should i let her cry it out?

J

joannek

Registered User
she's already 21 mths old. she's always carried or pat to sleep. she wakes up every 2-3hrs, calling out for someone. if ignored, she'd start wailing. if you answer her thru the 2 way monitor, she continues to wail, within 1-2 minutes, she'd be screaming. if i go in soon enough, she just needs to be patted for 10-15mins, and she'd fall back to sleep. if you ignores her, she screams, cries & throw up within 3-4 mins. then it takes another hours to put her back to sleep.

i am seriously considering to let her cry it out, even if it means, changing clothes & bedsheet several times a night. altho i don't want to let her cry it out, i have no other resort. Pls help!!:frown:
 
I am sorry to hear about your daughter's sleeping situation. Yes, letting her cry to sleep might be the way to train her. But you can do that without much mess by doing:

1. Feed her dinner at least 2-3 hours before putting her down. My daughter threw up when she wailed right before bed time this week. Then I realize I fed her too much and too late.

2. Stick to your strategy for at least 3 days straight and do it over a weekend so you don't disturb your neighbor's sleep for work. I heard toddlers usually need 3 days to break their habits.

3. Let her nap on her own during the day if she isn't already. The more she naps, the better she sleeps at night. It does not seem to make sense. But if a toddler does not nap well, he/she is too tired to fall asleep and becomes very fussy.
 
I hate the idea of controlled crying so this will be a very biased post.

I really can?t understand how letting a child cry can in anyway improve your communication and thus your relationship with him. And I ask the people who are so in favour of the cry it out method who are they doing it for, their child or themselves. I don?t believe the argument that this is the only way to get a good night?s sleep for the parents. Surely with creative thought there is another way without upsetting the child so much.

I realise that staying with your child may not be convenient but then did you have children to be convenient? I know I had lots of reasons to have children but I never thought for one moment that it was going to be easy. Your baby is only 21 months, my 13 year old has been sleeping with me for the last three nights because he?s ill. Each night he?s woken up in the early hours and needed medicine. This hasn?t been great fun for me but isn?t this just the sort of thing you do for your children ? after all if you don?t, who will?

The whole philosophy of parenting seems to have moved from looking after the child to fitting the child into our lives. And our lives have become so busy that the time we wish to interact with our children is becoming shorter and shorter. Then because the children actually want more from us we are resorting to methods such as cry it out. Not for their good but for ours ? so we can continue to live our busy lives without inconvenience.

Now to back up my views!

The following is taken from the The Australian Association of Infant Mental Health?s Policy Statement on Controlled Crying (if you want a copy of this e-mail me at [email protected])

? Almost all children grow out of the need to wake at night and be reassured by three or four years of age, many much earlier than this.

? Infants are more likely to develop secure attachments when their distress is responded to promptly, consistently and appropriately. Secure attachments in infancy are the foundation for good adult mental health.

? Infants whose parents respond and attend to their crying promptly, learn to settle more quickly in the long run, as they become secure in the knowledge that their needs for emotional comfort will be met.

? Infants from about six months of age suffer from differing degrees of anxiety when separated from their carers. This continues until they can learn that their carers will return when they leave, and that they are safe. This learning may take up to three years.

? Waking in older infants and young children may be due to separation anxiety, and in these cases sleeping with or next to a parent is a valid option. This often enables all to get a good night's sleep.

? Any methods to assist parents in getting a good night?s sleep should not compromise the infant's developmental and emotional needs.

? If "controlled crying" is to be used it would be most appropriate after the child has an understanding of the meaning of the parent's words, to know that the parent will be coming back and to be able to feel safe without the parent's presence. Developmentally this takes about three years. This varies between children and observing children and responding to their cues is the best way to assess when a child feels safe sleeping alone.
 
barbwong, i TOTALLY agree with you!! that is why we attaned to her every need & she has become a very confident & happy child (my friends who are kindergarten teachers in Canada were actually amazed at how confident she is at sucj a young age, which confirms my choice of care for her is right). :Butbut the thing is, her waking up so frequently & needed to be pat for 15 mins every 2-3 hours has left every one in poor health. she's sick every 6 weeks (although she's happy & playful everyday even when her nose is runny & coughing). we're tired everyday and lacking sleep & our health is also deteriating. i would NEVER have thought this crying out method would be on MY table if it wasn't a health concern..... ( i am battling & was weeping as i was typing this thread question.)
 
plus we do attend to her very promptly, never more than 30 seconds, i dare say. i have tried to talk to her about it, and explain to her that she can go back to sleep on her on when she wakes up in the middle of the night and how we all do. and how it's gonna make us very tired & it's a selfish thing to do. she looks at me, smiles & says "no" very firmly. she obviously wants to be pat in the middle of night & she loves it.
 
If you feel that lack of sleep is affecting your health, and everyone else?s in the family, what have you done to get more sleep? Do you take afternoon naps? Does your daughter? One good way of getting more sleep and so being able to cope with disturbed nights is to sleep during the day.

My youngest daughter went through a phase of wanting to get up and play in the middle of the night. I can assure you this was the last thing I wanted to do. But she wasn?t interested in sleeping anymore and I didn?t want her disturbing the rest of the family, who needed to sleep at night so they could work and study during the day. So I would put the TV on and we?d lie together on the settee. Most often we?d fall asleep together and I?d wake up later and move us back to bed. During this phase afternoon naps were a God send.

I have another friend, whose children are now school age, who still has afternoon naps ? I know never to ring her between 1:00 pm and 3:00 pm. In fact listening to her talk is quite funny, she sounds like she?s talking about a toddler. ?I?ve missed my nap twice this week and I?m getting so irritable ? I even shouted at the kids before dinner time today!?

Maybe afternoon naps won?t help you but I believe there must be a solution it is just a matter of finding it.

Best wishes,
Barb
 
she takes a nap between 12 noon to 1 pm. sometimes for 45 mins - 1.30 hrs. when she takes a nap, i cook her lunch, and runs to the supermarket or other errands. i do have a helper but she also needs to do housework. by the time i'm done with making lunch & errands, she's up. the only thing that i can do is sleep before 9pm so that i can manage with her waking up at night. but then nothing gets done, she sleeps between 7-8pm, by the time she sleeps, i have dinner & a little private time with hubby and i have to sleep. that's what i used to do when i was nursing her, cos she was nursing every 3 hrs.
 
It is very tempting to use the time that a child naps to get things done. But if you really believe that your health is suffering from lack of sleep this is an ideal time to rest even if you can?t sleep.

I know that everything takes much longer when you have the ?help? of a little one. But remember that you are doing two jobs in one, the original job and looking after your child too.

If you really believe that you can?t rest while your daughter is napping maybe there is another time for you to catch up on sleep. How about an early night and foregoing the private time with your husband every now and then? Or maybe asking your helper to take your daughter to the park so you can have a nap?

You don?t have to do the same thing every day but if your health is suffering you do need to find someway of getting more rest.

Remember this is not a life sentence your daughter will grow up and won?t be this needy for ever. And by answering her needs I?m sure you will have a better relationship than if you don?t.

Barb
 
Go with what you feel is right

Joanne,

My baby has had problems sleeping as well. Same that she needs to be rocked with a pacifier to sleep and if the pacifier falls out, she wails looking for it. I have since read 3 sleeping books:

The No Cry Sleep Solution - Elizabeth Pantley
Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child - Dr. Marc Weissbluth
The Baby Sleep Book - Dr. Sears (Family of Sears)

All methods of sleep training are different and I have tried the cry-it-out for a few days with success only to elapse back into her usual pattern. In the end, CIO didn't feel right to me or my husband and so we've made some improvements in that she co-sleeps now (from sleeping independently in her crib) and wakes up less frequently at night (along with a few other experiments with music, singing, fathering down, nursing to sleep, etc..)

I know there are many variations of getting children to sleep by themselves and you will find parents believing, trying and endorsing many of them, but in the end, it's deep down what feels RIGHT to you as a parent. CIO didn't and never clicked with my husband and I and although it was giving results (cried for 2 minutes at our best attempt and only at night - not naps), in the very end, we both opted out to try other solutions.

I won't promote any solution, but if it doesn't feel right to you, then why continue with it? This is what our motherly instincts are for. Explore multiple options and one-day you will find a comprising solution to all parties.

All the best & g'luck,
Lisa
 
Thanks, Lisa, that was very re-assuring knowing that i have been doing the right thing & trusting my instincts. after reading what barb has to say, (& thanks again for taking the time to write, barb) i think i'll let rest the CIO solution. as at last time i wrote, little girl's been sleeping better (i don't know what happened, i just kept telling her that she cannot be so selfish as to always call out at night). she's only waken up once for milk & once to pat (instead of 4 times before) for the past 2 nights. meanwhile, i'll see whether health has anything to do with it. i'm bringing her to see a new homeopath, and i'll see whether he can do sth about it. she's been scratching her skin a lot, so maybe that's why she kept waking up.....

barb, i'm less worried about my health than hers. i have been turning in at 8-9pm about twice a week. it's more her health i'm concerned. i thought if she keeps waking up at night & she wakes up naturally at around the same time despite how long she's slept (i never wake her, we've always let her wake up naturally, be it her nap or morning), she's obviously started a dark circle around her eye since she's been waking up so many times at night.

i still would like more parent to share with me their experience with their child's sleeping problems. so that i know mine isn't the only one who still wakes up for milk (at 21mths & she eats well during the day!!), plus another several times a night.
 
one more thing, i tried to co-sleep with her, but she doesn't like it, she prefers to sleep in her cot. (how weird is that?)
 
Joanne,

I used to have a similar problem with my son, now 3 yrs 3 mths old.

He was ill every 6 weeks and worsen to more frequent "colds". He also seemed OK except having a runny nose. He used to wake up, before 1 yo, 7 to 8 times a night but NOT for feeds. Before 2.5 yo, he woke up 2 to 3 times, always at 12 midnight (like an alarm) and then somewhere between 2am to 4am.

Even as a baby, he seldom slept for 10 hrs TOTAL the whole day.

I found out the hard way that he was allergic to milk. That's why he was having "colds". It was actually his reaction to milk allergy. Because he was allergic to it, he was not digesting his milk properly and he woke up at night time. As he grew older, he had more solids and less milk, he woke up less frequent but still woke up at night.

We cut off all cow's milk and then started on a special diet recommended by the nutritionist to start healing his guts. Within 2 months, he slept for 8 hours and now, 7 months into his special diet and NO milk, he v v often sleeps for 10 hrs at night + 1 to 2 hrs afo naps.

You may wish to get his blood tested for any food allergies.

Rgds

e
 
my son is 21.5 months. he wakes up usually 1-2 times per night. he will drink an entire 9 oz bottle of milk throughout the night even though he eats relatively well and has another 9oz bottle before bed.

our problem is that he's been in a proper bed since he was 13 months old. he can get out of bed easily on his own and doesn't like sleeping on his own at night. he's fine during hte day. we've tried nightlights, a special toy, putting the milk nearby, going in and patting him to sleep... the only two things that work: we get into bed with him or bring him into bed with us.

i have a feeling that it's gotten worse in the past few months as our house has been a little crazy. had friends come for a week, so he slept in our room, then i went into hospital for 4 nights, then came home and two days later a single mum and her newborn babies came to stay for about a week, then they moved to a friend of mine's house, then two days later i was back in hospital for 5 days, then home for two, then back for 3 days.. the poor kid has no idea what the heck is going on or if i'll be here when he wakes up. i figure that eventually he'll just sleep throuhg on his own. once he feels more secure. i don't know many teenagers that still sleep with parents, so i know there must be an end in sight.

joannek, you're not alone!
 
cemily,
one of the homeopaths that she's seen has already suggested that she might be allergic to cow's milk. so we switched her to organic goat's formula since july. we were in canada then, and she hasn't been sick for the 3 mths that we were away. once we got back to hk in sept, she started getting sick again late sept, then now. now her new homeopath suggests that i cut her goat's milk. i tried but she was crying (like really crying & not tantrum cry) when i mixed her bedtime feed with 1/2 soy (she's fine with soy milk if it's breakfast or at other meals). so what did your son drink when you didn't give her milk?

carang, same here. she was sleeping where and then they took off the aircon cos of the external wall replacement work they're doing on the whole bldg. that's when she woke up 7 times a night. but luckily after a month of that, we've finally managed to find the most comfortable way for her to sleep (2 fans to make sure there's enuf ventilation, a very strong air-purifier to screen the dust, 0.5 tog, long sleeve instead of short sleeve).

the good news is, last night she only woke up once for milk at midnight last night & slept thru 6.30am!!! i am so happy this morning.
 
you're lucky! my boy woke up at 10:30pm and wouldn't go back to sleep. finally at around 1:15 am, he fell asleep then woke up at 6;30am! god, i'm tired today!
 
o.. i totally feel for u.... sounds like our children are at the same age & both spirited!!

when was your son born? early feb? my daughter was born feb 7.
 
feb 12... he was 3 weeks early...he was due on march 4...
next one is due march 3, but going to try to schedule a c-section on feb 13....

should never forget a birthday...

i'm trying to toilet train him now...he's doing really well with the wee...but he's scared to poo in the potty...everytime he wees though, he lets out a squeal for joy and yells "yeah!" with his hands up in the air...
any idea how i can get him to poo in the potty?
 
i am also in the midst of TT-ing her. sometimes she'd poo, but only wees when we've managed a good timing (say dry diaper for 1 or 2 hrs).

i started off really early (as in first 3 months) whenever she poos, she'd have to go on "poo poo position". we held her legs separate as in she is sitting between our knees (adult regular sit position with open thighs). we waited til she's done, and ask "finish?". she obviously didn't respond then. then when she could sit on her own, when we see that she's pooing, we let her sit on the potty on the floor. then when she was older (maybe after one year), we let her sit on the adapter on the toilet. then she knows she needs to sit somewhere to poo. she doesn't resent the potty now, but sometime when we notice that she's pooing, if we ask her if she's poo-pooing, she'd said "no". probably cos she doesn't want to be disturbed. but sometimes, if we can catch her before she poos, she'd say yes to "you wanna sit on the potty?" or sometimes, if she wants to, she'll point at her bum & say "poo poo".

so i think it's getting him used to sitting on the potty when he's pooing (diaper & all). i think at this age sometimes they don't want to be bothered when they're poo-ing. i think the important thing to let them know that they should poo in the potty. whether they can really matters less. it's the concept.
 
You'll like the Elizabeth Pantley book an earlier poster recommended. It will provide you some more reassurance that your baby is not abnormal, as well as some practical suggestions for gradual change.

From my own experience, I found the older my daughter got, the more she understood. She has gone through phases of sleeping well and waking lots since about 16mo (now 3yo). During wakeful phases I talked to her a lot about how nighttime is for sleeping, there was no milk until morning, etc, and she gradually understood more. We had a book about Mr Lazy who was always falling asleep so I told her to do what Mr Lazy does (yawns, yawns again, then falls asleep), or suck her comfort object - other similar strategies might work for you. If she doesn't like co-sleeping, how about a mattress on the floor next to your bed?

We had at least a year of her mostly sleeping through the night, but now at 3yo she is starting to have some fear of the dark and imaginary scary things, so sometimes waking again - parenthood always throws up new challenges! But it's swings and roundabouts: at least she is starting to have some consideration for others such as Mummy needing sleep at night, and noticing what a grumpy cow Mummy is when she doesn't get enough sleep...
 
hi there,

just my thoughts on the whole controlled crying method - I was VERY anti-any sort of crying method to sleep train my now 22month old son. He was breastfed exclusively from birth till he was 12 months old and that didn't help matters as I was just nurse him until he fell asleep and for day naps he was bounced to sleep. He had no problems sleeping through the night but would constantly wail out (about 3-5 times a night) and require a soothing rub or pat before going back to sleep - the whole putting down to sleep process was becoming exhausting for all in the family. I tried all sorts of methods including sessions with a sleep therapist from Annerley and books like Elizabeth Pantley and they DIDNT work, he was even more distressed and I was even more exhausted and fustrated (and had completely wreaked an already weak back). Finally from sheer desperation, at about 17 months old I tried the controlled crying method - the first 2 days were hell BUT by the 4th sleep (ie day 2) he went into his cot without protest and by Day 4, he would say after his milk, "cottie now!".....since then he has slept better through the night (no calling out at all) and much happier and more settled in his personal space (he sleeps in his own room by himself) and we are of course better rested and able to function better as parents. While I don't go round telling everyone they should do the controlled crying method, one shouldn't feel guilty and a bad parent if you have exhausted all other options and have to resort to this one. Your bond with your child is NOT going to be affect NOR will he need therapy years later becos his mother let him cry it out!!!! Alot of mothers are wracked with guilt and suffer prolonged sleep deprivation and exhaustion for something they shouldn't...I recall thinking at that time why I didn't do it earlier!!!!!! While gentler methods might work for some parents and some kids, it doesn't work for everyone......
 
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