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Boris

Registered User
As the " Father@FiftyFive 4the2ndtime " and with a Chinese wife who reads and believes what she reads as gospel ( the product of the Mao education system I'm sad to say ) because its her first and she is intrigued / scared by the unexpected experience to come. I ask for the following assistance from you all because white man speak has no credibility with the Chinese maiden.

1) That C section is NOT de rigueur for childbirth and with enough drugs its going to be OK going Onaturel. Natural birthers speaking mandarin or canto PLEASE rescue me because all she is reading says its a horror story.

2) That the public service does not have you queuing for one room on a conveyour belt system, in agony, with no care, all alone, at Queen Marys. That ( as I have seen posted here ) you can go on a Saturday and check it out for yourselves.

3) That everything you read is not necessarily so definitive and there is no substitute for experience. She should join a group and be comforted that she is not alone but ( even though 42 ) one of many millions having the experience annually.

4) That anything but a disposable diaper is great in theory until you deal with the reality of the operation. On that point also that Johnsons baby powder and Sudocrem is an ESSENTIAL item and not poisonous western medicine.


FYI- Thanks to Rani for putting up all the info in the articles section. That shopping review of Ah Chi Co is spot on and great to know that what we thought in our visit before seeing the review, is well founded.

Questions I have.
a) Formula prices -- are you having a laugh here in HK ????? These guys are REALLY ripping you off.

b) Stanley Market - ( Lo Woo by the sea ) - nice quality but is there the same thing not so remote and aimed at non tourists, buying discount branded for baby?

c) For general purpose use the Wellcome No Frills range of Diaper seems good value and also appears to be the same product that Toys R Us brand their own. Whats the reality? For me ( a man ) all I see is Pampers using the extra money you pay for Sacchi and Sacchi advertising and elasticated gimmickry.
 
Okay, i am not Chinese so I will have to skip to the bottom of your thread, but we use the Toys-r-Us diapers and they are fine. I will say, however, that all babies are not equal and yours might not be able to use them. It is a question of diaper blow-out. For instance, for our kids, Pampers were terrible, but Huggies okay. And, as I said, we use the Toys-r-Us variety 95% of the time.
Also, where else would you buy formula? China? Can't do much about the price here, although you can skip it to a large degree for as long as you want. The mommy-to-be comes equipped with better stuff than formula anyway.
 
I had C section and I can tell you that it was a nightmare compared to my cousin (who gave birth naturally a day before me and was on the same hospital). I envied her for having able to walk around and hold her baby when I couldnt even sit properly. But I think as your wife is 42, you should ask obs advice on this one.
For diaper, it is really depend on your baby's delicate skin. My heart aches when I see my baby's sore red skin and hear the cry she made when I try to clean those sore skin. I would spend more to get a better diaper for her.
About formula, breastfeeding is better than any formula in the world. Cow's milk is not suitable for under 1 year old. And ppl from mainland china are crazily buying the formula here in hongkong for an obviuos reason, trusted quality especially after the tainted milk incident. Both diaper and formula can be bought at cheaper price at local drug store.
 
" Father@FiftyFive 4the2ndtime " - you make me laugh. And what an adventure you`re about to go on (again).
I`m western but I will give my 2 sense to all that apply for me:
1)yes, the c-section preference here is weird. I went through about 20 hours or so of labour and then had a c-section. Both terribly painful. But at least with natural, the experiences and pain thresholds vary so greatly it`d be hard for anyone to comment with confidence. But c-sections are generally uniform, as are our bodies, and MAN OH MAN THEY HUUUURRRRTTTT!!!!!
2)n\a
3)she is obviously experienced but out of practice and daunted. She should join this site and there is a similar Chinese language one called...Baby Kingdom, I believe.
4) I agree. I use also disposable, and although the waste is shameful, I can`t see myself doing the dirty work for the former. However, I`m sorry to inform you that times have changed, and baby powder is no longer kosher to use. It`s now considered dangerous for the baby to inhale during use. I don`t know Sudocrem but if it`s for diaper rash, Vaseline works wonders for that and more.

a) They are high, for sure. But unless you want to chance it with plastic, you will have to shell out for the imports. And more for organic. Breastfeeding is free:)
b) I go to Stanley (though probably won`t anymore) and it IS far and it`s not that cheap. People on this board talk about this street market and that one, but I have not been to a market that has such a variety (of sizes too) of brands that I like (like Carters) with such consistency. It`s kind of a one-stop shop, but I find markets are too tedious (too many one-offs) when bent on time. But maybe I haven`t been to the right one.
c) I have used almost all (normal priced) brands here (which are also more expensive than back home), and I have preferences for different baby ages. Don`t forget, your newborn will be constantly dripping poo (remember?), so it`s up to you if you want a cheaper diaper or a good diaper(love papmpers swaddlers, so soft)... I have been using ToysRUs brand for a while (to complement my huggies) and I think they are totally fine and the price is great. Local pharmacies are SOOO much cheaper than ParknShop and Watsons, etc.
 
I am appreciating the replies here A LOT,
a) Because it reinforces some things already given as anecdotal.
b) You are all very civilised !

Thanks ( so far ) for the links and we will both carry these forward. Baby Kingdom is something I was not aware of and will be good reading for my wife ( Jenny ) and also I am translating this into Chinese for her because the information value ( after a quick look at B K ) seems much higher.
 
Great post BORIS, glad to see fathers getting involved!

1) Child birth is painful, natural or c-section! There are pro's and con's to both. I did a course with Annerley midwives which gave alot of information on child birth, and they also have Hypnobirthinhg classes. Check out the Annerley website Annerley - maternity and early childhood professionals in Hong Kong.

2) Sorry can't answer that as I went private.

3) Get your wife on this website. I bought way too many books on pregnancy, child birth and babies, and found so much conflicting information and advice. The best source of information I found was from this website! They even have due-date clubs where you can meet up with other mothers to be due around the same time.

4) I felt guilty about using disposable nappies but couldn't face using cloth. So I bought the most eco-friendly I could find, Tushies from Bumps to Babes and MOLTEX from Three Sixty supermarkets. Yes they are more expensive but I felt I was helping the environment. Baby powder isn't really used anymore. I used it occasionally to dry my babies neck as it was hard to dry with all his rolls of fat. And I only used an organic brand which is Talc free and made of corn starch called Green Baby. I used the same brand for his nappy cream, bath wash and shampoo. I've also used Burts Bee's products too. Both more expensive than Johnsons & Johnsons but with less chemicals.

a) Try breastfeeding first, its free!! Formula is expensive.

b) I went to Stanley a few times the clothes were good, but its not that cheap and its a trek. There is a place in Central that sells cheap clothes from Mothercare. I just can't remember the name...there is also a store at DB. I picked up the pamphlet at Annerley.
 
That store in Central is called Togs Unlimited. It's on the 8th floor of the Kimley Commercial building across from the Centre on Queen's road.
 
(a) Nappies - we use the reuseable ones and they are good. We didn't start using them until baby was 6 weeks old. I like the idea behind them and it is probably one of the few "green" things I do. Really, it is not that hard to do - scrape nappy and throw in washing machine. We only use a disposable on our toddler at night and during the day its reuseables (the Bum Genius brand). Heaps of threads on reuseables on here if you want to look into it. It is supposed to be more cost effective in the long run. In my experience Huggies are worth it as they don't leak - worth the extra dollars rather than having to change sheets and grobags all the time when they wet through. Out of interest, the Huggies nappies are considerably cheaper than in my home country!

(b) Definitely not baby powder! Sudocrem is excellent for nappy rash but note can't be used with reuseable nappies.


(c) Epidurals are a god send! I have only had a natural delivery so cannot compare with c-section but seems to be a better recovery. Can understand the fear of natural delivery though as I was terrified - more of the pain than anything else and that is where an epidural is excellent.

(d) Love Stanley market for baby clothes. A great range and not that expensive (especially compared to stores). It is a long way to go though. I do shop in the Lanes in Central as well but their prices are about the same if not a bit more expensive and much much better range in Stanley.

(e) Formula prices are formula prices. At some point you'll need to buy it (unless your wife BFs until over 1 year old and then switch to cows milk but fresh imported cows milk is expensive too).
 
giving birth:
after two c-sections, the first where the epidural didn't take properly and I COULD FEEL IT ALL!!! c-section was a nightmare. second one was done under general anesthesia and i was totally out of it for 24 hours. didn't see my baby for the first 24 hrs and as such had a MUCH harder time feeling bonded to her... it took me months of telling her how much i loved her before i truly believed it. my son was instant love.

although natural scares the beejeezus outta me, i think it is a far better choice. it IS natural to give birth. a woman's body is MADE FOR IT.... the human body is NOT made to be cut open and having baby extracted. i understand that there can be complications with both forms of childbirth, but c-sections are not the be all and end all of childbirth. EVERY WOMAN OUT THERE is terrified having her first. i don't know a single woman who isn't/hasn't been in your wife's shoes!

QMH:
although not luxurious by any stretch of the imagination, medically, they are one of the best hospitals in hk. for tips on making your stay more comfortable, do a search on here...there are lots of ideas of what you can do. i'm an old hand at it as i was hospitalised 13 times over 2 pregnancies.

diapers:
after two kids in disposables... i REALLY REALLY REALLY wished i had done cloth. my almost 3 yr old is STILL in diapers about 50% of the time... if you add up, over 3 years what you will spend on diapers, it think that cloth are TOTALLY worth it! even if you do cloth at home and disposables when going out. save big $$$ in the long run.

clothes:
for very good quality clothes, tung chung has some outlet stores. but honestly, babies grow SO FAST that, to me, it is utterly ridiculous to spend more than $50 on an outfit for a new born. my kids are mostly in market clothes, but we do have a few "nice" clothes for parties etc.

formula:
my first was 50-50 breastfed/formula fed until 6 months, then 100% formula. my second was 100% breastfed until 6 months. i would TOTALLY recommend breastfeeding if at all possible. if she has trouble with it, then there is no reason to feel guilty about bottle/formula feeding. formula is expensive, but welcome to having a child in hk... NOT cheap at all.

baby powder/sudocream:
i always used baby powder for my kids when they were babies. i got it from my mum. i only used diaper cream when my kids had a nappy rash. they are NOT some weird western medicinal thing.

powder merely ensures the skin is dry. cream acts as a barrier between the babies tender skin and sometimes acidic poop. my daughter developed diaper rashes VERY quickly... like if we didn't clean a poopy nappy within 5 minutes, she would have blisters forming! for her, diaper cream was an ESSENTIAL!
 
1) I did not have a C-Section, but with epidural, I experienced no pain at all, only 'pressure' which helped to indicate when it's the right time to push.

2) Not familiar with public system here to comment, but know that QMH is the one that is best equipped to handle complicated birth. Also that public hospitals are much cheaper than private hospitals.

3) Ask her to join us on Geobaby. It's an awesome website with many friendly, helpful and experienced moms/soon-to-be moms of all ages :)

4) We use Huggies for days and Pamper Swaddlers for nights. Both work great.

5) Formula prices. MUCH cheaper in the States (half price), but it'll be really heavy to bring enough over! We are on Enfamil which lasts 2 weeks (600ml a day), and costs about HKD231 a can.

6) Bought the basic essentials from Mothercare. Would advise not too buy too many until you know how big your baby is. They grow fast and you are also likely to receive many clothing items in your gift baskets :)

Lastly, think it's awesome to see an involved father on this forum :))
 
1) I had a C-section for my first, born in Hong Kong and I delivered normally my second, born in Singapore. I had planned on delivering normally my first, but was told by my doctor in HK that I had to deliver by C-section because of my condition (IUGR or Inter-Uterine Growth Retardation). Aware of my condition, my doctor in Singapore elected to monitor me more regularly and when he felt it was no longer safe for me to wait, recommended that I be induced instead. I would like to think my doctor was being conservative, although I did find out that he had other patients delivering that same morning in the same hospital, so I think convenience does play a role. Relative to almost any other part in the world, doctors in Hong Kong seem to prefer to deliver via C-section. However, I would certainly not elect to have a C-section again. The pain and duration of the pain was significant and left me less mobile after birth than when I delivered naturally. I still have the scars after almost five years. :( Also, I think the experience traumatized me enough that I actually had trouble having sex for over 18 months after my first was born, whereas I was able to have sex again less than two months after my second.

2) I delivered my first at a private hospital (Canossa), but brought my first to QMH for his inguinal hernia operation at 10 weeks. I didn't have a very good experience at Canossa then as they were having massive renovations - as they are apparently doing again, so there was construction noise throughout my stay. It was also very expensive, but fortunately, my husband's company insurance covered the costs. I only became familiar with the public system after I became a mother, but was so impressed by the treatment from the staff that I made a decision to deliver at QMH if I were to ever have a baby in HK again. Everyone knows that QMH is the place to go to if there are any complications. Even if you make reservations at a private hospital, they will send you to QMH if they encounter something they can't handle. In my opinion, the premium you pay for slightly nicer furnishings in your room at a private hospital is excessive and certainly not a trade-off I would have knowingly made had I been familiar with the public system.

3) I'm a Chinese-American who speaks Mandarin. You and your wife can PM me if she has any questions. My parents live with me and they're fluent in written and spoken Mandarin. They're very progressive and hands-on grandparents!

4) We use Dispo's Baby Luv or Pet Pet for days (less than HK$1 a diaper) and Huggies Dry Comfort for nights.

5) Would really encourage your wife to try breastfeeding. I worked full-time and breastfed my first for 17 months. I'm no longer working and am still breastfeeding my 19-month old. I really wanted to do this because my husband had severe childhood eczema, which definitely affected his self-esteem as a child. Both my children do have sensitive skin, but much milder than what my husband had to deal with, so I'm grateful.

6) I got almost every article of clothing that I needed for the first three years just from baby shower gifts, but you can get basics really inexpensively in places like Wanchai market. I'm sure there are markets in other places, too. I also went to Mothercare for the long-sleeved footsies, which are great for the first 3-6 months.

Congratulations and it's great to see more dads on the forum!
 
Particular thanks to Yonge for the invite and will certainly contact in a while so Jenny can get everything clear. I am printing out translations as I go with Google translate - but nothing like the real thing.

For all saying good for a dad to be involved. At 55 I have a chance to redeem myself for past transgressions in " not being there ". My other son was born in 1981 and I was away A LOT in the Royal Navy until 1992, then building a business etc etc. It all went too fast and I missed too much which came back to bite me in the arse eventually. Not this time, no way, no how.

At 55 with my wife at 42 this is truly a gift from God and is said without prompting by all our friends. Even from Jenny's ex husband who has become a close family friend over the years. So much more civilized here than seems in the west where my ex everything is uncomfortably distant.

So I thank you all and will get Jenny involved as much as I can.
 
If your wife is interested in breastfeeding, please contact La Leche League - Hong Kong, LLL-HK Home Page.

We have leaders who speak both Cantonese ad Mandarin. And also Chinese speaking meetings.

I'm attaching our current meeting notice.

Best wishes,
SARAH
 

Attachments

My western opinion
1) c/s have greater risks than vaginal birth and I can not understand why anyone would choose to have one over vaginal births. They are meant for medical siutations, not just because you are fearful of pain. If you really want a painfree birth, then epidural would be the way to go. Early labor is when you are at home, this is the longest part of labor and the easiest part. The hardest part is the shortest part, you will be at the hospital by then and if you don't want to feel it the epidural is an option.

2) This I can't speak too.

3) The problem with reading articles, books, and talking to people in general, is that you are getting a lot of information from both sides. for and against letting your baby cry, circumscision, breastfeeding, toilet training, everything. Babies are trial and error, and you will learn what works best for your baby, which by the way, may not be at all what you do for your mext baby, becasue all babies are different. Stay away from any reading that delivers a solution that is right for every baby. For more serious things like feeding, car seat safety, sids prevention, I would stick to statement from large groups that look into all the research and develop best practise statements (like the WHO, canadian or american pediatric society, Health canada, the cnanaidan society of obsetricians and gynecologists (by the way non of those groups say that routine non medically needed c-sec are a good idea),possilbly the chinese governement does similar statements? I am canadian and know more of the resources here.

4) I used disposable because I am lazy, but lots of people do cloth and say its not that hard. If she is up for it , it will save you money, and probalby better for baby, there are a ton of internet sites devoted to cloth diapers, and the cloth diapers of today are not like the old kind you have to fold and use pins with. Cloth diapers have come a long way. Babypowder is really discouraged in the west because of the issue of babies breathing in talc. which is not safe. It is considered pretty old fashioned and not many use it anymore. It is really meant to use to keep skin dry, and I live in a dry climate so more people use lotion or oils than talc. I know HK is a lot different so maybe it is more common there with the humididty. Sudocream? To each their own, you will find your own preferred brand of zinc. The common thing is to use petroeum jelly when no rash, to use as a barrier,and then when there is a rash use a zinc cream.


a) Formula prices, why not breastfeed?

b) There are lots of baby stores all over hong kong. I dont' go looking, but run inot them whenever we visit

c) For diapers you will find a particular brand will fit your baby best. I liked huggies and hated pampers (because they are perfumed), but have used store brands as well.


Good Luck with your journy into parenthood!
 
@babymommy2

What you and others have said regarding 3) = reading, is so true for those of educated "normally". I try and try to have her understand that opinion is just that and if the article is well researched then at the very least it will have a reference index to back up the statement.

Jenny is a product of Mao and the 60's mainland system. You read, you write, you pass with what you write down from what you read. Questioning is not in her DNA ( but she has freckles, dimples and the cutest nose - so how can I get mad and force the point ! ).

Life in households where the educational point of view is not just 180 but 360 x XXX like an angry Taz in a Looney Tunes cartoon, is slow and steady, when it comes to explanations of what is and isn't cold hard fact!
 
hi boris and jenny

1) i have done it naturally and had a c-section and by far i preferred vaginal delivery. the recovery, pain and numbness of the c-section was awful.

2) with my second pregnancy i gave birth at the queen mary and only have positive things to say about the experience. they were fantastic. as cara says, they are not luxurious, but they are very knowledgeable. and the price is right. and the expertise is as well. if you fall under the queen mary catchement, you are in great hands.

3) the best resource is other parents. definitely join up here!

4) we used cloth nappies for our first. was easy. didn't regret that decision.

5) breastfeeding is wonderful if you can do it!

6) stanley, wanchai, the lanes in central, ladies market, lots of places to get great baby things. possibly don't buy too much...there will always be other newborns growing out of clothes that friends will hand down to you and you will likely get lots of gifts!

boris, congratulations on your second chance. i feel for you and your first born. any way you could write child #1 a letter and express your regret? you've obviously got a great way with words.

7)
 
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