settling issues - 8 month old

D

Daya

Registered User
Any advice here would be much appreciated.

We have a beautiful 8 month old, who is not, and has never been, a great sleeper. She's a cheerful and happy little thing in the day and she naps well. Our main problem is that she has such a tough time settling at night, and then wakes quite often and needs help to get back to sleep.

We will not leave her to cry, but we have worked at getting her used to putting herself to sleep. Before naps and bedtime, we rock her until she is calm, then lay her down. She often fusses a little, and if she really cries out, we go to her and soothe her. At nap times, this works great. Often all it takes is a kiss on the head, she looks at us, then turns and closes her eyes. At night however, she tosses and turns and kicks her legs. She just seems unable to calm down properly. Often when she is just starting to calm and lie still, she'll let out a cry and work herself up again.

We have a repeat of this in the night when she wakes. Sometimes I'm able to feed her back to sleep with little fuss, but if that doesn't work, we go through the whole thing over again.

We're both getting really tired, and I guess we're just mostly confused and frustrated by knowing that she is able to settle quickly and easily in the day, yet seems unable to do the same at bedtime and in the night.

I'm hoping some kind soul will have a light bulb moment on my behalf and say 'have you tried.....' and all our problems will be over. :) Unlikely I know, but any advice you can offer will be gratefully received.
 
How much sleep is she getting?

Could she have too much day time sleep?

Is her last nap close to her night sleep?

These are some possible reasons why she doesn't settle well at night. Otherwise you may have to sleep train her at night.
 
Daya,
Your baby sounds like she is a superb little girl. You have done so well.
Obiwan may have switched on the lightbulb. Her questions are exactly the information that we need to answer your queries.
Your delightful, happy baby seems to love her sleep and naps during the day, but may be having too many, for too long. Do let us know what her schedule is usually and we can give our ideas.
Also, I couldn't quite work out whether you are breastfeeding her, if so, what is her breastfeeding pattern? If you are, and she is sleeping a lot during the day, is she missing feeds and then wanting to make up for it at night?
I had a baby boy who was so busy during the day, he didn't want to breastfeed during the day, but would make up for it all night!

If your baby is sleeping during the day, ensure that you don't try to catch up on chores, but lie down and sleep at the same time as her, if at all possible. You still have your body to catch up and repair after pregnancy and childbirth, and so take this opportunity. You are so lucky, some mommies are so desperate for their baby to sleep at all during the day, but it does sound like she is a tiny bit topsy turvy.
If you are formula feeding and adding solids, then tell us what the schedule is, so we can offer some ideas.

As Obiwan suggested, sleep training, may be your answer. I am not completely opposed to helping a baby learn to sleep at night. One daughter, who was sleep trained at 9 months of age, is the only child of mine who settles to sleep when she is tired and doesn't fight sleep for the love of night-time activity.
 
Thanks so much to you both for replying. Hopefully I can give you some useful information. You're right that we are lucky she sleeps in the day. She used to be a terrible catnapper, so i know what its like to be desperate for the day sleep!

She's recently gone from three naps to two. The length of these varies. They were quite long (1-2 hours), but now mostly just a little over 1 hour, sometimes one and a half. We stick to a pattern, rather than a routine, so the times vary a bit, but our days usually go something like this:

Wake up (about 6:30am), breakfast (solids), breast feed, nap (about two and a half hours after she wakes)
Wake up, breast feed, lunch (solids), breast feed, nap (about three hours after she wakes)
Wake up (no later than 4:30pm), breast feed, dinner (solids), bath, breast feed, bed (usually 7 to 7:30pm)
She then usually wakes twice for a feed, once at around 11 or 11:30 and again at about 3:30 or 4
She sometimes wakes before then too, but we can usually get her back to sleep without feeding.
I have been struggling with when/how much to breast feed her since she dropped her third nap. I was feeding once each wake time, but that doesn't seem enough now she only has three wake times. I do find though that she often won't take very much and is very distracted by the world around her, but if I only feed her once per cycle, I'm concerned she will be hungry. ???
Thanks again so much for taking the time to offer suggestions and support. It's very kind of you.
 
Daya,
Your baby sounds perfect! Enjoy this time because although it is demanding to you, she seems to have been in a near perfect pattern. Make sure that you rest when she is resting. This will allow you to cope with her demanding your attention at night.
I will look into this some more and give it more thought, however in the meantime, I have a couple of suggestions and also more questions.
My questions are;
1. If your baby sleeps at around 9am, two and a half hours after she wakes up, how long does she sleep during this nap? You may need to keep this sleep shorter, but in order to decide, let us know the sleep length.
2. For the afternoon nap, how long is she sleeping?
3. How long are you breastfeeding her for each feed? Are you feeding from both breasts per feed?
4. Are your breasts soft or full feeling before a feed?
5. In the morning, you feed your baby breakfast before you breastfeed, is there a reason for this? Your breasts should feel full when you wake up, so I am surprised that, the first thing you do with her, is not bring her for a breastfeed.
Because of this, I'm wondering whether you may be not breastfeeding her for long enough or frequent enough. Again, to determine this, I need you to provide more information.
You may want to switch the breakfast with a breastfeed first, so that her first hungry meal is from you. Afterwards, you can give her breakfast. What does she eat for breaskfast?
6. Have you ever had mastitis? I need to know your history of any breastfeeding issues that you may have faced.
7. What are you eating? What is your diet like? At 4.30pm you need to be eating something like a sandwich, in order to keep a good breast supply for the afternoon/ evening.
8. Can you identify a time in the day when she can take an extra breastfeed? What time of day would this be?
9. Do you take her out for walks in her stroller? What social activites do you take her to?
10. You are fabulous and I congratulate you on your breastfeeding. She is a lucky baby and every drop that she gets is pure white 'gold'. She sounds such a good natured baby and I assume that her skin is healthy. She sounds healthy and I assume that she has had no medical problems or that there are no concerns about her health. Is this correct?

I'm delighted to help, if I can. Write back, please!
 
My baby is 7 months old and wakes up frequently at night (every 1.5-2 hours). I nurse her back to sleep. She doesn't always drink milk per se, but falls asleep suckling. I find this is the easiest way to deal with it, because if she wakes up fully, she cries and screams, and it becomes difficult to calm her down.
 
We had similar issues Daya, at a similar age. We used sleep training which was startlingly effective for us - within 3 nights our baby could fall asleep in a few minutes without being held and a week later she could self-settle when waking up at night.

The first 2 nights were tough - crying baby, parents trying to soothe her but once she realised she could cry cry cry and wouldn't get picked up she stopped the crying to a large extent. I know this doesn't work with every child, and I was stunned it worked with ours.... think it is worth a try at least - we were prepared to preserve for a week if it didn't work but it turns out 2 days was enough to see a significant change in her behavior.

We didn't use the full on Ferber method of walking out the room and letting her cry it out for increasingly longer intervals - instead we stayed in the room and calmed her with singing and patting.

Good luck with whatever you try!
 
Catan,
Does this suit you? I ask because every Mommie is different and this may be the way you wish to care for your baby. I can certainly identify with you and this method of breastfeeding. I have certainly managed to live this this way, for numerous babies. At some point you may get tired of your baby waking every one to two hours during the night. You may wish to regulate her schedule so that you have a more peaceful night.
Maybe you wish to observe her patterns for a few days and see whether there are any slight adjustments or improvements that can be made in her daytime routine in order to enable her to be more settled at night.
This is only meant to be a kind thought, and I think that you are fantastic to have some much commitment to breastfeeding and fulfilling the needs of your baby!
 
When my baby was younger, she used to sleep in 3-5 hour stretches at night. This stopped around 4 months, when she started getting distracted nursing during the day, she began to nurse more frequently and efficiently at night. I let her nurse whenever she wants so that she gains weight sufficiently and my milk supply stays up to meet her needs. So far it's been working. I don't feel tired during the day and don't nap at all. Baby naps a few times a day, maybe 30-60 minutes at a time.

Earlier, I was advised by her ped to nurse her more during the day so she sleeps at night, and I tried this with no success. She won't nurse when she's not interested, and she won't stay awake when she's sleepy. Babies have a mind of their own! I guess I am adjusting myself to suit her. I fall asleep once she's latched on at night... I'm so used to it I barely notice it anymore. I manage to get 6-7 hours of sleep at night, albeit interrupted.

My husband sleeps in a separate room because the night waking bothers him. Occasionally, our baby starts crying a lot and screams at night (teething), and this makes it very difficult for us both. So our routine now is working.


MommieMid said:
Catan,
Does this suit you? I ask because every Mommie is different and this may be the way you wish to care for your baby. I can certainly identify with you and this method of breastfeeding. I have certainly managed to live this this way, for numerous babies. At some point you may get tired of your baby waking every one to two hours during the night. You may wish to regulate her schedule so that you have a more peaceful night.
Maybe you wish to observe her patterns for a few days and see whether there are any slight adjustments or improvements that can be made in her daytime routine in order to enable her to be more settled at night.
This is only meant to be a kind thought, and I think that you are fantastic to have some much commitment to breastfeeding and fulfilling the needs of your baby!
Click to expand...
 
We "cluster feed" before bedtime -- I let her take as much milk as she wants. Usually, during the day, we have structured time feeds. But between 8-10 pm, she just feeds and feeds. Usually, there's a bottle at 8, followed by breastfeeding. That way we know she is 100% full, and doesn't get hungry at night.

Also, we use a later bedtime than most. She takes a brief sleep at 7-ish, and wakes up at 8 for her bottle. Then we feed and feed till 10 pm. Then she sleeps from 11pm till the next morning.

I know other moms use 7 or 8 pm bedtimes, but I find it too early. I know she's not going to sleep for 12 hours straight. So, instead, we do the opposite. I make sure she's awake and eating from 8-10pm, so she's really exhausted by 10:30 or 11. She falls asleep on the breast, lies down in bed, and usually doesn't get up till 8am.

Good luck!
 
Dear all,
Thanks so much for your time and replies. As I'm sure you all know, it can feel a little like you're the only one with any concerns until you speak to others. Often it's just nice to know that my baby is totally normal, and it's great to get other people's ideas so we can try something new.
Newdad, it really is fantastic for you that your baby is able to settle so well now. We tried staying with our little one, but not picking her up one night and I couldn't bear to hear her cry, so I picked her up and managed only to confuse her which was horrible. I think we have to be consistent like you were, but I'm just not up to it.
Catan, at the moment, I'm pretty much doing what you're doing, the difference is that I'm not managing to fall right back to sleep anymore. I used to, so I don't know why I'm waking up so fully at the moment. It is making me tired though.
Gracey, such a long stretch of sleep sounds amazing... I just don't think I could keep my baby up so late. She's unusually knackered by the time she goes down at about 7pm.
Mommiemid, thanks for all your advice, it's very kind of you. I'm going to try and answer your questions properly in a new post as my baby has just woken from her nap!
Thanks again all.
 
I'm using the pick up/put down sleep training method by the baby whisperer. There is some crying involved but the process allows you to pick up your baby and soothe them and then putting them straight back into the crib as soon as the crying stops. For us the first 3 night were the hardest. I had to repeat the process 100 times the 2nd night. Last night (the 5th night), I plopped her into her bassinet and she whined for about 5 minutes and went to sleep on her own. My girl is 4 months though so I'm not sure how it works for an older baby. The key to sleep training success though is consistency and determination. You can visit this link for more info http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2009/01/pupd-tbw.html?m=1
 
P.s. the process can be kind of back breaking so be sure to enlist your husband for a massage! But it was worth it and I can say was able to help her thru the entire process of letting her self soothe.
 
I speak too soon!
Baby was lovely until 5 months. Then she fell off the rails.
There were many changes in her life. She started solids. Mom went back to work. She got moved out of the little bassinet in our room to her own nursery. And her first tooth started poking out.
I thought it'd be temporary. But it's been almost a month of sleepness night.
For a while, I gave up entirely and went back to walking up and down the hallway, breastfeeding endlessly and co-sleeping.
Two weeks ago, we started "hush / pat" and "pick up / put down." These techniques are nice and gentle. And she is improving slowly with them -- settling with less help from me, and spending the night (though disrupted) in her own cot.
BUT it's a slow improvement. And I'm back to full-time work and exhausted, with no help at night.
So now I'm considering doing 3 nights of controlled crying. What do you guys thinks?
 
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