Sleep School

S

strong

Registered User
Does anyone know if there are any 'sleep schools' in HK? In Australia, many of the hospitals run sleep schools for babies under 12 months. I am moving to HK in July and will not have time to attend one before I leave, but really need to get some help with babies sleeping.

Thank you.
 
GO TO SLEEP SCHOOL BEFORE YOU LEAVE AUSTRALIA !!!!!!!!!

Despite an excellent medical care system in Hong Kong, privately available midwives, etc, etc, I could not find anyone to help me with sleep when I needed it. I was so desperate I ended up travelling back to Australia and visiting one there (twice). I'm proud to say that after a lot of hard work, I now have an excellent sleeper (touch wood).

I've heard of a sleep consultant who will do phone consultations from Australia - Tizzie. www.saveoursleep.com.

There is a real business opportunity in HK for someone with the right skills.

For a laugh, here are some of the responses I received in HK to my sleep problems:

La Leche league - breastfeed more frequently to increase milk supply - well, this left baby screaming probably with a tummy ache and me close to giving up b/f b/c of lack of sleep and soreness
Private midwife - put baby in bed with you - I've never gotten less sleep than I did that night, thinking I'd squash her - never again. Sleep when baby sleeps - well, nice idea, but baby never slept for more than half an hour at a time.
Private baby clinic - try controlled cyring (this was at 2 weeks old, no thanks)
Public baby clinic - let the maid get up to the baby at night - I didn't have a baby for the maid to attend to her needs !!

Goodluck.
 
maybe hire a professional nanny with baby nursing skills for a few nights? the amount Rent-a-Mum charge, they'd want to be able to offer some useful advice.

all those suggestions are exactly what the sleep schools in Melbourne say NOT to do. imagine feeding the baby every time it wakes; that will teach him/her to wake more, not less.

ps: that link needs the "www" taken out to work, otherwise it goes to a "placeholder" page. )
 
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The sleep schools in Australia may tell you that all the methods mentioned before to help a baby sleep are wrong but many health professionals believe that the cry it out methods used by the schools are dangerous for the baby.

The Australian Association of Infant Mental Health Policy Statement on Controlled Crying makes very compelling reading.
www.afcca.com.au/Files/Child Crying AAIMHI.doc

The two web sites that I found helpful when my baby was waking up more than I could cope with are:

8 INFANT SLEEP FACTS EVERY PARENT SHOULD KNOW
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070200.asp

and

31 WAYS TO GET YOUR BABY TO GO TO SLEEP AND STAY ASLEEP MORE EASILY
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070300.asp

Barb
 
yes, but that afcca document only says crying is a problem if it indicates distress. much controlled crying or crying it out only means leaving them protesting, which is different.

speaking from the pov of nearly four months of being woken between four and six times a night, there comes a point where you have to balance the mothers' health and its effects on the baby against attachment parenting methods. after trying pretty much everything on both those sites, (except co-sleeping as it makes my sleep and my baby's sleep worse) I'm left with nothing but some form of controlled crying.

this is what Dr Sears says at the end of that document, after all the stuff about just waiting for them to grow out of it:

"Even though you understand why babies are prone to nightwaking, you realize it's still important for parents and babies to get a restful night's sleep, otherwise, baby, the parents, and their relationship won't thrive."

I am probably risking starting a sleep methods argument here, but he's contradicted himself - "just wait, but make sure you get sleep as well" - and not really offered any practical solution to women in my situation.

exhausted, depressed mothers shouldn't be told they just have to put up with it by that sort of guilt-mongering
 
Agree with controlled crying but it shouldn't be done before a baby is a minimum of 6 months old - current health professional recommendations.

To the original poster - I'd be very surprised if you can get anyone to do it for you in HK and that includes professional nannies in HK - I tried to bribe people to do it! We did have someone who walked us through the whole process and provided moral support but ultimately it was down to us and it actually wasn't as awful as we imagined - 3 days and she slept through although she isn't now!

If you want to know who advised us then send me a private message.
 
When my baby was 10 weeks old, I was totally miserable. He couldn't sleep, we couldn't sleep, and the lack of sleep meant I didn't produce enough milk. It was awful.

Then a mother I know introduced me to "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth, and I thought yeah, as if I would have the time to read. Well... aren't I ever glad I did read that book. The methods might not be suitable to every mother or every child, but they worked perfectly well for us. It was so hard on the parents (more than the child) at first, but I'm still overwhelmed by the result. I read the book when our son was 11 weeks old, started introducing the method when he was 3 months old, and when he turned 3 1/2 months old, he slept throught the night (8:45 to 8:45). And his last bottle was at about 8 p.m. Up until 15 months old, he slept from 7 to 7, plus 3 naps a day! Now at 16 months old, he still has 2 naps a day, totalling about 3 hours. And he tells us when he wants to go to sleep. We can't be any happier.

I got the book through Amazon.com. Good Luck.
 
My baby's obviously a hard case, because I've just finished Weissbluth's "Sleep Well" and still have the problem. To be honest, though I took all his points about good napping etc on board, I couldn't find anything in it to address our current specific problem, which is not *getting* him to sleep, but stopping him waking again 90 minutes later.

I did find that Weissbluth spent a lot of space on case studies and long explanations of why sleep was good - and why parents may not understand how to promote it - and even a chapter on how mothers' anxiety/marital problems can be to blame (guilt again!), Sleep Well didn't actually give a point-by-point guide, and he seems to assume that you're either rocking the baby to sleep (bad) or going all the way to full-bore crying it out (good, he says). maybe the book you read is better.

and you're right that there's no point trying to train smaller babies. mine is seven months and the waking started when he was about 15 weeks.
 
The worst thing about night wakings is that it can be something different everytime that wakes them up...too hot, too cold, teething, sickness, neighbours taking a shower at 3.00am, dogs barking, wet nappy...every morning I would try and identify the problem and how to solve it next time.

I know that basically it's a survival technique, but I wish there would be more research into what makes individual babies better sleepers then others, and also help you identify the triggers for your baby.

As a second time mum I can only add that at least you learn to sleep better during shorter times. And breastfeeding certainly helped me settle my baby at night quickly and peacefully...although as aldougie will agree, this was probably the cause of most of her night wakings from the time she was 9 months old (hmmmm, it's 3.00am...a nice little snack would be nice!)
 
I have been reading this thread with interest and my heart goes out to all those parents who are struggling with the issue. Yes, the guilt factor is enormous as somehow everyone seems to lay the blame of "failure" at the Mother's feet which is a load of rubbish!
I am a health visitor (bit like a private midwife but with expertise in 0-5 year age group). I do home visits and am frequently asked to help with sleep training and settling the baby into a routine. It's never an easy task and I try to treat each baby as an individual.
There are many different schools of thought on how this can/should be done but to be honest I think the charactor of the child is a big factor and it isn't a simple recipe which if followed properly achieves the perfect result. All babies are different and some babies sleep well during the day but badly at night. Others settle quite easily but wake after 10 minutes (or sooner!). Of my own 3 children I had one who woke every hour at night for 10 months but 2 who slept reasonably well. All of them slept for a good 2 hours every morning. A placid "easy" baby will generally settle easily into sleep routines whilst a "high maintenance baby" takes a long time. Often these babies are bright fast learning toddlers, if it's any consolation. The other thing to note is that all babies go through unsettled periods when they are experiencing a growth spurt or teething.

Controlled crying is generally very effective after 6 months but can be utterly miserable and heart renching and you all (maid included) have to be totally comitted and supportive. Other obvious factors such as darkening the room at night etc help but I'm sure you have all tried them anyway. I HATE to say this but often it easier once breast feeding is finished. Anyway, I won't write an essay as there are many good web sites to get tips from. I know this sounds patronising but it won't go on for ever and try to give the baby to someone else if only for a short time to give you a break
Yvonne
 
For people who don't like the idea of controlled crying, I can recommend "The no-cry sleep solution" by Elizabeth Pantley which I ordered from Geobaby. It does give guidance for a plan of action (much more gradual than controlled crying), which entails logging your baby's routine, devising a realistic goal for the next 10 days, when progress can be evaluated and the plan for the next 10 days drawn up. It also gives reassurance about what can be expected of babies of various ages.
 
barbwong - I went to sleep school in Australia twice - at 6 weeks and 3 months. At that age they DO NOT advise you to cry it out, or controllled crying. Well, the one I went to didn't. They teach you about hands on settling and helping the baby to teach itself to go to sleep. There is some crying involved, but the parent is always in the room. My baby cried a lot less using these methods than she did when having no sleep. Oh yeah, and I cried a lot less too !! I was told I was on my way to PND (which I always thought was just sleep deprivation for me) and sleep school saved me.

J_s couldn't agree with you more. Happy mum=happy bub. If you do have to cry it out, don't feel guilty for one second.

Yvonne - thanks for your sensible advice. WIsh I'd found you at the right time.
 
Yvonne, what a breath of fresh air you are! seriously, do you do private consultations? maybe I can hire you when we arrive in June?

the breastfeeding thing is a dilemma - my paediatrician told me breastfed babies wake more often, and I did get a bit cross that no one has warned me of that. I still would have fed him, but I feel that the "breast is best" brigade have manipulated the information given to mothers a bit.

when we get to HK and change apartments after 10 days, I plan to stay in the old one (same building) for one sweet night of sleep. of course I can't sleep if he's crying elsewhere in the house.

oh and maid included? what maid?:burnout: I'll be lucky if I can get one afternoon's care a week - we're only coming for 6 months and will be in a smaller apartment, and a maid is really not an option. I do realise that a lot of women on the board will have helpers and that everyone who cares for a baby has to have the same approach, though.

it's 8.30 pm here, that's my bedtime. I figure if I can't get more than 90 minutes sleep at a time, I might as well get the volume. sigh.
 
Sleep school/ sleep problem for a 4.5months old

Anyone know if there is a sleep school in HK now? The thread on this topic was dated (back in 2004) when they said there isnt any.

I am desperately needing advice on how to put my baby of 4.5 months to sleep!!! She took cat nap of less than 30min each time during the day, and wakes up almost every hour at night!!! It is not hunger or wet nappies that wakes her up, as she will wake up even after I fed her (5-6oz of formula every 3-4 hourly) and changed her nappy!!! Though it was relatively 'easy' to put her back to sleep all the way up to 3am (by giving her the dummy) - the task become very difficult after that. I can see that she is very tired and is trying to sleep but she just couldnt! Then she will start to throw tantrum and cry... all the way till 7-8am before she sleeps again. But of more concerns to me is - why cant she stay asleep??? Why is she waking up every 15min during the day, and every hour during the night??? I am so exhausted from waking up every hour to attend to her, and then waking up and staying awake from 3-4am onwards!!!

I tried contacting Adventist and Canossa hospitals to ask about their sleep clinic. I have not heard from Adventist yet. But Canossa was very helpful - they called me the very next day. Unfortunately, the sleep clinic is catered to 'older' children/ adults. So they refer me to their well baby clinic. The midwifes there are very helpful and gave me some advice. I tried some of them, like let her sleep on her side with 2 pillows - one in front and one at the back. But it didnt work. She still wakes up every hour. I tried controlled crying, and it doesnt work too. I tried keeping her awake during the day hoping she will really tired out at night and sleep through, but she wakes up 10min later and keep waking up the whole night too!!!

I have read 'Healthy sleep habit, happy child' by Marc Weissbluth. It worked with my elder daughter who is now over 2 years old (I started training her to sleep on her own around 4 months), but doesnt work with my 4.5months!!! Anyone with anymore tips? Or know anyone who might be able to help??? Midwifes? Doctors? Specialists???
 
they have a sleep clinic at annerley midwives (lisetd here at geobaby) maybe you can try calling them. i have similar problems with my girl when she was that age. i don't remember how we made thru it. now she just wakes up every 3 hours... (& she's 2 already). and i'll call their sleep clinic soon.

good luck~!
 
I've already recommended the Elizabeth Pantley book earlier in this thread.

In Discovery Bay, Sue Sutton at the DB medical centre (a health visitor from the UK) also advertises sleep training. I believe she is a fan of the Pantley gentle methods.
 
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I would recommend the book "Good Night, Sleep Tight" by Kim West. She's known as the Sleep Lady and doesn't use 'crying it out' and has a gentle technique to teach babies to learn how to sleep
 
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