang's words in the wrong way. I just say this because when I first started on this forum (years ago!) I did not like carang very much at all. (She knows this.) In fact, I used to have "cat fights" with her all the time. Really. But, then I guess I got over myself and then eventually I met her in person and now we're good friends. I realized we actually have a lot in common--especially personality. Yes, she is a very intense person (much like myself!) but she really does know what she's doing as far as education and kids go. She's been doing that non-stop for the past 15 years or so and has seen and experienced a lot in HK. She also understand the local culture pretty well I think as she is married into it and she works with children and their parents from the culture day-in and day-out.

I don't think that she sent her children to a more local school because they couldn't get accepted to an international school. She just chose that path for her childrens' education. There are quite a few other foreign families that I personally know that also chose to send their children through the local stream for various reasons. These children are quite successful and some have recently finished secondary school after attending a local school all of their school years! (which I find to be amazing!) Parents speak little or no Cantonese as well!

As far as the schools that carang owns and operates. I taught in both of them this summer and LOVED the experience. I also sent my child to a well-known (advertised on this website) playgroup in HK when he was small and really thought it was a good-quality program but compared to that playgroup, I much prefer carang's approach. There is a huge waitlist for both of her schools with parents pleading to get their children into the group as soon as possible. All of this is through word of mouth only--parents come, experience the group with their children and can't help but tell their friends. They do little or no professional advertising! It's really amazing, I think. cara, herself, is almost like a local "mini celebrity", I've come to find out--especially in early childhood education circles. I will seriously try to put my youngest child in her playgroup as soon as she is old enough. It was a fantastic experience.

Having said all this, I don't really know the particulars of the disagreement that's going on here. All I know is that carang is a good lady who runs a good program and there are many who can attest to that.

Thanks for reading this. Hope you continue to get lots of good input to your question.

 

[peachylin]

Hi zhumgg,

I think I fairly understand your concern about giving the best education to your child as any other parent in this forum want. A lot of posters have actually shared wonderful insights that are definitely helpful to you. I hope things are now clearer and the right decision is yours to make (especially with thanka's post - Thanka, I always get a LOT from your posts!).

I don't often post but I read this forum daily. It is very informative and pleasant. However, I find your later replies a little too aggressive. I can accept this happening in Geoexpat, but reading these things in Geobaby is a little too much for moms to handle. Posters here do not pick fights and they are always helpful, so stay calm

If you do come back to HK, these are the very same people who can become your friends because they are a good bunch I found all my HK friends in this forum.

Happy weekend, zhumgg.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using GeoClicks Mobile

 

[thanka2]

Hi zhumgg,

I think I fairly understand your concern about giving the best education to your child as any other parent in this forum want. A lot of posters have actually shared wonderful insights that are definitely helpful to you. I hope things are now clearer and the right decision is yours to make (especially with thanka's post - Thanka, I always get a LOT from your posts!).

I don't often post but I read this forum daily. It is very informative and pleasant. However, I find your later replies a little too aggressive. I can accept this happening in Geoexpat, but reading these things in Geobaby is a little too much for moms to handle. Posters here do not pick fights and they are always helpful, so stay calm

If you do come back to HK, these are the very same people who can become your friends because they are a good bunch I found all my HK friends in this forum.

Happy weekend, zhumgg.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using GeoClicks Mobile

I really LOVE Peachy's comment here. It's true. The ladies on Geobaby will always have each others' back even if they disagree on certain points. I know that on certain topics I come off as a total jerk (because of my passion mostly) but I think people have been willing to overlook certain things here and still help and care for me. This forum is actually very close-knit. Unlike a lot of online forums, Geobaby is a place where mothers in HK come to connect with other mothers--and many times those connections do materialize and become real-life friendships. Peachy and I were part of the same due-date club (our babies are only like a week or two apart in age) so we know each other in real-life.

This isn't unusual. There are a lot of women who know each other in real-life on this forum so it's not just about "picking sides" or "conspiracy theories"--in general, I would say that the women on this forum are actually friends. It's helpful to keep that in mind when commenting--just assume that everyone here could potentially be real-life friends with everyone else. No need to try to "pick sides" and get one poster to disagree with another. That's not really going to get you very far on this site. Hong Kong is actually a very "small pond," you'll find. Very easy to play "7 Degrees of Separation" here! Ha!

For example, I know nicolejoy from church where I met her when we both first moved back to HK and I know purpleflower because I took pilates from her and nicolejoy and purpleflower know each other because they were part of the same due-date club and their oldest children are close in age. I know another lady (can't remember her username) because I was giving her advise and being a sounding board about hiring a helper and that lady actually knows nicolejoy as well. I met lalligirl when we both had to do a long professional development course together last year for our work--but I didn't know she was on Geobaby. Then when I got pregnant again I joined a due date club and found out that my classmate from real life was actually lalligirl in the due date club. I met Koan in a restaurant in Yuen Long when both of our babies were about 6-months-old and then I met nashua852 through Geobaby and talked with her on the phone preparing for a meet-up and realized we both knew Koan in real-life. My son ended up going to nashua852's house for a weekly informal playgroup for probably about a year! In conversation, we realized that we both used to work for the same company, only in different divisions! I met onogirl through work and then realized that she and Koan were essentially neighbors in real-life. When Shenzhennifer was moving from Shenzhen to Hong Kong I tried to help her and her husband find a good place to live--ended up loaning her my Baby Bjorn and a Baby Sling and we met up for dinner when she got here. She ended up attending my son's birthday parties for the past two years and she was one of my top "gossip buddies"--we would always chat about the drama on Geobaby! We would get our boys together for playdates at her place in Tsuen Wan. She and nicolejoy met up to go strawberry picking out here by our place--a place I had suggested. I miss her a lot as she left for Canada in July.

So, in general, we ladies, no matter what our opinions or feelings are or how much we get on each others' nerves are all like sisters on this forum. Sometimes sisters make us angry but at the end of the day we still care for each other.

Love you, ladies!

 

[carang]

Zhumgg,

I'm glad that you found my post useful.

I do agree that you may be taking carang's words in the wrong way. I just say this because when I first started on this forum (years ago!) I did not like carang very much at all. (She knows this.) In fact, I used to have "cat fights" with her all the time. Really. But, then I guess I got over myself and then eventually I met her in person and now we're good friends. I realized we actually have a lot in common--especially personality. Yes, she is a very intense person (much like myself!) but she really does know what she's doing as far as education and kids go. She's been doing that non-stop for the past 15 years or so and has seen and experienced a lot in HK. She also understand the local culture pretty well I think as she is married into it and she works with children and their parents from the culture day-in and day-out.

I don't think that she sent her children to a more local school because they couldn't get accepted to an international school. She just chose that path for her childrens' education. There are quite a few other foreign families that I personally know that also chose to send their children through the local stream for various reasons. These children are quite successful and some have recently finished secondary school after attending a local school all of their school years! (which I find to be amazing!) Parents speak little or no Cantonese as well!

As far as the schools that carang owns and operates. I taught in both of them this summer and LOVED the experience. I also sent my child to a well-known (advertised on this website) playgroup in HK when he was small and really thought it was a good-quality program but compared to that playgroup, I much prefer carang's approach. There is a huge waitlist for both of her schools with parents pleading to get their children into the group as soon as possible. All of this is through word of mouth only--parents come, experience the group with their children and can't help but tell their friends. They do little or no professional advertising! It's really amazing, I think. cara, herself, is almost like a local "mini celebrity", I've come to find out--especially in early childhood education circles. I will seriously try to put my youngest child in her playgroup as soon as she is old enough. It was a fantastic experience.

Having said all this, I don't really know the particulars of the disagreement that's going on here. All I know is that carang is a good lady who runs a good program and there are many who can attest to that.

Thanks for reading this. Hope you continue to get lots of good input to your question.

thanks for the kind words, thanka.

i do think it's funny that we disagreed about so many things in the beginning, because as you know we actually agree about so many things now!

as i said, i NEVER intentionally am rude. i am straight forward, candid and yes, opinionated (who could ever have guessed?). i do not accept any form of racism and i think that after i commented on the original post regarding the racism evident in it, the OP has decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater and not consider anything that i have written.

sometimes, the problem with forums is that we are not professional writers, so what we write can convey a different feeling to what is meant.... i honestly try to "take the feelings" out of it when i read many posts, because i may attribute feelings that are not actually being expressed. however, racist comments are NEVER acceptable... no matter what.

 

[carang]

i actually forgot that we went to the norwegian school... it was such a long time ago. it was the only international school that we looked at(we looked at it as much for ourselves as for friends of ours who were considering relocating here and that was the school they wanted)... but like i said, we decided solely based on language acquisition that we wanted for our kids... i never said that we hadn't considered other options, i just said what we decided. and yes, it IS expensive to send kids to international schools... i never said it wasn't....

in the end, i felt it would be easier for our kids to learn chinese if they were schooled in that language. they would have english at home, so that wasn't a concern for me.... however, if we had sent our kids to an international school, we would have had an extremely difficult time trying to teach the kids cantones. they would not have gotten it at school or at home... which only left employing tutors. i didn't believe that my kids would become fluent by learning from tutors.

 

[thanka2]

sorry, I dont find any name of the child care/playgroup mentioned in Carang's profile. Absolutely nothing. Can you just tell us here??

I think if you just do a little bit of digging on the site, you'll be able to find it but it's not likely that anyone is going to come out and tell you because you seem very hostile toward carang and it seems like you might use that information to try to libel her and her business which is unfortunate.