Will we ever leave Hong Kong?

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NewMommie

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Coming to Asia from the U.S. was supposed to be an adventure for a few years, and the longer we stayed, the more stubborn my husband got about how 'great' it is here, until recently, finding out we are pregnant for the first time, and me pushing the question of when we would return home, he revealed that he never wants to return to the U.S.

It doesn't help that he is in finance and would have no job back home, whereas his career is soaring out here, and that with all the damage from the economic crisis, violent gun deaths and other 'problems' with the US he always has something to argue, logically, against going home.

But I never thought I would stay here forever. I have a wonderful family back home, and we get to see them maybe 2-3 times a year, which doesn't seem like enough. All my best and oldest friend are there too. He doesn't have a great relationship with his divorced parents, and is an only child, and always was very career minded. (Btw, he is not Chinese ethnically, but I am - well, I was born and raised in the U.S. but my ethnic background is Chinese. Not Chinese from HK, however, and I don't speak the language so it is hard for me.)

I have been making the best of it out here. I don't hate HK, I just didn't see myself here long-term, and the more I think about 'forever', the more I dislike things instead of accept them. I see so many cheating husbands and open prostitution and pure chauvinism and cannot see how these are good things for us. I don't want to abandon him and just go back to the U.S. for months at a time, because I notice the couples who have that arrangement don't seem to be in happy marriages, and I want a family that stays in the same place together. Also, everyone keeps trying to convince me my husband might change his mind as our child gets older and choose to go home, but I know how he is and I sincerely doubt it.

I guess I wanted to know from others on this forum if you have any advice for me. Maybe it is my pregnancy hormones talking, but I am feeling really trapped and upset at a time which should be joyful. And if nothing else, thanks for listening.
 
Hi NewMommie,

you do sound upset at the prospect of staying in HK long term and that is understandable as by the sound of it you have a great family and network of friends in the U.S.
Try not to stress yourself out by looking so far ahead. Things can change so quickly day by day week by week. I would try to put this thought on the back-burner for a little while. Concentrate on what your life is about now - not what it may or may not be in the future.
I know this is hard - but give it a go.
 
Hi NewMommie

I agree with Bumps that you should try to stay positive as out here, things change all the time. I came out here for 2 years, and that was 10 years ago. I've also seen people who wanted to stay here longer being posted home, or elsewhere around the region and so the thing I realise is that out here, you can never tell what's around the corner! (And btw, the people that got posted to Singapore ended up really liking it after initially being reluctant to move).

Just try to be open with him about how you feel, and try to come to some compromise. It will be worse to have some issue come between you that you're not happy communicating about.

Good luck and think positive!! (and CONGRATULATIONS!)
 
Hi - your situation does sound really tough, but the hormones are raging and this will definitely be making things seem more intense.

We were in a similar scenario in London, my career was there but over time my husband really began hate it and desperately wanted to move elsewhere. In the end we moved to HK and have both learned to love our lives here.

For me this was harder but I have concentrated on making the most of it, as you have, things have become easier over time and whilst it's not perfect, I really appreciate the good aspects.

Our friends and family are spread between the UK and NZ so this is a halfway point - we don't see them often which is sad, but make it count when we do holiday together.

I have also built up a great network of friends here which I think has been key to feeling better about HK - we share the same problems and experiences which is something I sometimes can't speak to my friends from elsewhere about.

That said, we now truly have no idea where we are going to end up ultimately but have agreed to take each year as it comes.

Your husband might indeed not change his mind, but a few things might change the conditions around his thinking and yours.

It sounds like work is a big driver for him. The current recession means that there are major opportunities in financial services in Asia, but that is not always going to be the case. Depending on his sector, the industry will eventually rebound and firms will be looking for the high performers out here to return and help rebuild in other regions.

Also although it may seem that starting a family here is tying you to HK and exacerbating the trapped feeling, there really are massive benefits to having small children here - help being the big one. I can't imagine being back home with two small kids without my helper. I know family compensate, but not in the same day-to-day way. I can continue to work and have precious time for myself that wouldn't be financially possible elsewhere. Also, learning Chinese and growing up in a multicultural environment surrounded by lots of different nationalities will be a big benefit for them, however long we are here.

As bumps says, it's hard but try concentrate on your life as it is now and enjoy the pregnancy.
 
i must tell you that i am in somewhat of the same situation.

i've been here 14+ years. i came for what was supposed to be a ONE WEEK holiday and never left. 3 years later, i met my local husband.

not a day goes by that i don't think that the grass is greener on the other side of the pacific (literally and figuratively!), but canada for me.

it is not my husband that keeps us here, but finances. we each run fairly successful small businesses. we worry about what we would do for work if we did relocate "home". the answer for us came when we realised that for the time being we need to be happy where we are. with no prospects for moving back anytime soon, we need to be content with our lives here.

if we moved back, we would be SUPER stressed as we would have no job (like your hubby). our stress levels would NOT make for a happy home. our children would suffer for it.

we've decided on a 5-10 year plan. we still think about going there for good, but the pressure is off, because we won't be doing it now or even next year.

when we came to this conclusion, i took it really hard. i agreed with it, but it wasn't easy to accept it. i explained to hubby that if i was going to be able to survive here indefinitely, i HAD to make more trips home than i was. i was depressed that my kids didn't know my side of the family very well. so, we started to rectify that. instead of going back for a couple of weeks every couple of years, i took my kids back for a month. hubby couldn't come because of work, but he was very supportive. he knew it was something i had to do. my mum is now planning on coming here for christmas (first time at christmas!), and i think i will take the kids back again next spring for a long time, maybe another month trip...

it has made it SOOOOOOO much easier.
 
Hi newmommie, I feel for you I really do....I have been in Asia for 3 years now, (2 years in Vietnam and 1 year in Hong Kong) when we moved to Asia it was suppose to be only for 3 years and then we were going to move back to Canada and start a family....Well lets just say the 3 years have passed. I just had my first baby 3 weeks ago and I really want to go home. I miss my family and friends, I really dont have any close girl friends here in Hong Kong.

I do like Hong Kong dont get me wrong its much better then Vietnam but its not home :(

Anyways advice for you, truley put your heart out to your husband and try to come to some kind of compromise, as I did with mine. If he really cares about you and your soon to come baby you should be able to work something out and come to an agreement of some kind. I went to my hubby and told him how I feel, we agreed to stay a little longer because he probably wont be able to get a job in his field due to the economey right now, and if we stay here my hubby will be up for a promotion next year and it is the job he has been waiting for a long time, after he gets the experience in that position we will go home.

Also keep an open mind and remember that plans change and things dont always go as you want it! But communication and compromise are key in a marriage for it to work!

Good luck!
 
Your siutation is exactly what I fear. My husband want to go to Hk for a year or so "for the expereince" and to be closer to his family. I would love to do that too, but I am worried once we are there he won't want to leave. I never imagined that we would live anywhere but in Canada on a permanent basis and raise our chidlren in schools here. a year or 2 fine, but the polution, lack of having a yard and grass and space, we would have less money because we'd have to pay for school and I wouldn't be able to work. Iw orry too that for the children the society seems so so materialistic. Not that there aren't people in canada like that too, but it seem so much worse in Hk. I worry about the sutble things you learn in society, canada being very socialist and Hk very much not.
 
When we first moved here, it was for "2-5 years". We've been here for 3 years and one baby - and now it's "10-15 years"!! In some ways, I LOOOVVEEE being over here. Travel around the world is much easier than from Australia. The pay is much much higher and tax is much much lower. I do sometimes have my days where I just want to move back "home" - because HK doesn't really feel like "home"... but I try to stay positive and look on the bright side. There are SOOOO many great things about living here!! And I know in my situation, if I EVER said to my husband that I 100% couldn't take it any more, we'd move back. I try to visit a bit more often now that we have a baby - I want her to grow up being close to our family there... But I try to really look at it from the positive as well. Hong Kong still feels "right" for us - and it does have it's ups and downs - but overall, I am glad that we're still here.
 
Babymommy2 - you can have a yard, grass and space if you live off the island in the NT, Sai Kung or Clearwater Bay. It's a trade-off commute wise if you or your husband work in central, but a lot of people have amazing homes out there. The air is marginally better out in those areas, but you are right in that ultimately there is no getting around the pollution...

Regarding materialism, yes it's all over. But only fractionally more than other places I've lived (Canada not being one so I guess it's very different). I've found that if you surround yourself with different types of people, from different walks of life, you can get balance.

The availability of comparatively low cost home help here means you could also work.

More generally on this topic - I'm talking from an expat perspective with no local family here - I have found that life in HK can cement you, your husband and kids as a stand alone family unit in a way it might not at home. As you have no extended family around, you wholly rely on yourselves and become a tight knit little circle.

Also, the little tensions that big family dynamics often create (MILs etc..) don't exist here. I'm sometimes amazed at the interaction I see when I go home - created mostly by just being in each other's pockets.

Again, I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone, just a observation.
 
I feel really bad for you. Enjoying one's environment and place of abode, feeling at home is fundamental to our happiness. It seems so wrong (and unfair) that you should just have to stay positive or put up with it. We only have one life after all.

I would go absolutely mad if my husband decided he wanted to stay here longer than our plan (3-5 years). HK is just not a place where I can walk outside and feel inspired by nature, breathe in clean air, look at a beautiful blue sky (a real blue!) and feel that all is right with the world. I love Australia (and most other places around the world!) because its beauty inspires me. I look outside in HK and whilst some days it is beautiful in its own way it's just not a place I ever feel very relaxed in. Weekends in Oz are such a pleasure. I was feel relaxed by Sunday night, like I've had a good chance to unwind. Here if anything i find weekends stressful. We're always trying to figure out what we can do with our young boys and the result is rarely interesting.

Anyway, I hope you can find a real solution that doesn't require one of you to be unhappy.
 
I also have been thinking a lot about how long we will be staying here. I have lived in Asia (Japan, Thailand, China, HK) for the past 6 years or so and the longer I stay away, the better Canada looks, especially now that we`ve just had a baby. But because of the economic situation there, compounded by the fact that my husband is very much not a native speaker, we don`t have a great chance at success there.
Also, nowdays in Canada, all the young families are working their buts off just to achieve or maintain the status quo. Which in Canada is a big house and all the furniture for it, 2 cars, lots of appliances, vacations, etc. That means daycare for the kids from at least a year(after mat leave). And then what? You just work work work to pay your mounting bills, only to barely see your kids and be stressed out about seeing the extended family. That`s how I see a lot of young families nowdays.
People say that HK is materialistic. I think Canada is too, all the western countries and more. But maybe Canada looks less materialistic because all those `materials`, you are just expected to get(the status quo) and most people live the same way in the same class.
LeahH made a lot of good points about not being surrounded by family here so you are your own tight little unit. I really like that about living abroad. Especially not having to live near the in-laws, woo hoo!
But it`s getting to be a toss up - HK is a bit too city, with little escape (that doesn`t involve lots of public transit for us), it`s expensive, I don`t know how we could afford another kid, let alone put our current one in school when the time comes(of course that`s an issue of our own financials - seems a lot of expat families here wouldn`t have that problem). And well, I would love a square of grass to plop my baby onto, plain and simple(btw, we can`t live in Sai Kung or like places as it would be too much of a commute for my husband).
So where is perfect, where is ideal? I have not found that place yet, and I have lived in quite a few.
But you do what you gotta do, sometimes for economic reasons, sometimes for familial reasons, or whatever. I don`t have any good advice here - I just wanted to share my own experience and thoughts.
 
Shenzhennifer said:
Also, nowdays in Canada, all the young families are working their buts off just to achieve or maintain the status quo. Which in Canada is a big house and all the furniture for it, 2 cars, lots of appliances, vacations, etc. You just work work work to pay your mounting bills, only to barely see your kids and be stressed out about seeing the extended family. That`s how I see a lot of young families nowdays.
People say that HK is materialistic. I think Canada is too, all the western countries and more. But maybe Canada looks less materialistic because all those `materials`, you are just expected to get(the status quo) and most people live the same way in the same class.....

But it`s getting to be a toss up - HK is a bit too city, with little escape (that doesn`t involve lots of public transit for us), it`s expensive, I don`t know how we could afford another kid, let alone put our current one in school when the time comes(of course that`s an issue of our own financials - seems a lot of expat families here wouldn`t have that problem). And well, I would love a square of grass to plop my baby onto, plain and simple.
So where is perfect, where is ideal? I have not found that place yet, and I have lived in quite a few.
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Funny I hear that argument quite a lot around HK. People debate going back to their home western countries and give up their quality of life in HK and then give up a lot of their quality of life from their home countries to live in HK. It all depends on where a person places their values. I know HK is not for me. The pollution, paying ridiculous amounts of money to buy imported and "safe" foods that don't come from mainland and live so far from immediate family and crowded living conditions aren't for me. I don't mind going back home and not having a domestic helper clean and watch my children- I actually can't stand the idea of having one. I don't need to keep up with the Jones' or have ridiculously expensive appliances to keep me happy. Some people fit well into the HK lifestyle and some people don't. It is what you value that will decide for you. But you are in a marriage that hopefully is mutually based and therefore you shouldn't have to live where your partner dictates without having some voice. When your baby arrives your focus will completely change- it isn't just hormones. Hopefully, your partner will fall into sync with that. Your little one will arrive and and things will become much clearer for both of you. Yes, the global economy is not healthy right now but it will turn around. You might have to sit tight in HK for awhile or make sacrifices to return to your home country. My husband and I always debate about which is a better place and he prefers HK to the west. The grass is always greener. But for us, family of utmost importance and why we could never live here long term. We want our children to know their grandparents. We do want a plot of grass to plop our children on.
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shenzheniffer,

you COULD live out in sai kung, get a cheaper place and buy a used car. we've done it.

we are paying less than $20k for 2100' home. 5 bed, 4 bath, garden, 2 car parks.

we bought an el cheapo car ($8000) and i use it to commute daily to tsing yi. it still works out to be MUCH cheaper than most places. it takes me 45 minutes door-to-door.

ideally, i would love to live a little closer to work, but that is just not in the cards. i would rather be on the road an extra 20 minutes per day and enjoy the space we have.

it is a trade-off though.
 
Carang, whilst Sai-Kung is definitely better on many fronts it is still not the solution. For many people the commute is too long, you are too isolated and there is not enough 'life' (nice cafes, good restaurants, interesting shops etc) out there to make it worthwhile.

But that is really irrelevant, the main issue I see is that husband and wife don't agree on where their future is. This has to be addressed or one will end up being a martyr. My mother did that and it doesn't work. It will end in divorce at some point even if it's 20 years down the track (as was the case in our family). It is possible to put a smile on and live with something you don't like for a certain amount of time but when you can't see an end in sight it really sucks.
 
i agree it isn't a solution... i'm still suffering the "will i ever live in canada again?" complex.

however, i realised very quickly when i was visiting friends in OZ and Canada, that my life in hk wasn't so terrible...

at my friends's house, i caught myself saying..."wow, you have a playroom AND a garden...aren't you luc..." then i realised i have those, too!

like i said, it is a trade off... for us, the slightly longer commute was/is worth it... may not be for everyone, though.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. I feel SO much better knowing that my situation isn't unique (not that I thought it was, but I was only hearing my husband's side of the story 99% of the time, so I felt like my opinion on this was somehow 'wrong' if that makes any sense...)

To answer carang, I actually do have a good job out here, and because I am an expat, I get an expat package and therefore make more. Of course, it's not enough, even with my husband's expat package, to get a reasonably sized house with a backyard and an easy commute. Seeing what you say about Sai kung, however, I will definitely look into that and other options; what I saw seemed unaffordable with a long commute, but maybe I need to look around more. My career actually gets used against me too; my husband argues that I wouldn't be able to get as good a job if we returned to the U.S. either...of course, with the baby on the way we are also discussing me taking some time off in his/her early years, because I don't exactly have a job that translates well into the family planning stage we are in. (Any of you notice that HKers seem to all be workaholics, with a minimum 12 hour workday?!)

I think aussiegal and some others had it right too; I guess ultimately I feel like I have no say in the matter and maybe that is really what is getting to me more than whether HK is a fundamentally good or bad place for our family. But hearing all of you give tips on the good pts of HK help, and so do your encouraging words and personal stories. I'm going to try to talk to the husband this weekend...not to come up with a solution, but just to let him know that my opinion needs to be considered, not dismissed, and that if we decide to stay in HK, it's because WE decide to, not HE decides to. I think that is the best thing I can do for me and for our growing family.
 
I always fine it interesting that people here couldn't bear the thought of the commute from Sai Kung.
From Sai Kung town it's literally 50 mins to get to Central, and I'm talking about taking a minibus and MTR.
You could live 10 mins closer in certain parts of Clearwater Bay, and of course you could drive if you wanted..

I personally don't know anyone in Sydney that works in the CBD and has less than a 30 min commute. Mine used to be 45.

I think we get used to the HK way of everything being 5mins away.

NewMommie, I hated HK for the first few years, and counted down the days til we could go back to Australia.
Circumstances have kept us here for 9 years, (it was supposed to be 2) and since moving to Sai Kung last year, I now know that if we have to stay indefinatley, I'll be happy.

Good luck, I hope you and your hubby can reach a compromise.
 
Carang,

for me the reason I wouldn't be able to work is that I am an RN and when I looked into it, many years ago, maybe it has changed, but then for me to get a liscense I would have to sit exams again, I would have to be fluent in Cantonese. I work in public health( and have for aver 10 years, I likely could not pass hospital related nursing exams) and have a perfect job teaching prenatal classes only 2 evenings a week leaving me to be pretty much a stay at home mom. It is not much but it keeps be liscensed, keeps my foot in the door, so that I can work more when my children are older. If I am in hong kong I throw that away, will loose my liscense at home from lack of hours, Nursing in HK is totally different and I from what I have learned, do not practise and are not treated at all in the same way as it is in canada.
That is just one issue for me, there are others.
 
hmmmm, interesting. thanks for elaborating. my best friend is a pilot and has put in an application with cathay. his wife is a little concerned about what she will do. she is an OR nurse in canada.

she's ok with taking exams, but not with chinese. i wonder what the requirements would be for working in matilda? they must be the same, but is there any way that she could do the exams in english?
 
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