howardcoombs
Registered User
Then you have not met any parents with kids in top local schools.
Find some parents with kids in StPauls Convent, Belios and similar schools and they will show you portfolios.
foreign education vs HK education
- Thread starter zhumgg
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Then you have not met any parents with kids in top local schools.
Find some parents with kids in StPauls Convent, Belios and similar schools and they will show you portfolios.
Good morning from the US,
My kid is going to be 5 soon so he will be in K3 in local school while P1 in international school. It is very difficult to know whether they are suitable for which system (esp when they are so young) unless we let them try in both. I myself grow up in HK and study in local school my whole life. I love HK (that why I care whether our city is filled with civilized citizen), my lanugage and the Chinese culture. I got "A" in Chinese history
. Whether local school will give good exposure really depends on whether it is a top tier local school. The top tier ones has a lot of joint school function, overseas exchange and extra-curricular activities. As for knowledge, it's not only depends on school/teacher, but also the attitude of the students themseleves toward learning. We are now in Austin, texas, south of the US, FYII dont dislike mainlander, I just dont like uncivilized behaviour but I agree, this can be anyone and anywhere. From my experience in HK and 3 years as expatriate in Shanghai, I just withness mainlanders have more of this behaviour. Anyways, if we decide to come back to HK, international school will be the option rather than local school as I myself expereince how high pressure it will be studying in local system. I dont want my kid to study like this.
I am seriously considering whether to bring my kid back to HK because I really want them to study Chinese language, Chinese history and understand Chinese culture. This is important to me and benefitial to them in the long run. But this is difficult to acheive in the US
HappyV, thank you for your private message and sharing
HappyV, thank you for your private message and sharing
The top tier schools NOT ONLY look at academics, they are serious on the portfolio as they are looking for all rounded individual but not those only hide in the library. There is a news just published in both english and chinese newspaper, a straight "A" student was rejected by King's College (top tier school in HK) regardless of his bright academic result and the fact that he was the top 10 students (based on academic result) of the King's College Old Boys' Association Primary School
carang
Registered User
if you come back and enroll your child in an international school (1) you may not actually get a place, they are VERY hard to get....not because of "competition", but because there are too many students and not enough spaces and (2) you can pretty much forget your child learning to speak/read/write chinese. it's not going to happen unless they go to the chinese international school and then they'll speak mandarin, not cantonese.
A bit about our situation and what I think:
I am a "westerner", educated in the USA in a small public school. I was writing 20-page research papers with full peer-reviewed reference sources when I was 17-years-old and reading and analyzing difficult classical literature. My teachers were tough! I studied both AP (advanced placement) Biology and Chemistry courses which included real-life science (like monitoring a nearby river and running water tests etc.) I also was taking black/white photography from a well-known and published professional photographer as an independent study and I learned how to do electric wiring and historical archiving--some of the work I did is in a collection in the Library of Congress (along with my classmates). I had a very eclectic education that was free. I went to a state university (even though I was accepted to others) and also felt I got a top-rate education even though my school was small and not famous. To me, education is and always has been about 1) the heart and ability of the teacher 2) the effort and interest of the student 3) learning how to learn--developing the skills and attributes (like curiosity for one--which is not really encouraged in many local HK classrooms, unfortunately).
But, my life in the USA taught me more things outside of the classroom that many children probably won't get exposure to here in HK. We lived near to nature and were able to explore more. My dad had a large organic garden which I helped tend with him--that was a great education! There was simply more room. So, education, to me isn't all about what happens inside the classroom walls.
Are you thinking of sending your child to boarding school? I know that in some places you can send your child when they are in primary school. I would never, ever send my child to boarding school because I don't want to be separated from my children--I think it is my responsibility, honor and duty to be a daily influence in their lives--even when they are teenagers. I don't think the possible rewards of that situation outweigh that component--for me, that is.
I studied Mandarin Chinese in university and lived in China in a fully language immersion environment (ZERO English) for a year. I understand Mandarin quite well and speak semi-fluently. I can even write some Chinese as all of my exams were conducted in Chinese. Some of my dearest and closest friends are Mainland Chinese. I've traveled all over the country on the train (that's how you really get to know who Mainlanders are, I think). I've lived in a couple cities--one in the far-far north and one in the far-far south. I've had my share of experiences with Mainland Chinese people. Some days I hated it and some days I loved it. Overall, I'm still enchanted by Mainlanders, although I find many of their particular habits annoying and even disturbing (like the one time I was standing on a crowded Mainland bus and I had to stand for about an hour and a man sneezed all over my face and arm--lots of snot came out--made no effort to cover his face--and I had nothing to wipe off with so I just kind of had to stand there--that was pretty disgusting).
My husband is Hong Kong Chinese--grew up here all of his life--was locally educated and then went to Australia and studied for 4 years in university. He used to work in a factory as a manager in Shenzhen up until a year ago. I used to work there as well and I used to stay in a Mainland Chinese dormitory on the factory premises.
We have two children. Our eldest child is in K2 and is attending an SKH local kindergarten nearby where we live. I am satisfied with his kindergarten and he loves it. My son is very clever (if I do say so myself!) and for us only a portion of his education actually takes place at school. He learns a lot through doing different activities--especially with my husband. The most important thing right now is that he loves learning and he's curious--as long as he can maintain these throughout school, he'll do fantastic.
The problem is--and I know this as a primary school teacher in Hong Kong. Often what happens in HK primary school classrooms is the opposite of inspiring students to learn. What happens is students get burdened with a heavy load of work which kills the joy of learning for them. At the same time they are being taught to memorize correct answers and not really think for themselves. This is a widespread issue in HK, I think. I cannot speak about the international schools here because I don't know very much about them.
So, what we have done is choose a school that has a unique environment. The school where my son studies is much different than many larger schools in HK. The children spend more time outdoors. They keep a garden there. The school has a lot of good programs for the children including great English and Mandarin lessons. And I like the teachers. There are other "mixed" and foreign students who attend as well.
I think that no matter what you choose you have to select the school based on your "gut feeling" and not only because of a reputation or because you think your child will learn this or that there. Choose the school that fits your child. Don't force your child to fit to the school. Every school has a unique environment, culture and feel--you have to choose the one that lines up with what is important to you and your child.
But, no, we won't be moving back to the States just so my children can go to school there. We might, however, choose another country--thinking about South America.
I am a "westerner", educated in the USA in a small public school. I was writing 20-page research papers with full peer-reviewed reference sources when I was 17-years-old and reading and analyzing difficult classical literature. My teachers were tough! I studied both AP (advanced placement) Biology and Chemistry courses which included real-life science (like monitoring a nearby river and running water tests etc.) I also was taking black/white photography from a well-known and published professional photographer as an independent study and I learned how to do electric wiring and historical archiving--some of the work I did is in a collection in the Library of Congress (along with my classmates). I had a very eclectic education that was free. I went to a state university (even though I was accepted to others) and also felt I got a top-rate education even though my school was small and not famous. To me, education is and always has been about 1) the heart and ability of the teacher 2) the effort and interest of the student 3) learning how to learn--developing the skills and attributes (like curiosity for one--which is not really encouraged in many local HK classrooms, unfortunately).
But, my life in the USA taught me more things outside of the classroom that many children probably won't get exposure to here in HK. We lived near to nature and were able to explore more. My dad had a large organic garden which I helped tend with him--that was a great education! There was simply more room. So, education, to me isn't all about what happens inside the classroom walls.
Are you thinking of sending your child to boarding school? I know that in some places you can send your child when they are in primary school. I would never, ever send my child to boarding school because I don't want to be separated from my children--I think it is my responsibility, honor and duty to be a daily influence in their lives--even when they are teenagers. I don't think the possible rewards of that situation outweigh that component--for me, that is.
I studied Mandarin Chinese in university and lived in China in a fully language immersion environment (ZERO English) for a year. I understand Mandarin quite well and speak semi-fluently. I can even write some Chinese as all of my exams were conducted in Chinese. Some of my dearest and closest friends are Mainland Chinese. I've traveled all over the country on the train (that's how you really get to know who Mainlanders are, I think). I've lived in a couple cities--one in the far-far north and one in the far-far south. I've had my share of experiences with Mainland Chinese people. Some days I hated it and some days I loved it. Overall, I'm still enchanted by Mainlanders, although I find many of their particular habits annoying and even disturbing (like the one time I was standing on a crowded Mainland bus and I had to stand for about an hour and a man sneezed all over my face and arm--lots of snot came out--made no effort to cover his face--and I had nothing to wipe off with so I just kind of had to stand there--that was pretty disgusting).
My husband is Hong Kong Chinese--grew up here all of his life--was locally educated and then went to Australia and studied for 4 years in university. He used to work in a factory as a manager in Shenzhen up until a year ago. I used to work there as well and I used to stay in a Mainland Chinese dormitory on the factory premises.
We have two children. Our eldest child is in K2 and is attending an SKH local kindergarten nearby where we live. I am satisfied with his kindergarten and he loves it. My son is very clever (if I do say so myself!) and for us only a portion of his education actually takes place at school. He learns a lot through doing different activities--especially with my husband. The most important thing right now is that he loves learning and he's curious--as long as he can maintain these throughout school, he'll do fantastic.
The problem is--and I know this as a primary school teacher in Hong Kong. Often what happens in HK primary school classrooms is the opposite of inspiring students to learn. What happens is students get burdened with a heavy load of work which kills the joy of learning for them. At the same time they are being taught to memorize correct answers and not really think for themselves. This is a widespread issue in HK, I think. I cannot speak about the international schools here because I don't know very much about them.
So, what we have done is choose a school that has a unique environment. The school where my son studies is much different than many larger schools in HK. The children spend more time outdoors. They keep a garden there. The school has a lot of good programs for the children including great English and Mandarin lessons. And I like the teachers. There are other "mixed" and foreign students who attend as well.
I think that no matter what you choose you have to select the school based on your "gut feeling" and not only because of a reputation or because you think your child will learn this or that there. Choose the school that fits your child. Don't force your child to fit to the school. Every school has a unique environment, culture and feel--you have to choose the one that lines up with what is important to you and your child.
But, no, we won't be moving back to the States just so my children can go to school there. We might, however, choose another country--thinking about South America.
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Carang, I always find your comment to any post (I have read a lot of your responses to many posts) very rude and unprofessional. I have seen you surely picked a lot of fight with many members in this forum. I wont enroll my kid to a day care run by this type of people and cant believe anyone would. Do you dare to tell us what is the name of the day care you said you are running??
I hope if you are not sure what you are talking about, you better dont reply to any thread.
- sounds like you are the only one who knows the HK intl school is very competitive. You cant get a seat for your son so he is now studying in a local school in HK. Dont ever try to inject negative thinking to other members here. Why it is not competition?? The kids are all competiting for the limited space!! So what??!! The world is full of competition anywhere!!!
- Not only Chinese international school can teach chinese. There are many other international schools like Yew Chung and RC has good mandarin program too. Even other internationals school has daily mandarin lessons that can help kids to learn practical chinese.
- Many local HK and mainland students are studying in international school now which is even better as they all speak cantonese or mandarin to each other in some extent which can help to boost the kids' chinese language
- You dont only learn Cantonese/mandarin in school, there are many extra-curricular activities which is cantonese oriented outside of teh school. When the kids are in HK, they are in the cantonese speaking environment that they can pick up cantonese very quickly just by talking to friends and relatives
I hope if you are not sure what you are talking about, you better dont reply to any thread.
- sounds like you are the only one who knows the HK intl school is very competitive. You cant get a seat for your son so he is now studying in a local school in HK. Dont ever try to inject negative thinking to other members here. Why it is not competition?? The kids are all competiting for the limited space!! So what??!! The world is full of competition anywhere!!!
- Not only Chinese international school can teach chinese. There are many other international schools like Yew Chung and RC has good mandarin program too. Even other internationals school has daily mandarin lessons that can help kids to learn practical chinese.
- Many local HK and mainland students are studying in international school now which is even better as they all speak cantonese or mandarin to each other in some extent which can help to boost the kids' chinese language
- You dont only learn Cantonese/mandarin in school, there are many extra-curricular activities which is cantonese oriented outside of teh school. When the kids are in HK, they are in the cantonese speaking environment that they can pick up cantonese very quickly just by talking to friends and relatives
I always find your comment to any post (I have read a lot of your responses to many posts) very rude and unprofessional. I have seen you surely picked a lot of fight with many members in this forum. I wont enroll my kid to a day care run by this type of people and cant believe anyone would. Do you dare to tell us what is the name of the day care you said you are running??
I hope if you are not sure what you are talking about, you better dont reply to any thread.
- sounds like you are the only one who knows the HK intl school is very competitive. You cant get a seat for your son so he is now studying in a local school in HK. Dont ever try to inject negative thinking to other members here. Why it is not competition?? The kids are all competiting for the limited space!! So what??!! The world is full of competition anywhere!!!
- Not only Chinese international school can teach chinese. There are many other international schools like Yew Chung and RC has good mandarin program too. Even other internationals school has daily mandarin lessons that can help kids to learn practical chinese.
- Many local HK and mainland students are studying in international school now which is even better as they all speak cantonese or mandarin to each other in some extent which can help to boost the kids' chinese language
- You dont only learn Cantonese/mandarin in school, there are many extra-curricular activities which is cantonese oriented outside of teh school. When the kids are in HK, they are in the cantonese speaking environment that they can pick up cantonese very quickly just by talking to friends and relatives
A bit about our situation and what I think:
I am a "westerner", educated in the USA in a small public school. I was writing 20-page research papers with full peer-reviewed reference sources when I was 17-years-old and reading and analyzing difficult classical literature. My teachers were tough! I studied both AP (advanced placement) Biology and Chemistry courses which included real-life science (like monitoring a nearby river and running water tests etc.) I also was taking black/white photography from a well-known and published professional photographer as an independent study and I learned how to do electric wiring and historical archiving--some of the work I did is in a collection in the Library of Congress (along with my classmates). I had a very eclectic education that was free. I went to a state university (even though I was accepted to others) and also felt I got a top-rate education even though my school was small and not famous. To me, education is and always has been about 1) the heart and ability of the teacher 2) the effort and interest of the student 3) learning how to learn--developing the skills and attributes (like curiosity for one--which is not really encouraged in many local HK classrooms, unfortunately).
But, my life in the USA taught me more things outside of the classroom that many children probably won't get exposure to here in HK. We lived near to nature and were able to explore more. My dad had a large organic garden which I helped tend with him--that was a great education! There was simply more room. So, education, to me isn't all about what happens inside the classroom walls.
Are you thinking of sending your child to boarding school? I know that in some places you can send your child when they are in primary school. I would never, ever send my child to boarding school because I don't want to be separated from my children--I think it is my responsibility, honor and duty to be a daily influence in their lives--even when they are teenagers. I don't think the possible rewards of that situation outweigh that component--for me, that is.
I studied Mandarin Chinese in university and lived in China in a fully language immersion environment (ZERO English) for a year. I understand Mandarin quite well and speak semi-fluently. I can even write some Chinese as all of my exams were conducted in Chinese. Some of my dearest and closest friends are Mainland Chinese. I've traveled all over the country on the train (that's how you really get to know who Mainlanders are, I think). I've lived in a couple cities--one in the far-far north and one in the far-far south. I've had my share of experiences with Mainland Chinese people. Some days I hated it and some days I loved it. Overall, I'm still enchanted by Mainlanders, although I find many of their particular habits annoying and even disturbing (like the one time I was standing on a crowded Mainland bus and I had to stand for about an hour and a man sneezed all over my face and arm--lots of snot came out--made no effort to cover his face--and I had nothing to wipe off with so I just kind of had to stand there--that was pretty disgusting).
My husband is Hong Kong Chinese--grew up here all of his life--was locally educated and then went to Australia and studied for 4 years in university. He used to work in a factory as a manager in Shenzhen up until a year ago. I used to work there as well and I used to stay in a Mainland Chinese dormitory on the factory premises.
We have two children. Our eldest child is in K2 and is attending an SKH local kindergarten nearby where we live. I am satisfied with his kindergarten and he loves it. My son is very clever (if I do say so myself!) and for us only a portion of his education actually takes place at school. He learns a lot through doing different activities--especially with my husband. The most important thing right now is that he loves learning and he's curious--as long as he can maintain these throughout school, he'll do fantastic.
The problem is--and I know this as a primary school teacher in Hong Kong. Often what happens in HK primary school classrooms is the opposite of inspiring students to learn. What happens is students get burdened with a heavy load of work which kills the joy of learning for them. At the same time they are being taught to memorize correct answers and not really think for themselves. This is a widespread issue in HK, I think. I cannot speak about the international schools here because I don't know very much about them.
So, what we have done is choose a school that has a unique environment. The school where my son studies is much different than many larger schools in HK. The children spend more time outdoors. They keep a garden there. The school has a lot of good programs for the children including great English and Mandarin lessons. And I like the teachers. There are other "mixed" and foreign students who attend as well.
I think that no matter what you choose you have to select the school based on your "gut feeling" and not only because of a reputation or because you think your child will learn this or that there. Choose the school that fits your child. Don't force your child to fit to the school. Every school has a unique environment, culture and feel--you have to choose the one that lines up with what is important to you and your child.
But, no, we won't be moving back to the States just so my children can go to school there. We might, however, choose another country--thinking about South America.
Thank you again. Your reply gave me a lot of insight for more thinking. I never think about putting my kid in boarding school too as I never want to separate from them. I want to be with them all the time
Just want to share some more, thanka2, I agreed with many of your points like how important it is for the kid to learn with curiosity and passion. School is not the only place that a kid can learn. My kid is now studying in a small local school in Austin with very loving teachers and he loves it. btw, when I work for an international company in HK and SH, my boss (American) can speak native (really fluent) mandarin and read simplify Chinese. He told me he started to learn mandarin in the university in the US. So this is another example that people can learn good mandarin even they did not start as a kid. The more important is your interests and attitude in learning
Think you may be taking Cara's posts the wrong way...she has lived here a long time and is very familiar with child- related things in HK.
Regarding HK 's international schools, it really is a big " if" you can get a spot for expat children and others. There just are not enough spots at all, with priority at many international schools being given to students whose parents employers (or in some cases parents themselves) purchase very expensive debentures, which in many cases now doesn't even guarantee a spot, just a place on the wait list.
As many have noted, there are many factors that go into where a child should be educated, and there are some good things about going to school in HK, but the unfortunate reality in HK is that options are often limited by which schools have room and how much one can afford to pay for a place in a full international school.
I find it quit strange that someone from outside the city, who does not work in education, thinks that they know better than people on this thread who have worked in the sector for decades.
Your chances of getting a school place for 2011 are very, very small - I would say less than one percent. term here has started already. There may be the odd place that comes up during the year but I know of at least one International School who (by numbers) has 30 children on the list for every place, and the pressure is greater at the lower primary end of the spectrum.
And, as I said - schools look first at academic standing, then use portfolios. I have worked with students and schools from both international/local (including some of the 'top tier' schools in either system) and I can tell you that students with great portfolios are not accepted unless they are also academically up to scratch. But you do get students who are the opposite - academically amazing, but not very 'well rounded' - and isn't that part of the role of a 'top tier' school? To take a student and develop them into being well rounded?
I also have two very good friends who took on Mandarin as adults, so I do understand that learning can be a lifelong pursuit - but that's not the same as talking about education for a young child.
I forget which poster it was who said that only at Chinese International will a child learn Chinese/Mandarin - just simply not true. And it's good that you are aware of this.
It does sound though, zhumgg that you are the one who is out to disagree with anyone who is not just saying "Yes' to you. You asked for opinion, and you've gotten it. I do not know Cara personally, or which school she runs, but there is nothing that I would disagree with. And it is quite hypocritical to say she picks fights when you are doing the same.
I wish you luck, but your chances are small.
Your chances of getting a school place for 2011 are very, very small - I would say less than one percent. term here has started already. There may be the odd place that comes up during the year but I know of at least one International School who (by numbers) has 30 children on the list for every place, and the pressure is greater at the lower primary end of the spectrum.
And, as I said - schools look first at academic standing, then use portfolios. I have worked with students and schools from both international/local (including some of the 'top tier' schools in either system) and I can tell you that students with great portfolios are not accepted unless they are also academically up to scratch. But you do get students who are the opposite - academically amazing, but not very 'well rounded' - and isn't that part of the role of a 'top tier' school? To take a student and develop them into being well rounded?
I also have two very good friends who took on Mandarin as adults, so I do understand that learning can be a lifelong pursuit - but that's not the same as talking about education for a young child.
I forget which poster it was who said that only at Chinese International will a child learn Chinese/Mandarin - just simply not true. And it's good that you are aware of this.
It does sound though, zhumgg that you are the one who is out to disagree with anyone who is not just saying "Yes' to you. You asked for opinion, and you've gotten it. I do not know Cara personally, or which school she runs, but there is nothing that I would disagree with. And it is quite hypocritical to say she picks fights when you are doing the same.
I wish you luck, but your chances are small.
Obviously, you must be friends of carang which you will deny. I think people can read and judge for themselves who is picking fight here and her history of posting rude comment and have numerous fight with other members in this forum.
I NEVER SAY I am better than anyone in knowing everthing in HK education system. It's just you put words in my mouth!! But I would like to remind you NOT only people work in education who live in HK now is the only one who knows about the education system in HK. There are tons of information on the internet, from HK friends, from other parents,the staff in school...etc. As I said, this is a forum for sharing and information. Everyone has different experience, know different people and information that we can share.
You are NOT the only one who work in international/local school. I dont know how long you have been working in the education sector in HK but I feel strange that some like you dare to say your own opinion can represent the whole education system here. Every school has different culture and admission criteria. It's NOT a must they consider academic result over a portfolio. Top tier school is NOT only focus on academy neither. How many prizes they won in joint-school debate and sports competition...etc, do you know???? I can tell you now my aunt is the principal of a famous top tier local school. Unlike people like you who think you are always right, my aunt is always very professional and diplomatic in giving advice and comment. While I take her comment and advice very seriously and sincerely, she suggest me to go listen to different of view from parents, students, staff of the school...etc. I dont normally only listen to one person. I am very open to different opinion and that's why I have been researching a lot by different means.
I just cant stand people like you who make things up, put words in other people's mouth, twist things and be super arrogant to think that you and your friend - carang are the only one who know everything and every thing you said is right. What a big joke!!!
I never say I am applying the school year 2011. Just call the target schools and talk to the staff, anyone can easily figure how much chance you have left if they apply now. But the whole point of this thread is NOT about the chance of applying intl school this year nor the admission criteria of local school. I hope you can open your eyes and look clearly. Dont you dare to be unrespectful and getting personal on other people's discussion, you will just get the same from other people.
Actually, my post was very calm.
You are the one calling me a liar. And I think you have missed the whole point of my post.
You had a go at Cara because she disagreed with you - my post was saying that if you only going to respect the opinion of the people who agree with you, then there is no point in asking for the opinions of strangers.
I am not going to get into a conversation over who you know and what they said - apart from anything else, I could go tier for tier with you on that. What I will say is that I have been involved with admissions for several schools in HK, and none of them rank portfolios more importantly than academics. It may be that there is a particular student who offers something so unique to a school community that they are willing to overlook a less than stellar academic standing: but I would think that this happens so rarely as to be irrelevant in a conversation centered around how admissions work in this city. Despite the rhetoric of many schools, this is an exam driven culture - nowhere more so than in the top tier local and international schools.
You came in asking for opinions, and you have received advice from people who (I would imagine) are parents, teachers and others working in the education sector. Disagree if you will, but it is not fair or reasonable to make personal attacks (as you have done with carang, and now me) just because you disagree with the opinion, or it is not what you want to hear.
You are the one calling me a liar. And I think you have missed the whole point of my post.
You had a go at Cara because she disagreed with you - my post was saying that if you only going to respect the opinion of the people who agree with you, then there is no point in asking for the opinions of strangers.
I am not going to get into a conversation over who you know and what they said - apart from anything else, I could go tier for tier with you on that. What I will say is that I have been involved with admissions for several schools in HK, and none of them rank portfolios more importantly than academics. It may be that there is a particular student who offers something so unique to a school community that they are willing to overlook a less than stellar academic standing: but I would think that this happens so rarely as to be irrelevant in a conversation centered around how admissions work in this city. Despite the rhetoric of many schools, this is an exam driven culture - nowhere more so than in the top tier local and international schools.
You came in asking for opinions, and you have received advice from people who (I would imagine) are parents, teachers and others working in the education sector. Disagree if you will, but it is not fair or reasonable to make personal attacks (as you have done with carang, and now me) just because you disagree with the opinion, or it is not what you want to hear.
I am NOT interested in reading your post. Dont want to waste my time. I just forgot to tell you if you hate HK people so much, if you really think most of HK local is like this, you would be better off avoiding HK altogether and go back to your home country!!! You should just leave!!!!
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