sleeping time?

My daughter now 14 months sleeps 7.30-8pm to 7.30 -8am. She naps at 12 every day and sleeps between 1 and 2 hours. She has a bottle before bed (as much as she can drink, about 8oz).

From the day we brought her home I did bath, boob (with nursery rhyme) bed. At the beginning she slept in our room and i fed her on our bed, gave her the nursery rhyme, sang some lullaby's and put her to bed asleep (swaddled for 3 months). The bed time was not always at the same time but within an hour or so. I usually tried to bath at 6pm and then went from there. From very early on she slept longer right after that, about 4 hours, whereas during the day she would only nap for about 25 mins, feeding every 2 hours. By the time she was about 4 months she would sleep for about 6-7 hours at 'bedtime' then wake for a feed. I kept the bedroom dark and never spoke to her at night when she woke for a feed. I would pick her up feed her, pat her and put her back in her cot, if she needed more soothing then I would pat her in her cot. She progressed herself from there but in general always slept between feeds at night.

At about this time I also introduced a 'dream feed' (she would stay asleep) when I gave her a bottle of about 3oz formula at 11 right before we went to bed, and she would then sleep till about 5-6am.

I weaned her off boob at 6 months ( she was still feeding every 2 hours and it was getting too much for me) when she started solids and from then she slept all night, with a bottle before bed and a bottle in her sleep at 11 ish.

I then slowly weaned her off the dream feed (reducing by about 1oz a week) at about 9 months and she slept all night.

To this day I still recite the same nursery rhyme as I feed her her bottle in bed, she knows this is bed time then. It also works quite well if we go out and she has to go to bed later, it means I can skip a bath if it is too late. She will even put herself to sleep now as I leave her after bottle when she is awake (and I never did this when she was under one, I was one of 'those' who held and rocked baby to sleep). But she chose herself when she climbed off me for the first time when she was about 11 months and lay down on the bed herself. I was upset not to be able to hold her sleeping in my arms, but it is obviously what she needs.

We very loosely followed Tracy Hogg's method, although it didnt reall work for us until she was on formula.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks carang and nicolejoy - you guys are right, I just need to do things slowly once step at a time. Last night I put my son to bed at 9:40, around 20 minutes earlier than usual and he still just played around until his usual fall asleep time. Oh well, at least he is in bed earlier - will just keep doing that.

Obiwan - We didn't really train our son to sleep through the night - he just started sleeping for longer and longer stretches starting when he was around 6 weeks old. At 7 or 8 weeks, we were giving him his last feed at around 11 or midnight and he would last until 6ish. We actually started giving him formula at his last feed at night around that time - only 3 oz back then. Not really sure if it was the formula that did the trick or that we were giving him a measurable quantity that was bigger than what he usually took in when I breastfed him directly. A few months ago because he had rashes, I stopped giving him formula at his last feed and just gave him EBM in a bottle and he continued to sleep through the night. So I am actually thinking that what did the trick was feeding him more and by using a bottle, I was able to measure how much I gave him at the last feed at night. All other feeds I still breastfed directly. My son is almost 6 months old now, sleeps from when I put him down around 10 to anywhere between 7:30 and 8:30am. For his last meal before bedtime I breastfeed and top up with a bit of formula. He's breastfed at all other meals or given EBM in a bottle when I'm at work.

Good luck! The first month really is the hardest - afterwards it will get easier!!!
 
Obiwan said:
Thanks! For babies who sleep through the night, did it happen out of the blue one day, or does one have to 'train' the babies to do so? :)

I cannot wait for The Day, though I have a suspicion it's gonna be a long wait haha.
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My son started sleeping 7-8hrs around 16mnths old. We didn't do any 'training' like CIO. I nurse him and then he either nurses to sleep or he stops nursing and I hug and hold him until he sleeps. I think he was just ready to sleep longer then.

I consider he sleeps through the night, even though he does have one feeding- he's half asleep when he has it!

Shenzhennifer- there's no evidence that formula helps a baby sleep longer, I think that's a bit of a myth. Are you co-sleeping or bedsharing? Babies who bed-share tend to STTN later than babies who don't, but I truly believe it's completely individual. Some (lucky!) parents just get babies who STTN early. I wasn't one of them, but maybe next time!
 
Babies who bed-share tend to STTN later than babies who don't, but I truly believe it's completely individual.
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How do we know this?

For us, when we did co-sleep our son didn't sleep well at all. We have done it for several months in the past. As soon as the son rises he flutters his eyes, realizes mom and dad are there and thinks it's time to get up and start playing. We didn't sleep well either because he rolls, snores, kicks and talks in his sleep.

Are there studies that establish that babies who bed-share tend to STTN?

As far as babies drinking a bottle of formula and sleeping longer. I have no studies to quote on that but it stands to reason that babies with fuller stomachs, that are fuller for longer would have less of a reason to wake up to eat in the night. Breastmilk is digested quickly because it is very natural. Formula is "heavier" because cow's milk takes longer to digest so maybe the child would feel fuller on a bottle of formula than on breastmilk. Like I said, no studies to prove this but it does make for an interesting theory.
 
Referring to my previous post, not a quoted study:

Feeding times and frequency: Because formula digests slower than breast milk, formula fed babies usually need to eat less often than breast fed babies.
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from: Breast Milk versus Formula

Several articles also pointed to the same thing. It stands to reason that there is something to the formula-fed-->sleeping through the night theory. Even when my son was bottle fed breastmilk he was content for longer than when he was simply fed from the breast. I think it was easier for him to get the milk so he would drink faster than having to work at the breast.
 
thanka2 said:
Referring to my previous post, not a quoted study:

from: Breast Milk versus Formula

Several articles also pointed to the same thing. It stands to reason that there is something to the formula-fed-->sleeping through the night theory. Even when my son was bottle fed breastmilk he was content for longer than when he was simply fed from the breast. I think it was easier for him to get the milk so he would drink faster than having to work at the breast.
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Yes, formula takes longer to digest. That's widely recognized. But this does not mean longer, or better, sleep for baby or parents.

It also fails to take into account the increased likelihood of gas and constipation that accompany formula-feeding, and the side affects of changes in formula diet.

Based on research (see Professor of Anthropology at University of Notre Dame James McKenna's sleep lab results, and research by Paul Fleiss MD), the clinical differences between sleep patterns of BF and FF babies are to do with the REM and non-REM patterns, not in how long they sleep. Breastfed babies spend more sleep time in non-REM time and their heart rates are lower during sleep.
 
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thanka2 said:
How do we know this?

For us, when we did co-sleep our son didn't sleep well at all. We have done it for several months in the past. As soon as the son rises he flutters his eyes, realizes mom and dad are there and thinks it's time to get up and start playing. We didn't sleep well either because he rolls, snores, kicks and talks in his sleep.

Are there studies that establish that babies who bed-share tend to STTN?
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Again, have a look at McKenna's research. His sleep study lab confirms what most bed-sharing mums report - that bed-sharing leads to a synchronization of sleep patterns, frequent 'rousings' (not wakings) and frequent night nursing.

Professor McKenna speculates that millions of years of co-sleeping and night feeding have not developmentally prepared young babies to 'sleep through' in a solitary bed, involving long periods of deep sleep. Babies are in light sleep periods a lot more often than adults and it is for a reason - they are meant to eat at night. And according to McKenna, these low-level rousings, which do not awaken either the baby or the mother, give the baby practice in rousing itself. This may lessen a baby's susceptibility to some forms of SIDS which are thought to be caused by failure to arouse from deep sleep to re-establish breathing patterns.

McKenna's research also found that while many separately sleeping parents report their child STTN, it is not actually the case. Apparently some parents who do not co-sleep will often stop waking in response to a child's stirring. This is in contrast to a bed-sharing mother who will feel (usually subconsciously) every little movement and every little change in breathing or sleeping patterns.
 
Hi mums,

By reading the posts here, I notice that some of you mentioned that your babies sleep from 7ish to next day 7ish, which means 12 hours. So, does it mean they do not take any feed between the 12 hours? My son is 4 months now and I feed him formular 5 times days between every 4 hours, starting from 7am so the last feed is 11pm. He normally falls asleep after the 7pm feed but I will wake him and give him the last feed of the day at 11pm. Most of the time it is a sleep-feed.

Now, after reading the posts here, I wonder if I should NOT feed him after his 7pm feed and let him sleep from 7ish till next morning 6ish? But in that case, he will only take 4 feeds a day (180ml = 6oz). Is it enough for him? Any insight please!
 
My eldest stopped all night feeds at around 4 months of age. My youngest stopped all night feeds at 10 weeks. In both cases I noticed day time feeds increased a little in response.
 
Ox Jess - I follow Gina Ford's routines with both mine and her advice is not to stop the late dream feed until the baby is well established with his solids (e.g. 3 meals a day, one of which includes protein). We stopped my daughters 11pm feed when she was 7 months.
 
Thanks, LeahH. I will continue to feed him the 11pm meal until he starts on solid. As at the back of my mind, even if he can really sleep for 12 hours soundly, I still think no feed within 12 hours for a 4-month-old is just 'not good'. Thanks for reassuring me.
 
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