Safe to get pregnant in HK?
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goodbye kitty
Registered User
Hmmm? Looks like noone's allowed to express their personal fears on this website lest the perfect mothers get their claws in...
rani
Administrator
Allowed?? Did I miss something?
goodbye kitty
Registered User
I'm not the product of my parents teachings alone. None of us are. The society in which we grow up in has a massive impact on the way that we develop. C'mon, this isn't even A level psychology! May I add here that I am not talking about HK society at large but the world of the HK expat. Before you start cyber-screaming down my neck WITH BIG FAT CAPITAL LETTERS, I am simply commenting on the difference between my upbringing and that of the kids here and how that creates some (tiny) amount of fear. 'Teach it to them'....well, why didn't I think of that? I didn't read Dr Spock yet.
And since I'm also being marked on semantics, I will strike out the word 'allowed' and replace with 'encouraged' in case anyone's feeling pedantic.
And since I'm also being marked on semantics, I will strike out the word 'allowed' and replace with 'encouraged' in case anyone's feeling pedantic.
carang
Registered User
of course society has an impact, but the parental impact is MUCH greater as far as i'm concerned.
you don't HAVE to raise materialistic, selfish, racist children who are only concerned with getting the newest and smartest watch/car/tv/you substitute what you like. it is up to you to teach them the "better" way. it is up to you, the parent, to show them through the way you live how to behave in a more compassionate way, to look beyond race, to look beyond themselves to the "greater good". that is not up to society, it is up to you.
nothing i wrote was offensive. however, you are choosing to take offense.
i am by no stretch of the imagination the perfect mother. i do not pretend to be. i have my own issues. however, i do have confidence in my ability to raise my children with what i consider to be "good" values (obviously, these are different for everyone). however, i do hope that my husband also instills what he learned growing up here.
i agree that the small world of the "expat" could be ummm..... detrimental...if you allow it to be all that they experience. if they grow up with a sense of entitlement, that is the fault of the parent, not of the society. i've been here for 14+ years. i AM an expat, but i've never had the luxury of an expat package. as a matter of fact, i came here as a backpacker. i've never felt entitled to anything, simply because i'm an expat. i've worked EXTREMELY hard for everything i have. THAT is what i want to teach my children. the only concession we have to being an expat is that we have a helper (although, this is not exclusive to expats). i am teaching my child that her job is just as important as my job or my husband's job. my kids ALWAYS say please and thank you. they help her do the housework (even though my oldest is only 4). THAT is what I teach them. when we see someone treating another poorly, we point it out to our kids and tell them that it isn't allowed at our house.
again, it is up to the parents what values are taught, what values the children take to heart and how the children are raised.
you don't HAVE to raise materialistic, selfish, racist children who are only concerned with getting the newest and smartest watch/car/tv/you substitute what you like. it is up to you to teach them the "better" way. it is up to you, the parent, to show them through the way you live how to behave in a more compassionate way, to look beyond race, to look beyond themselves to the "greater good". that is not up to society, it is up to you.
nothing i wrote was offensive. however, you are choosing to take offense.
i am by no stretch of the imagination the perfect mother. i do not pretend to be. i have my own issues. however, i do have confidence in my ability to raise my children with what i consider to be "good" values (obviously, these are different for everyone). however, i do hope that my husband also instills what he learned growing up here.
i agree that the small world of the "expat" could be ummm..... detrimental...if you allow it to be all that they experience. if they grow up with a sense of entitlement, that is the fault of the parent, not of the society. i've been here for 14+ years. i AM an expat, but i've never had the luxury of an expat package. as a matter of fact, i came here as a backpacker. i've never felt entitled to anything, simply because i'm an expat. i've worked EXTREMELY hard for everything i have. THAT is what i want to teach my children. the only concession we have to being an expat is that we have a helper (although, this is not exclusive to expats). i am teaching my child that her job is just as important as my job or my husband's job. my kids ALWAYS say please and thank you. they help her do the housework (even though my oldest is only 4). THAT is what I teach them. when we see someone treating another poorly, we point it out to our kids and tell them that it isn't allowed at our house.
again, it is up to the parents what values are taught, what values the children take to heart and how the children are raised.
goodbye kitty
Registered User
I can't really fault anything that you've said there. My fear is that I won't be able to stop the influences. That's not to say that I won't try everything in my power, obviously. No-one wants an expat brat (so why are there so many....side issue). You have all the confidence in the world that your kids will turn out as you expect. I guess I currently don't feel so sure. I'm not trying to sell myself short either, I think this is a perfectly natural thought process for someone who plans to raise a child in an environment so different from their own. I take offense because it seems you are telling me that I am wrong to be scared about this, which sounded pretty patronising at this end.
carang
Registered User
i think that you'd find parents everywhere have the same concerns. parernts raising kids in the inner-city in the usa worry about gang influence. parents in gov't housing here worry about triads.
the thing ism you've just got to get over it and have faith in your own ability as a parent.
the thing ism you've just got to get over it and have faith in your own ability as a parent.
There are some studies that say peer groups are more important than parents after a certain age. Now that's a scary thought!
I think it's great that you (goodbye kitty) are consciously thinking about how best to raise your child, how to ensure they don't become brats etc. I think about these sorts of things all the time and have the same fears.
Conscious parenting (what you are doing) is the best way to avoid many problems. So many people don't seem to ask themselves how their own behaviour will affect their child or what they can do to give their children the tools to deal with everything that will get thrown at them as they grow up. I don't think it's as clear cut as Carang suggests. Some kids are just more vulnerable to negative outside influences despite the best parenting. Nature vs nuture etc.
For the record, can we agree to never use CAPITALS to make a point. I feel like i've just witnessed a screaming match!
I think it's great that you (goodbye kitty) are consciously thinking about how best to raise your child, how to ensure they don't become brats etc. I think about these sorts of things all the time and have the same fears.
Conscious parenting (what you are doing) is the best way to avoid many problems. So many people don't seem to ask themselves how their own behaviour will affect their child or what they can do to give their children the tools to deal with everything that will get thrown at them as they grow up. I don't think it's as clear cut as Carang suggests. Some kids are just more vulnerable to negative outside influences despite the best parenting. Nature vs nuture etc.
For the record, can we agree to never use CAPITALS to make a point. I feel like i've just witnessed a screaming match!
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carang
Registered User
i apologise, it wasn't meant in that way. it was only meant for emphasis not as shouting.(although, i should know better... as i sometimes complain of all capitals myself).
as for the rest....i remember my mother always expecting the best of my brother and i. she always instilled in us to treat others the way we would want to be treated ourselves. we both live up to this to the best of our ability. i don't explicitly remember any "anti-drugs" talk from my mum, but i DO remember her disappointment if i ever did anything that she felt i shouldn't do. to this day, i have never even tried marijuana! although i've been in the position MANY times over where that and more has been on offer, i've always refrained. i also lost my virginity much later than many of my peers simply because of the talks that my mother gave me. she warned me of the possible outcomes if things just get out of hand. it didn't matter to me what others thought of me. my mum and i just talked about it recently. i think that it comes down to what/how she taught me. she believes that it is only partly that. that the other part is my own personality. that i was always a leader rather than a follower.
i argued that that is only a small part of it. i argued that it was her confidence in me, her belief in my and in my abilities that helped me through. it was the fact that she constantly told me that if "friends" pressured me into something that i was not comfortable with, they weren't really friends at all. you've heard it said before that if you hear something often enough you begin to believe it. that is what i think happened because my brother turned out exactly the same way.
(father had very little influence on me and continues to have no influence on me or much of my behaviour.)
i'm trying to achieve what my mother did.... strong (opinionated!LOL!), independent children.
as for the rest....i remember my mother always expecting the best of my brother and i. she always instilled in us to treat others the way we would want to be treated ourselves. we both live up to this to the best of our ability. i don't explicitly remember any "anti-drugs" talk from my mum, but i DO remember her disappointment if i ever did anything that she felt i shouldn't do. to this day, i have never even tried marijuana! although i've been in the position MANY times over where that and more has been on offer, i've always refrained. i also lost my virginity much later than many of my peers simply because of the talks that my mother gave me. she warned me of the possible outcomes if things just get out of hand. it didn't matter to me what others thought of me. my mum and i just talked about it recently. i think that it comes down to what/how she taught me. she believes that it is only partly that. that the other part is my own personality. that i was always a leader rather than a follower.
i argued that that is only a small part of it. i argued that it was her confidence in me, her belief in my and in my abilities that helped me through. it was the fact that she constantly told me that if "friends" pressured me into something that i was not comfortable with, they weren't really friends at all. you've heard it said before that if you hear something often enough you begin to believe it. that is what i think happened because my brother turned out exactly the same way.
(father had very little influence on me and continues to have no influence on me or much of my behaviour.)
i'm trying to achieve what my mother did.... strong (opinionated!LOL!), independent children.
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The point about the primary influence moving from parents to peer group is very true. Thta's why we need to teach our kids good values before they move into the 'trouble' years. In my experience, the children who display evidence of 'good' values in their primary years, and much more likely to be able to resist the various problems of being a teenager (peer group pressure in its many forms).
It's that balance between giving your kids the best life you can, and teaching them that privilage comes with responsibiloity. Too many parents (in my opinion) do a great job with the first, but miss the second (or delegate it to the helper....another issue entirely).
I work with a lot of 'expat brats' - quite honestly, these kids who we label as brats here in HK wouldn't even get a blip in the radar in the UK/US/Aus. It's really important to distinguish between surface bravado and deep seated anger/angst.
AS to whether or not it is 'safe' -
environmentally - probably not - but where is?
personal safety - yep - couldn;t do better
values and education - it's as safe as we make it.
It's that balance between giving your kids the best life you can, and teaching them that privilage comes with responsibiloity. Too many parents (in my opinion) do a great job with the first, but miss the second (or delegate it to the helper....another issue entirely).
I work with a lot of 'expat brats' - quite honestly, these kids who we label as brats here in HK wouldn't even get a blip in the radar in the UK/US/Aus. It's really important to distinguish between surface bravado and deep seated anger/angst.
AS to whether or not it is 'safe' -
environmentally - probably not - but where is?
personal safety - yep - couldn;t do better
values and education - it's as safe as we make it.