Would you consider having surveillance camera at home?

[Hunter]

call center
- your conversation with callers will be recorded

Fashion / luxury shops
- mystery shoppers constantly come to check on the frontline sales team.
- cameras are installed in the shops.

Office
- your computer is secretly monitored
- in some traditional office, you have to mark down your onduty and offduty time.
- even in some modern office environment, you get a company security card, each time u get in and out of office, u use the card to open the door, and in fact all these are recorded.
- in some cases, you are required to sign in your online communication account such as msn, skype, etc, to let your supervisor know that you are onduty/offduty.

Most work environments
- a supervisor / supervisors are PRESENT to check on you


So, should we all stand up and go for a demonstration against all these because we want our respect and privacy at work?

Just imagine that the employer's home is the DH's office, and they should just work under supervision like all other employees in the world.

 

[Matty]

I've worked in situations before with cameras.
It's a different feeling when you work somewhere where there may be a camera in certain areas, for example cash registers, you tend to forget they are even there.

But when you are in an enviroment where you are the sole employee and there is camera surveillance on you constantly, it just feels wrong.

I worked in HK as an agency nanny for 6 years, and the one time that I did encounter a camera, I felt that my work actually suffered as I had the creepy feeling of being watched all the time.
Maybe that would of changed over time, but I felt that it wsn't something I could've dealt with longterm.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't install cameras, that's a personal choice, but I think that it is something that should be agreed upon at the start of employment.

 

[Little Monster]

I am a full time mommy without a DH, so no cameras at home.

If in case I need to install cameras, I will definitely tell the DH I am hiring, even if not yet installed, I will tell her that I have the plan to do so. I will assure her that everything is open, I won't secretly spying on her.

A friend of mine has installed cameras at her home, and every time she watches, her DH will show her the baby to the camera and say hi to mommy. I really can't imagine the life that I can't see the chubby face of my little boy from 9-6 (by the time arrive home, 7 or 8) Monday to Friday, I will go crazy.

DH should have a positive perspective about this, and they should work as usual if they have nothing to hide. besides, I don't think the employer can keep watching the whole day long.

 

[Little Monster]

yeah, seriously, very interesting result.
would love to see some sharings from those who have already installed cameras.

Mmm, interesting result of the poll...how come nobody voted 'Done'(already installed)? Is it because those mommies didn't bother to vote?

 

[london2hk]

I think these jobs are very different to what is on topic here and also you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.
I'm not saying you shouldn't monitor or supervise your DH, I just don't think spying on them with a camera is the most best way.

Domestic helpers live in their 'office' and would never really know when the cameras are on or off or where they are in the house and I don't think that is healthy for them to feel like they can never fully relax.
Imagine if you were being filmed - permanent footage of you that is someone else's property, doesn't seem much different from being on Big Brother show really and they all go crazy after a few weeks!

And I really agree with Matty, knowing you have a camera on you is unnerving and would distract me from the tasks at hand. I play silly games with the toddler I look after and if I knew a camera was on me and the adults will watch it later I definitely would be different if how I interact with him, I don't want them to witness my puppet shows!

:yeah2

call center
- your conversation with callers will be recorded

Fashion / luxury shops
- mystery shoppers constantly come to check on the frontline sales team.
- cameras are installed in the shops.

Office
- your computer is secretly monitored
- in some traditional office, you have to mark down your onduty and offduty time.
- even in some modern office environment, you get a company security card, each time u get in and out of office, u use the card to open the door, and in fact all these are recorded.
- in some cases, you are required to sign in your online communication account such as msn, skype, etc, to let your supervisor know that you are onduty/offduty.

Most work environments
- a supervisor / supervisors are PRESENT to check on you


So, should we all stand up and go for a demonstration against all these because we want our respect and privacy at work?

Just imagine that the employer's home is the DH's office, and they should just work under supervision like all other employees in the world.

 

[aussiegal]

LM also mentioned a nationality, ie Indonesian and developing world, being uneducated and them eating with their bare hands all in one para which makes me upset. To me, there is an implication that it is the above that leads to our precious little children being mistreated. Is that true or ok, you think?

I think you overreacted to Little Monster's statement. But I will say that it is naive to think that all helper's are hygienic, educated etc. Many (not all) are uneducated and come from very poor families (thus they are here to support their family). A friend just discovered that her helper of 5 years stands on her toilet when using it - her son said 'mummy this is how x does wee wee'. I would not want that to happen in my house.

I had a part timer who I had to remind every time she came over to wash her hands before she started work. She'd take public transport to us and want to touch my baby without washing hands. I had to get rid off her because it was clear she thought i was being over the top and that if i wasn't there to tell her she simply wouldn't do it. She would also use the same cloth to wipe a toilet and the sink!

And of course there are the helpers in our playground that do eat with their hands, hot cooked food that is messy (noodles for example) and then without washing their hands they feed their kids (the employer's kids). Now that might be how they do it back home but it's not how we do it here with easy access to running water etc. There are differences that come from being in a developing world and if a helper can't respect that their employer has certain expectations or wants things done certain ways then they won't be in a job for long.

Somebody earlier asked why strangers should be accorded such trust to begin with?We don't know them or their backgrounds why should they automatically be given the benefit of the doubt? I agree with this. I think that installing a camera is something you do at the beginning but overtime you shouldn't need to do it anymore. If you do it's time to fire.

 

[AndreaY]

A friend just discovered that her helper of 5 years stands on her toilet when using it - her son said 'mummy this is how x does wee wee'. I would not want that to happen in my house.

Hmmm, unless you install cameras in the toilet too, (1) how would you really know and (2) it would not happen in your house. Provided they keep the toilet clean and wash their hands afterwards, I actually do not care about how my helpers use their toilets (apart from if they not use toilet paper or something). Since your friend signed 3 contracts with the same helper, I assume she thinks her work is good. For me, in this particular scenario, my worry would actually be why is her son (assumed he is over 3 with the "mummy, this is now x does wee wee") allowed to watch the helper wee....

Guess the solution would be not to have a helper?

 

[RookieMom]

I agree with geomom et al about raising your child. However, I know that this is not always an option given that we want / need to work as well. I think if you are thinking of getting a camera, it's time to find a new helper, or find another alternative.

I don't think it's easy to gauge what helpers do when we are not around. I have witnessed some helpers (in previous threads) who have thrown kids across the room in front of everyone - I yelled at her - but who knows what the helper does behind close doors. Not everyone's got cameras installed in their homes, so it's difficult to say what the helpers are doing. Even if they are not violent with the kids, they may not treat the kids with the same hygiene that you expect either becuase you are not around, or because they don't know any different. The net result, however, is that it is simply disgusting. The worse thing is that your baby can not communicate to you. It's a real frustrating experience.

Aside from potentially (1) hostile, or (2) unhygenic, most of them may not be able to provide the type of stimulations required either becuase (a) they are disinterested, (b) not educated, or (c) something else. Who knows what the reason, but you really need to ask yourself if this is sufficient.

I understand that cost needs to be a factor, but your child's well-being, in my opinion, supercedes that. Some of the alternatives my friends have suggested are the following:

(1) Hire a nanny with an early childhood education (most costly);

(2) Hire a helper to clean, and hire a Chinese nanny (less costly) to look after the child; or

(3) Hire a helper to clean, and hire an expat babysitter who's looking for work (but doesn't hold an early childhood education degree or whatever) to help on a full or part time basis.


All three options, however, would require the sitter/nanny to be compatible with the family on many levels (e.g., culturally, philisophically, etc...)


My two cents...

 

[AndreaY]

Even if they are not violent with the kids, they may not treat the kids with the same hygiene that you expect either becuase you are not around, or because they don't know any different. The net result, however, is that it is simply disgusting. The worse thing is that your baby can not communicate to you. It's a real frustrating experience.

Aside from potentially (1) hostile, or (2) unhygenic, most of them may not be able to provide the type of stimulations required either becuase (a) they are disinterested, (b) not educated, or (c) something else. Who knows what the reason, but you really need to ask yourself if this is sufficient.

I am not one who is thinks all helpers are great caretakers of children, but I do find this a little insulting. Do you really think that most helpers are potentially hostile, unhygenic, disinterested, uneducated or otherwise unwilling to provide proper care??!! I think it'd be sad if you did.

The majority of helpers I know take good care of their "wards", they are not meant to be professional surrogate parents, so I think it's unrealistic to expect them to be of that standard. Also who said that "parents" are in majority that well-qualified, esp 1st time parents who are still trying to figure things out? Sorry if I am offending any 1st time parent, but I am just remembering when I had my 1st. I actually tried to cut my baby's fingernails and managed to cut her finger and she was bleeding.

Excuse the babble, but I just thought the comment was a little hard to swallow.

 

[aussiegal]

Provided they keep the toilet clean and wash their hands afterwards, I actually do not care about how my helpers use their toilets (apart from if they not use toilet paper or something). Since your friend signed 3 contracts with the same helper, I assume she thinks her work is good. For me, in this particular scenario, my worry would actually be why is her son (assumed he is over 3 with the "mummy, this is now x does wee wee") allowed to watch the helper wee....

Guess the solution would be not to have a helper?

I wouldn't want my helper to walk on our floors with feet or shoes she's used to stand on the toilet with no matter how clean she keeps it. It's just not a picture I want in my head.

As for how would a 3 year old have seen the helper wee in the first place I'm sure mine has seen my helper wee too. If they are out in public and she needs to wee there's no way I would want her to leave him standing outside the toilet door.

 

[AndreaY]

I was more thinking of if she did squat on the toilet to wee, the young boy would have clear view of her nether regions, which would not happen if she went normally. Maybe I am a prude and not have sons at the moment to speak from experience, but I wouldn't want my son, if I have one, to see that.

 

[monte]

Getting back to the original question, just thought I'd share my experience. We had the same sitter from the time our baby was about 6 months, and he always seemed happy when I got home so I never worried about her. ( I was only gone for 3 hours one afternoon per week). But then when he turned 10 months he started crying hard as soon as he saw her and crawling over to me and clinging to me desperately. I was pretty sure this was just a separation anxiety phase, but after several weeks of the same behavior I did start to wonder. Not that I thought she was abusing him, since there were no marks or bruises, but maybe she was jsut letting him cry or leaving him in the crib, etc. So after some debate I set up an audio recorder when I left one day (didn't have a camera). I did feel like I was invading her privacy and I felt some guilt about that, but I decided my need to feel ok about my son's treatment trumped the privacy issue for me. And I felt great about what I heard--he only cried for a few minutes, and she was very soothing to him, singing and talking. And then I heard them playing, again, with lots of singing and talking and giggling and I never worried about her since! He still cries when I leave, but I can hear that even before I get on the elevator he stops. Anyway, the one-time recorder was very reassuring to me as a new mom, and I don't regret it. If I had heard anything questionable, I would have let the sitter go.

 

[radicalmum]

Hello mummies,

thank you so much for all the inputs. i've decided not to install it for now until i go back to work fulltime.

to address my previous issues, i've been spending more time on my helper as well and she is beginning to understand what i wanted for baby. So i'm generally fine with things now, at the same time very happy that we got to know each other better.

I also think letting them know what they are doing is right, wrong and praising their efforts more often does help them to keep up the good work.

If i ever is going back to work, i would certainly install the camera simply to see my baby blossom everyday. The small things i would missed when i'm not home. And i'm sure my helper would be more than happy to help me get involved with this if i gave her ample confidence and involvement with the it.

Also, i would agree now with the other mummies that if i'm uncomfortable with my baby alone with a helper, perhaps it's time to change one. I guess, there will be more issues here and there along the way but oh well, one step at a time. Things don't happen overnight most of the time anyways.

=)

 

[HKdad]

Its worth it. It changes mentality and harbits

 

[mummymoo]

We have cameras in our home, ostensibly to watch our child whilst we are at work, but they have been helpful in terms of picking up some issues relating to the care of our child. Firstly, I noted that when my child asks for fruit and the helper has been sweeping, cleaning in the bathroom there is no hand washing before the fruit is prepared. This is despite the fact that I have reiterated the importance of this many, many times. Also it is usually hard to determine, because unless you wish to hang out in the kitchen whilst your dinner is being prepared, you can't really know if hands are being washed (after like blowing your nose) and more often than not there are not (probable similar to what happens in restaurants here right?). Now my helper knows that I can see it, she does try a little bit harder but did seem resentful when I brought it up.
Secondly, and more importantly, we have huge windows and are on a high floor with no window grills. I have asked the helpers never to open the windows in the house, yet I knew they were because the window handles were always in different positions when I checked. As the helper is not with my toddler 100% of the time, as I am not when I look after her (one may duck out to get something to eat from the kitchen, answer the front door ect), I considered it a significant safety risk, despite their claims that they always were with my child. After evidence that the windows were indeed being opened, I sorted the problem once and for all and had locks installed on all the windows and took away all the keys, so that's the end to that.
End of the day, you can not be sure that the way you wish something to be done is done to your specifications, and some rules are in place for a good reason even if others (my husband included, he is local and lived in high rises with no grill windows all his young life and he's still alive!!!) believe that you are being over cautious, and won't follow them. A camera can help you mitigate these risks, or when you find out about the problem, at least manage them.
Finally, one further comment, at the end of the day I am generally happy with my helpers, whom I trust and whom I think are kind hearted BUT I do think that most mums who leave their children with helpers or any carer tend to actively look for reasons to trust (self satisficing) as they have to, because at the end of the day, if you don't talk yourself into believing that your helper/carer is trustworthy than you really would be the worst sort of mum, deliberately leaving your child in the hands of someone who could/would harm them.

 

[mummymoo]

FYI our cameras were installed in our home before we moved in and it is in full view of the helpers so they know they are there. The cameras are only in my child's room, the living areas and the kitchen. Bathrooms, helpers rooms are definitely off limits.