Desperate for advises and comments from other people!

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After i read through, though i dont know how to share my advices or comments, i want to share bits of my life too....this story can be long... if you dont have patience for my so called "noisence" it's okay to skip it...

I'm a Singaporean Chinese born and live in Singapore all my life. My circle of life in Singapore is really small, as a only child, so you can imagine. However, do not get me wrong as a spoilt brat. My family was poor at first and my parents doesnt love me blindly. And so, at the age of 17, i opt to go to Australia to further my studies. And yes i'm in Sydney. I just couldnt tell you how much i love the life there (though i do admit that at that age, i love the freedom i can get more).

But when i graduate, i was thinking should i just stay in Sydney to work? At that time job market is not so good there and i just think that i had leave home for too long, away from my parents, so i went back to S'pore to work.

Later on, i got married to a HK guy and settled down here in Hong Kong. Believe me, i hate and cant get used to HK at that time. Though i can speak some cantonese, still i cant get used to them. Why they must do things this way, that way and etc.

At that time, my hubby and I both just rent a small flat and living on our own as his parents had retired and back to mainland china for more spacious life. He had to work full time, and study another degree. The 1st year here is the darkest period of my life, i was so stress that i loss so much weight that my parents wanted me to go back home with them. However, i tell myself that i choose to come here and i must adapt not waiting for the whole world to adapt to you. And all the while, i found a job through my hubby's help and start to work after getting my HKID.

So, one year get better than the other.....

At the end of 2009, we decided, we're more ready in every way, so we decide it's time to have a baby. And to our suprise it came really soon. In Valentine's eve, i found that i was pregnant, but i was bleeding as well. So i got a blood test in the hospital to check and blah blah blah. In the end, i miscarriage at very early stage.

It is from there i started to well.. you know... experience another darkest period of my life..

I then follow Dr Patrick Chan (very popular among Geobaby, but i didnt know he is good and popular at that time, as he is referred by the private hospital i went to, guess i'm really lucky) to get pregnant again. So, almost 11 months including several cycyle of injecting myself (my body doesnt work too well with taking the tablets, clomid?) i finally got pregnant again and give birth to a baby girl last year.

I know what Constancefaith talks about missing out little things for her girl. My hubby and i is lucky to have a good helper at home taking care of our girl. I suppose now i know how many work mums feel, the guilt and etc.

Now the in laws issue come, i dont agree in things that my in laws do, their way of showing love and etc. They came from China frequently now and help to take care of my girl. I remember i look stress upon post nantal check up with Dr Chan. All i remembered, the most important that he said was "you're the mum and the baby is yours, so you should be in charge"

So, now i try to solve any problems regarding my girl with my in laws. Yesterday, i just had a talk with my hubby. I think i'm now a mum already so i must be more responsible to what i do and so on.

I know i'm not as mature as many here, but i can see that that constancefaith is still young, so much younger than me.

And i fully agreed with what they all told you to start your little family without your parents and do everything yourself. When you look back, you'll realize you become stronger and learn so much more.

About leaving parents behind, i leave my parents behind too. And my grandpa is now sick in the hospital. Though my baby is not more than 3 months, i brough along her and visit him in the hospital. Maybe, to many ppl, it is not a big deal. But being chinese bringing baby that young on a flight is a big thing. My MIL is not very happy about me doing that. But i dont care. I'm the mum and the baby is mine. I cant just leave her with the helper and MIL to look after.

Of coz, there's many so called "accidents" that happen there, but hey, i pull through.

So, Constancefaith, if you decide to do something you can. Just tell yourself you can do it!

Good Luck. And thanks to those who read my "noisense":flower:
 
constancefaith, in many ways my situation is similar to yours. my husband and i have our own property (as wedding gift from in-laws) but we have never lived in it. instead we rented it out and have stayed (before kids) in a small apt (500sq ft) as a couple and then moved in with my parents after our first kid. we did have the option of moving back into own apt. but in a way we decided against it because (1) my parents live in a big apt and during the day my mom was very lonely in a quiet apt - moving there would bring more "noise" to the house (2) my parents wanted us to use the rent as our savings. we still live with my dad (mom passed away) and older daughter is 2 1/2yrs old...the plan was for us to stay with them for 2 yrs only and then move - but circumstances change and plans get changed.

i'm sure your parents are helping your family out and do not expect anything in return. it sounds like they are very typical chinese parents, similar to mind...like your in-laws, mine have contributed NOTHING! and my hubby says my parents treat him more like a son than his own parents...it took my hubby a while (1 year roughly) to get used to the idea of living "under" his in-laws...a taboo in Chinese culture - there was so much gossip about how we weren't financially well off, etc. but for my family - there are many more pros than cons...for example
1) i've managed to save up money through renting our apt.(can you rent out your place in Australia?)
2) we've managed to work full time AND study part time (me and my hubby - in fact we both finish this June) because I had my mom there for my kids even though my helpers are good
3) when we have been out of a job, there is not so much stress about finding one (of course we still tried very hard)
4) the family bond is actually stronger - it all comes down to communication..knowing how to listen and talk to each other - you guys are young, we were much older when we got married...you are the mediator between your hubby and parents - somethings you just got to make sure you don't tell him, somethings he vents about you can't let your parents know and don't get upset about it. my mom always said my husband was lazy and too comfortable - but hey, you know in the bottom of your heart that he is working AND studying at the same time! I've done that for 5 years - it's not easy!
5) most importantly though - your parents are giving you the time to build a solid foundation for your own family. sit down with your husband to write a 5 year plan....i've done a couple of those - you don't necessarily follow it to the T but it gives you a sense of direction and will help you become more clear about your own path. you have something that many do not have - it's time and a stable environment. it is great for your child, take advantage of it. you want your own family - your independence, time to grow up what now...that time will come, believe me, and when it is there, you will be more than ready. appreciate what your parents are doing and just let some things slide...focus on the important issues that make a difference if they are unresolved - pick your battles.

Your parents sound exactly like mine - they are just trying to help you build a good foundation so that you will have a solid backing when you do in fact move out on your own. don't lose focus - you and your hubby just need to set goals and work towards them...realistic goals - you have a daughter to raise together, and her needs come before yours (at least that's what I believe)... I hope I'm making sense - I just want you to know to really appreciate all your parents are doing, even though it might be hard to take sometimes. Believe me when you finish your studies many more doors will open for you, particularly being so young - as long as you have the will there is a way (kind of corny but true) you've got all the support in the world - as for your in-laws...after 4years of marriage, i have finally learnt to turn a blind eye!
 
Your poor husband. Between work and study, he's often busy from 9am - 10pm. Including a commute, that's a 14-hour day. He's also the father of a small child and probably doing homework, too. No wonder he has a hard time waking up. His wife -- who, by her own description, lounges around at home with an "easy" family job, and who admits to being "lazy" and "materialistic" (your words, not mine) -- complains he's not "manly" enough?

As a Chinese woman myself, I think you have an unfair double standard.

I'm sure it wasn't on purpose, but maybe you didn't realize how hurtful this thread might be to the 90% of other expectant moms / moms. Read around. There are women who can't afford their preferred treatments or hospital, or who are raising children 1000s of miles from family, or who are torn between wanting to be with their babies or paying the bills.

Most "office lady" working moms earn less than the HK $20,000 of "spending money" you and your hubby get. How do you think they feel when they read your post about the 4 servants? Maybe to get some perspective, toss a little cash or volunteer time to a charity dealing with poor HK families? How about this one? http://www.soco.org.hk/artwalk2009/index.htm

I'm not dismissing your problems. Everyone has a right to complain. But you contradict yourself.
You can't be independent, and enjoy the luxuries of living off your parents at the same time. You can't be simultaneously here and in Australia. You decided to have a kid young and before you were done with school. That's fine, but now you have to make choices.

Nobody can be a stay-and-home mom, a working mom, and a student all at the same time. Considering that you have servants and drivers, surely you can get a part-time job or take an extra course, and still have time with your child?

The ever-wise Thanka is right. It's not a matter of Sydney or HK. You can be independent anywhere. In Oz, there aren't live-in amahs at your beck and call for HK $4,000 a month. My London girlfriends are well-paid professionals who still drop the kid off before work, grab groceries after work and do dinner and laundry themselves.

I'm sorry for this tough love. I'm not trying to be mean. I wish you all the best. Count your blessings, as they say. Good luck!
 
Love gracey and thanka2 for writing becoz I had been without helper and living quite poor with hubby at first. I know what it is like.
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No offense taken but I would love to clear up by saying I never said my husband is not "manly" because he's not earning enough or doing enough. We both think that it is an issue that we're living under my parents, hence his self-esteem dropping because he's not the sole provider. We never had helpers back in Sydney and we did not ask for the 4 helper we currently have and if you did read throughout my posts I did ask/tell my mother to cut down on the helpers because we just don't need that many.

When I refer to materialistic, it goes to the both of us and regarding baby stuff. And to be specific, my cut on the pay goes to mortgage 50% and 25% on "security fees" of the apartment we bought. The rest is on transportation to university and saving up for the next year's university fee. On the outside we have a luxury life of driver, helper, cars w/e. But every single month we're so stressed out, and we can't talk to anyone because it might "shame" my parents.

**You do realize those 4 helpers are not requested by or hired by us right?** Also, please don't view me as complaining... because that is the least I am trying to do, I love to receive other perspectives regarding my issue to broaden my options and views. I have never said I wanted/enjoys the luxuries of living off my parents hence why I would like to "cut the umbilical cord" and have our own little family with no helper. I figured it was probably the easiest way for us to go independent by going back to Australia, as we don't have his family and mine are 4566 miles away from us. We will have no choice but to do it our own way and not rely on anybody.

Our intention was to move back to Sydney as soon as daughter turns 3 months old. Hubby changed our decision and I'm not blaming him, but at that time he thought it was the best for us.
 
Of coz, there's many so called "accidents" that happen there, but hey, i pull through.

So, Constancefaith, if you decide to do something you can. Just tell yourself you can do it!

Good Luck. And thanks to those who read my "noisense":flower:
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Thank you taysty, and I'm very sorry to hear about your miscarriage. I've had one prior to my daughter and funny thing is my gynecologist actually told me I'll never be able to have kids when I was 13. So they are both a blessing to me.

I'm not even close to mature yet compare to the rest here, but I am trying to mature up and live MY life. It has been too long satisfying my parents and living by their means and meeting their expectations since a girl.

Hopefully you and I one day can move back to Sydney and let our kids enjoy the environment there... soon!
 
I believe your husband is right...this is the best for your family in the long run.

In some ways it is challenging, but through this process you will mature and become the person your parents want...a mature, responsible being - I truly believe that's what they want for you. You did say that your parents became well off after starting there own business...with that past, I would say that they want to minimize the hardships for you (being protective because they went through the "hard times") so that you can do the best to build your own family smoothly (that's why they are providing you with so much help - even though you told them it's not necessary)...they are giving you what they perceive as the "best" environment for you and your husband to build your family together - here or in Sydney - they are just trying to make getting the basic foundation a smoother process. hope i am making sense here...
 
leslie, you are making perfect sense. even so, i disagree with you 100%. i think it may come down to cultural differences though.... there is no way i would live with my parents having them pay for everything if i have my own family and a way to make my own income. no way.

when my brother and his family decided to move to canada from the uk, they lived in my mum's basement while my brother worked and went to university for his second degree. they paid my mum rent and paid for their own food/toys/car payments and all other expenses. the rent they paid was only $300/month, but at least they were contributing and basically paying their own way with a little help from mum.... to me, that is VASTLY different to what is going on with the OP. if that was happening, then i'd agree with you, leslie, it IS best for the family. BUT right now, it seems that the OP and hubby are not contributing to the household in any way and in fact are making use of the 4 helpers and driver, eating parent's food, enjoying parent's generosity with regards to rent-free etc. this doesn't help them. it only makes them more dependent. whereas what my mum did helped my brother and his family while they worked towards independence.
 
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I agree with carang 100%. It is one thing to keeping feeding fish to a person and keep them happy and fed (overfed) and quite another (a true gift) to teach a person to fish and hence be self sufficient. As I said earlier, many Chinese children in well to do households never gain independence because no matter what they do (or so they think) they will never be able to afford the life to which they have become accustomed. In a word they are seduced into dependency.
Also, I think that your parents comments about your hubby are not helping him or his self esteem, and you getting upset at him when he doesn't 'do what they want' (because to be quite frank he/you/your family has to because he owes them (even if it is only in your mind or in your parent's mind)......think about this). He is not lazy, he is very young, he works 14 hours a day, he is tired, and he is beaten down. The backchat doesn't help him when he is being stretched so thin. Your parents should find someone else to employ and criticise, and perhaps see if this other person will see it as 'love'. Not helpful in the least. He needs support and he needs it now.
 
Carang, I would just like to clear things up so there are no misunderstandings.

Out of 4 helpers, we only rely on one - whose contract is under my name. I pay for her. And the rest plus the driver are for my mom. As I've said earlier, I contributed money to both of my parents and they will not accept no matter what.
They visits everyday, from breakfast till dinner. We buy our own food whenever they don't come in. We "contribute" by helping out in the house, me doing the accounts, making sure the helpers follow my parents instructions, checking what sort of groceries we're low on and hubby contributes by fixing around The house.
So that is why I am mad at him when he doesn't.
Please don't make my parents sound like they're slave drivers. Tell you what, my husband does go to work everyday but usually 30mins-3hours late to work.
I admit he is tired but hear me out, he's also playing video games till 4am.
I never thought I wouldve post that but I just don't want my parents to be judged like that.
And my parents knows why he's late. In one month average hubby will call in sick at least 4 times, just because he's been playing games till morning or because he just feels like it.
My parents doesn't even criticize in front of him! Even if my dad kindly asked hubby if he could fix something up for him because my dad broke his leg just before Dec last year - he still hasn't done it. He took a holiday from Dec 1 - last week.
I had to constantly remind him that he has assignments due.

So if you ask me, are we enjoying the luxuries of my parents' "generosity"? Not me. I know hubby does because he bosses them around with an attitude more than my parents does.

I'm sorry if I sound worked up, but to categorize my parents as the murderer and hubby as victim. I can't stand that, sorry.

Perhaps my parents have been "making things worse for us" but I know for sure that is not their intention. Whether or not this is a cultural thing, the moment I started this post I've already pointed out and stated that we want to be independent. Maybe to other people this is a luxury, to us its hell.
I'm going to say this one last time, as a daughter, I already feel **** enough not being able to support my parent financially after I got married, it feels even worse when they feel the need to take care of MY family. The main reason we stayed was to spend some time together, since I've been away home for 5 years. It was not our intention to be depending on them and we don't intend to stay any longer anyway.

Actually told mom about our plan to move into our mortgaged apartment and she was quite upset about not being able to see my daughter everyday. It was a moment I didn't want to face but we need our own lives.

I do wonder why it took me this long to want out. Multiple reasons I guess, one major factor is my apartment hasn't completed renovating but definitely not because "this life is luxurious".
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Yes, Leslie, you are making perfect sense. My parents are typical Asian parents, they don't want their kids to go through what they've experienced growing up. They tend to provide a life that they've dreamt of.
That is the best intention, however, i think it really depends on the child on its outcome. Some turns out grateful and works even harder, some becomes the famous "yi sai jo".
I appreciate their help, and for so long. But I think hubby will need a wake up call cos he is relying on my parents every time he runs low on cash. The only time I have ever asked them for money was when I didn't even have the money to buy formula because hubby spent 3k on his mobile (went over data usage) and then further worsening the situation by going over data usage on my phone again for 5k!!!

Anyhow, I believe my parents raised me into a responsible person (at least I didn't abort my daughter like hubby told me to). We're financially tight, but we will make it work..
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Constancefaith, well now that you tell us he calls in sick is often late, then it does put a very different light on the whole equation. Even if I were your parents I would be pretty annoyed. Perhaps your hubby has some growing up he needs to do too.....he's now the father of a young child and he needs to start to stand on his own too feet without falling back constantly his safety net.
It is true what you wrote that your parents are trying to spare you hardship but sometimes as I've pointed out it doesn't go the way they/you planned/wished. Perhaps if you didn't have them backing you you and hubby might have pushed yourselves a lot harder and been able to be in a position where you could help support your parents/ feel more pride in yourself.
I, for one, do not believe you are living the life you want even if it does seem luxurious, as I've said I've seen some very miserable grown up children out there. There is something to be said about achieving something for yourself and the pride you will feel when you do it. Imagine your daughter, do you think she will feel better about herself if you do her homework for her or if she toughs it through a little hardship and conquers the task herself. This is just your life magnified, sort of. Good luck.
 
I've been following this thread with interest. At first I was like, 4 helpers, what the...? But now as I hear more and more details and facts, it is becoming increasingly clear that perhaps your husband is the problem. You both are quite young, but he sounds downright immature, to a destructive degree.
You got pregnant at 19, that's super young. Young to be pregnant, have a baby, get married, and turn into adults. That's really tough. Moreover, I can totally see why your parents have been 'helping' you guys so much. Ok, it's a bit over the top with the help, but they were probably really blindsided that all of a sudden their little girl was with child and husband. They also probably felt a loss of face, and what better way to make things up is to completely take care of you all. When things are done under their roof, they can see the benefits and it can make them feel good that you've not had to struggle with your child so much. Culture aside, I think they really want to take care of you right now (only 20! when i was 20 I was out traveling the world and getting into loads of mischief), and make sure your daughter is ok, and give you and your husband the best start that they see fit before you get out in the world by yourself more.
I think they are saints for not saying anything to your husband about his antics. Video games till morning? Calling in sick all the time? Showing up late constantly? I would have fired his ass long ago. It must be really hard for our parents to be keeping quiet about this. They must really love you and your daughter.
I don't know if going back to aus is a great idea, actually. Your husband might be just as much of deadbeat there as he is here, and there he has all his friends. Dude still needs to grow up, but sounds like he needs a bit of a kick in the but to get it started.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with taking yournparents financial help, while younare still in school and supporting a baby. But perhaps to make you feel more independent or less guilty, you can ask them to help you move into a normal sized flat, in a location that you want. One helper is fine, for sure. $20k is more than enough if you don't have to pay rent(we get by on less than that after rent, and I am just expecting my second baby, no helper, but i don't work or go to school). You might find things improve for all of you here when you can make the calls a bit more. As for your husband, sounds like he needs to find a new job. I would ask him to quit and find something he is more enthusiastic about. Then maybe earning his own, even PT money, will make him feel better about his role in the family. And grow him up a bit.
$6k is pretty extravagant for kindergarten. There are a lot more that are cheaper than that. Maybe you can start looking around and get your girl enrolled in a decent school yourself. If the parents want to assist in tuition awesome, why the heck not?
 
constancefaith said:
We are living in one of my parents' house in the New Territories

We don't pay for rent, food, our 4 helpers, gas, car insurance etc., electricity, water, internet etc. etc. The only expense we have is our daughter's diapers, formula, snacks, clothing, let's wrap up by saying our daughter's stuff.
Although I am working under my mother's company, I really just stay at home and look after my daughter and occasionally help out with paper works and such.
Husband goes to work Monday to Saturday 9am-6pm and school from 7pm-10pm.


- I feel because I have all the help available around the house, I became 'lazy' in taking care of my daughter
- Financially, we can't survive in Hong Kong. Although my parent got my daughter in Victoria education, how can we survive on paying 6K a month when we're only earning 20k?

Now, we lived and studied in Sydney before 2009 July. I decided to come back to Hong Kong to give birth to my daughter as my family is here to take care of me
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what you said in your initial post is now COMPLETELY different to what you are saying now.....
 
constancefaith said:
Carang, I recently bought an apartment under mortgage in the Gold coast. It is approximately 1000sq, which is plentiful for hubby, me, and baby plus helper.


I turned 19 when I found out I was pregnant and my mom bought that apartment for us..
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so, did you buy the apartment or did your mum? or are they different apartments?
 
constancefaith said:
I know I am childish for wanting to stay at home and take care of my daughter while getting paid doing very little. It's very hard to leave my daughter... I don't want to miss out on her little things.

I guess I can get a full time job or part time AND deal with my mom's stuff. I just need to be rational and mature up to stop wanting to stay at home with my daughter.


But I must say, having a driver and helper does make life a lot easier... and lazier too.
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seems to me that you don't like the situation, but you aren't willing to do very much to change it. life is too easy right now for you and although some independence would be nice...it's far nicer to have people at your beck and call and be able to work when you want for how long you want so that you can take care of your little one.

EVERY working mother feels pangs of guilt when they go out to work! that's life. you have a child to support, so you do what is necessary.
 
I agree with Shenzhennifer on this. You got pregnant and married so young. Before your parents eyes you are still their little girl. And how can they withdraw their help if you don't earn enough to pay for your baby formula and your husband seems to be quite irresponsible and immature?

And telling the truth, I don't think moving to Australia would help if your husband does not change his attitute. He is now blaming on you parents for making him lazy. He will find other thing to blame on when thing does not turn the way he want. Think about it. You are short of cash and your husband still think that you are rich and over spend on the damn cellphone? Does he know that he has a family to mantain?
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constancefaith said:
I'm guessing everyone does agree that Australia is a better place for a child to grow up in then?
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I think it would be impossible to answer this question because:

1. Many people here have never lived in Australia. I have never even visited Australia although my husband studied there in university and my younger brother lives there and is married to an Australian woman.

2. "Better place to raise a child"? It all depends on one's priorities. Raising a child in Hong Kong offers benefits that raising a child in Australia can't and vice versa. For example, by raising our son here, he gets more exposure to Hong Kong culture (which is part of his heritage) is able to learn and speak Cantonese, Mandarin and English and gets to develop a relationship with my husband's parents. If we move to another country we would have to give up some of these things. Everything is a bargain in life, I think--you have to decide what is personally important to your family at a certain time.
 
gataloca, the point is he DOESN'T have to "maintain his family"... her parents are doing that for them. $20k is enough to raise a child and live on your own, granted, it's not a huge amount, but it is certainly doable IF you are willing to sacrifice the "good life"... it seems to me that neither of them want to do that. they pay lip-service to "being independent" but are unwilling to make the step. they would rather: spend time with the baby (cannot fault for that, every mum wants that), have the helpers, have the cushy job with the parents (unlikely ever to get fired, even for piss-poor behaviour), have a 10,000' house with driver and gardener etc.

while i understand that her parents are doing what they think is best, to me, it is a recipe for disaster. the marriage won't last...it's bound to fail in this environment.
 
carang said:
gataloca, the point is he DOESN'T have to "maintain his family"... her parents are doing that for them. $20k is enough to raise a child and live on your own, granted, it's not a huge amount, but it is certainly doable IF you are willing to sacrifice the "good life"... it seems to me that neither of them want to do that. they pay lip-service to "being independent" but are unwilling to make the step. they would rather: spend time with the baby (cannot fault for that, every mum wants that), have the helpers, have the cushy job with the parents (unlikely ever to get fired, even for piss-poor behaviour), have a 10,000' house with driver and gardener etc.

while i understand that her parents are doing what they think is best, to me, it is a recipe for disaster. the marriage won't last...it's bound to fail in this environment.
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As I continue to read the responses to OP, I am more and more convinced of two things.

1. Most of the responders are essentially saying the same thing (giving similar views or advice)

2. The OP has an answer for every responder and it all kind of points to the fact that she enjoys talking about the situation but probably isn't ready to make the necessary (difficult) changes to actually see a dramatic improvement/change in her situation.

This leads me to think that we've all pretty much said enough--it's simply decision time for her and her husband and by choosing to not make a decision they actually choose to continue the same path.

I hope that everything works out for them.
 
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