Strange sleep development

Hi! I'm so glad you guys are discussing this! It's actually something I've been thinking a lot about lately and wanted to hear what other mums have to say. Like you, Lisa, I've always nursed my 9 month old baby to sleep at night but have been meaning to stop doing that so that he can learn to go to sleep by himself in the evenings (he does that for naps fine albeit with some crying). This is mainly to help him learn how to go back to sleep on his own when he wakes up in the middle of the night. Currently he needs help getting back to sleep when he does a night waking and the only way he can do so is if I nurse him - he won't fall asleep on the breast but somehow that comforts him to a point that when I put him back down, awake, he goes back to sleep after that. I would like him to learn that now rather than when he becomes a toddler when it would be a much harder task (his paed tells me I have waited too long already!).

Currently, his bedtime is 7pm. Sometimes he wakes just once a night (about 4-5am) and sometimes twice (2am and 5am). This is what I'm not sure about:

- If he wakes just once, say at 5am, do I use CIO in view of the fact that he's just slept 10 hours straight and maybe has had enough sleep for the night? Is it better to let him get up for the day rather than have him CIO until 7am when it's time to get up anyway?

- If he wakes twice, once at 2am (and I let him CIO back to sleep) and again at 4-5am, would it work to use CIO again for the second waking or let him get up for the day?

Currently, he manages to go back to sleep if he wakes at 2am (when I let him nurse). Lately, he hasn't been able to go back to sleep (doesn't want to sleep anymore) after his 5am waking (even with nursing), irrespective of whether he had a 2am waking :( So that's prompted me to decide I need to stop putting off the sleep training (and being a coward!).

Also for those of you who used CIO successfully, did you find the Ferber method effective or did your baby just get more agitated each time you went into the room?

Are there bad times to try CIO e.g. if bub has separation anxiety?

I hope all that made sense... really thanks in advance for even just reading, hoping to hear from some of you!
 
we ferberized my son successfully at 7/8 months. If he woke up at 2am, we definitely let him CIO. Our pediatrician (both in HK and in the US) said, our son did not need anything to drink and has enough throughout the day to sustain himself through the night. It took about 2-3 nights to get rid of the 2am wake-up. Yes, the crying is tough, but at 9 months your baby is stronger and our cried about 30-40 mins the most.

The 5am wake-up is harder as a 9 month yr old usually needs around 11 hrs of sleep at night. What would he do if you left him? Would he play in his crib? or just cry?

My son is 28 months now and sleeps through the night (finally) in a big bed, but there is the occassional 5:15am wake-up. I tend to quickly go in and give him sip of water, then walk right out - all business, no eye contact and I act as if it's still night time. This has worked almost every single time and he sleeps another hour.

Maybe put him to bed at 7:30pm? what are you doing before bedtime? Is he sufficiently tired?
 
Interesting thread - my son is 8 months and the last couple of nights gone from perfect sleeper to a bit of a nightmare.

Well, I guess some of it is jet lag as we just got back from Europe but it seems really extreme and not getting any better with time. He's waking every hour/two hours, standing up in his cot and really screaming. I go in and lie him down without eye contact and go out again but don't tend to leave him to cry for more than about 5 minutes - mainly because I feel a bit sorry for our neighbours... as it's at intervals all through the night it just doesn't seem fair on them to let him cry too long.

I'm going to continue with this for a bit longer and if it doesn't work I'll try CIO out and the neighbours (and husband) will just have to suffer.
 
Hi bumbeeno,
We slept train our son with CIO when he was 7 month old.
I meant to use a more middle of the road approach with checking. But he just got more upset when I went in. So, for the first few nights, my husband hid in his room to make sure he does not hurt himself because all the hard crying.

It looks like your son is a much better sleeper than mine. He was fully on breastmilk (I went full time pumping) before 7 month old. He used to wake up 3 to 4 times to drink a night. He never slept the recommended time amont for his age.

Since sleep training, he is doing a lot better, still an hour or so short of 14 hours of sleeping time a day, recommended time for his age.

At 11 month, he still drinks one to two times formula a night.

Listening to his crying is tough. Good luck.
 
I would def extend his bedtime to 7.30pm if you can.

What is his day time sleep like, morning and afternoon naps? Should be no more than 3 hrs in total.

You need to work out what is an acceptable wake up time for you and your family. In most CIO methods, 6am is considered the goal.

I would CIO at both 2am and 5am wakings and aim to get him up for the day at 6am. We took this approach with the 5am morning wake ups and now have ours sleeping through til 6.15am, he plays in his cot until 6.30/6.45am when we get him up.

I nursed my son to sleep at night and for naps as well and ended up with random night wakings that needed a BF to assist him back to sleep. As soon as we did CIO (took 3 days, bub was 7.5 months) we wished we had done it sooner!

At 14 months he's now a great sleeper from 7.30/45 to 6.15am now which is still early, but we can cope with it.
 
honestly, the average wake-up for little ones/young toddlers is 6 - 6:30am. Anything before is hard - at least for us as my son is then tired by 10:30am which then throws off the entire rest of the afernoon. We'll definitely take the 6:00am start! If he/she is up at 6am, then he/she is most likely well rested and ready start the day. I would just go with it......or try to put your child to bed later. ..
 
Thanks southside, carey and Leah for sharing your valuable thoughts! I had meant to respond earlier but the little guy fell ill on Friday and has only just recovered, more or less.

I actually put him to bed on Thursday night determined to start the sleep training then. Instead of nursing him to sleep, I gave him his feed a little earlier so that he wouldn't fall asleep while nursing. Guess what - he cried half-heartedly for about 5minutes and went to sleep! He woke at around 2am but after briefly fussing on and off for 15 mins (I didn't go in because his crying wasn't full-on and I thought I'd hold out) he went back to sleep until 6.30am! Then when I went in to get him... I found he had a fever! Arghh! I felt really bad about it!

Anyway to cut a long story short, I have continued putting him to bed awake and the last few nights he hardly cried before falling asleep. On all the nights (except last night) he woke briefly in the middle of the night but somehow soothed himself back to sleep and woke up for the day at 6am. Last night, he didn't wake in the middle of night (at least I did not hear him) but woke up at 5am instead. I did put him to bed a little earlier last night, though, so I may try to put him to bed at 7.30pm earliest as you guys have suggested and see if it works. Might try using CIO for a 5am wakeup too and see if he'll respond the same way your son did, Leah. With regard to falling asleep on his own at bedtime, I also thought, why didn't I do this earlier?!

Having said all that... I wonder if it's just a coincidence because he was ill. He was better on Day 3 though, and it's been about 5 days now...

In terms of daytime naps, he doesn't do more than 2 hours - 1.5 in the morning which is the reliable one and a max of 1/2 hour in the afternoon. Tried different times in the afternoon but every time, it only lasted 1/2 an hour. He seems to hold out quite well until about 7 or so, though. In answer to your question, southside, we go out everyday in the midday/afternoon for errands/lunches/playgroup/walks etc. I *think* he is sufficiently tired. Perhaps the key is that when he wakes up in the middle of the night, he needs to find himself in the same situation as that in which he fell asleep. If he fell asleep in my arms and woke up all alone in bed perhaps that prevents him from trying to go back to sleep on his own.

I'll only know if this will keep up after he's back to 100% (he is nearly there)... I see that a new thread has been opened up on this topic, perhaps I should update over there!

Thanks again!! xxxx
 
carey said:
Hi bumbeeno,
We slept train our son with CIO when he was 7 month old.
I meant to use a more middle of the road approach with checking. But he just got more upset when I went in. So, for the first few nights, my husband hid in his room to make sure he does not hurt himself because all the hard crying.

...

Listening to his crying is tough. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah... my son also gets a lot more upset when I go in and worse when I leave after that! I guess the gradual approach may not work with every kid. Although maybe I just have to tough it out with his crying. It IS hard... I always thought I was the strong one and that my husband was the one who couldn't bear the sobbing/screaming... But lately I realised I just couldn't listen to it. I have to keep telling myself it's for his own good and for the good of the family too...
 
absolutely - each child is different and responds to different sleep training methods. additionally, different parents have different thresholds for crying etc....

like bumbeeno said above, i always tell myself it's for my son's own good that he is well rested and happy in the morning. If that means 3-4 nights of crying to work through the kinks, then so be it as the pay-off is huge when he does eventually put himself to sleep, sleeps throughout the night and wakes up cheery and happy. my son cried for 1.5 hours the first night of sleep training as per the advice of the sleep fairy and now he sleeps right through. it's just called tough love! :)
 
Groan. After several days of good sleep (for everyone!), my baby's gone back to waking up between 4-5am again. I managed to push his bedtime back to 7.30pm and he goes to sleep without needing to nurse and without even crying. I just put him in his cot after a pre-bedtime routine that I haven't budged from for the past week or so. For the past couple of nights when he woke up between 4-5am I didn't go in but he just cried for a long time and didn't soothe himself back to sleep (at least not for very long). He would pause for about 15 minutes and then cry again... and before you know it, it's time to get up for the day!

Argh! I wonder if the timing of his last nap has anything to do with it. I am going to try to make sure he finishes his second nap before 3pm and see if that makes any difference. The last couple of days he took his naps after 3pm (albeit for only 1/2 an hour!).
 
Hi, I am wondering if your baby is sleeping too early. Perhaps you want to try a later sleep time and see how that works out? You can then slowly move it forward if you wish him to sleep longer?

I understand that many babies just need 9 - 10 hours of sleep at night and he could be waking up because he has had enough? Just a thought ...
 
Mummies - check out this website - it tells you how much sleep your baby should get each day.

Baby Sleep Patterns

The trick is to look at the day over a 24 hour period and how much your baby sleeps over 24 hours. It is up to you how you want to break this up either 9 hours at night and a long nap during the day or 11/12 hours at night and a shorter naps during the day.

Hang in there everyone - the best thing that you can teach your baby is how to sleep by themselves.
 
Another 5am wakeup this morning. Am wondering if he has an internal alarm that goes off at that time! Again I let him be until 6am. This can't really go on, if he wakes up at 5am he's tired by 8am and that's really too early for a morning nap :( Leah, how many days did it take before your little one stopped his 5am wakeups?

Obiwan, we put him to bed at 8.30pm one night and he woke up even earlier, at 4am! So it doesn't seem like that keeping him up would work.

I tried starting his afternoon nap a little earlier yesterday. Still woke up after only 30mins (I didn't go in right away). In total he only manages to nap for a total of 2 hours a day (1.5+0.5). Can't get him to do more than that.

These days I am waking at 4ish tensing for the first sounds of crying!
 
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Hey Bumbeeno - hang on in there and chin up :)

Lets go through the basics. Why do you think he is waking up? Is he wet, cold, hungry? Is it light in his room? Are the birds waking him up? Do you have any background noise on in his room?

Have you tried just giving him a milk bottle in his cot and leaving him?

Some babies just wake at 5am and there is nothing that you can do about it. BUT IT WILL CHANGE!!!

Hang on in there
 
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