Pollution always this bad?

Today is good. Nice blue sky and relatively clean air. We had a great time swimming and making sand castles in Big Wave Bay. Unfortunatley when we went out to Central later in the afternoon, the air was still terrible.

Yes, there is nothing Hong Kong can boast about when it comes to the air quality. I can understand the frustrations of those expats who are stuck breathing the air here. (but why still haven't/couldn't just pack up and leave instead of screaming here?) It is true that a lot of companies are moving straight to Shanghai and Beijing instead of using Hong Kong as a gateway. I used to work in Beijing before coming to Hong Kong. The climate there is harsh. It is so hot in the summer and so cold and dirty in the winter. The air pollution and traffic, complete disaster. There are also sandstorms. Shanghai is not much better than Beijing. Tons of traffic and bad air coming from nearby industrial cities. So if you plan to have a piece of China living in China, good luck to you!! When you move there, you may just miss Hong Kong a little bit and do fly back for a weekend getaway!
 
So your point Blee is that if ex-pats want to complain about the pollution in HK ("screaming" about it as you say) they should simply leave? Is there no room for people living here to say that they love many things about HK but find this aspect of life here a growing and worrying problem? Many ex-pats have lived here for years and remember when the pollution level was far better than it is now.

Whether you like it or not, people from outside HK have long had an important role in the development of HK - let's not forget that it was actually run by the British for 90 of the last 100 years.

The fact is that the pollution is awful and is a growing serious problem. It is of particular concern to those with children or those planning a family here. Until some progress is made, anyone who wants to see HK have the bright future it deserves can and should continue to "scream" about it.
 
I'm always confused why locals defend the pollution here, and simply say to expats if you don't like it then leave.

Yes as expats, we have the option of coming to HK for a few years, making some money, whinging about the pollution, but then at the end of the day we get to go home to our home countries and enjoy the clean air and lifestyle.

If you are stuck here for the long term, maybe never having the option to leave, how can you stand not screaming about it until something is done?
 
I'm behind ya Matty.
Without the screaming voices, and many a times they are expats as the general local population tend to be apathetic about a lot of issues as they are too busy with their daily work grind and it's really not part of the local culture, I'm certain the air pollution could possibly be worse amidst other problems. Let's be open about it and allow our fellow mums and dad a voice.
Perhaps it was an overgeneralisation to say that the HK economy will collapse without the expats but there are a lot of negative repercussions for a city that sits idly by the problems it encounters.
So here's to screaming voices :yeah2
 
Yes,the pollution is very bad here. It seems so bad to most expats because we compare it to our home countries. Take a trip to the mainland and then it may not seem so bad here. That's what most Chinese are used to and most aren't really motivated to change things.
 
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i agree with mommy sara. for us, we know how wonderful to have fresh air back in our home country. whereas for the local, they are used to the lifestyle or pollution in hk that they don see the need to change. sometimes, i feel that it is the polluted air here that caused pple in hk to cough so hard and this is so detrimental to their health.
 
Yes the pollution in HK is bad, and seems to have deteriorated rather fast in the last couple of years.

But for some of us HK is home, and returning to our 'home' countries is not always a viable option- which means it falls on us to do something about it....we can complain about the govt. inability to do anything about it forever, but at some point we all have to assume some responsibility for improving and protecting the environment around us, if not for us, then for our children.

Instead of arguing about how bad HK's air it is, and who is leaving as soon as they can because of it- why not focus instead on what we can do to improve the air, and what we can do to encourage the govt. to improve the air.
 
Just a couple of articles for the disbelievers to check out.
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2006/09/04/afx2991187.html-
second last paragraph- "The survey came after recent calls from members of the British, Canadian, Australian and Japanese chambers of commerce in Hong Kong urging the government to act against rising pollution or risk losing the city's international status."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/busin...f-hong-kong-air/2007/03/11/1173548021501.html
First paragraph-
"POLLUTION is chasing professionals out of Hong Kong and could undermine the financial centre's prospects, according to the editor of the Financial Times Asia edition"

there are so many articles i could point to show that you need expats to make any city an 'international' place. doesn't mean the locals aren't good at what they do just that EVERY city wanting international status needs people from around the world.

just type in 'expats' and words like 'leave hong kong, leaving' etc into google and you will see that despite the arrival of some new recruits more people are leaving than coming.
"Recent figures gleaned from the arrivals and departure figures of the Immigration Department show the number of Western expatriates in the city of 6.9 million has dropped from 106,740 in 2001 to 71,150 in 2006. The fall in British expatriates is particularly steep, dropping from 13,490 in 2005 to 11,420 last year" can't argue with the facts.
 
I agree that pollution is one factor that may drive people out of HK- but I don't think it is the only one....things have changed a lot for expats. over the past ten or so years. Expat packagaes are no longer as good as they once were (for the majority of people) aand yet hsing rents and school fees continue to rise....and school places are harder to come by.
A lot of expats have relocated to China- espec. a lot of those who own their own businesses.
There has also been a greater push in HK for 'localisation,' that is training and hiring locals for jobs tradit. done by expats....yes, I agree, immigrants are imp. to an 'international' city but HK is less reliant on them currently than it once was. HK currently seems more keen on attracting talent from the mainland than from anywhere else- and there the pollution, I believe, is even more horrnendous than here.

Still it is interesting to think- what are we as HK residents doing about the air? Am trying to find ways to 'do my bit,' as it were....would be interested to hear what others are doing in a bid to reduce the impact of their carbon footprint!
 
Agree with Bekyboo44 we as individuals should our bit . Less water wastage, less use of electricity. no plastic bags for shopping, using public transport system, dont let your cars running idle. Regarding government , I would like to know how many of us on this website know our disctrict councillors and have actually met them or written to them about the pollution problem. It is of actually of no use to " scream" about the problem on this website.
 
I think it's useful to "scream" about it on this website because I think the more this topic is brought up the more people are likely to take action. Anyway what I would be interested in is exactly what other people are doing to help. As Neha mentioned there is the no plastic bags, using public transport, not letting cars running idle, conserving at home. I do all of that (don't have a car though) but what else are you all doing??? I definitely don't feel like I do enough.
 
I think it's important that we all do our bit, and I seem to do much the same as the other posters (in terms of conserving etc.) but I agree, it isn't enough....at least it doesn't feel like enough. I try to encourage those around me to do the same- but my extended family are rather reluctant to do their bit!

I do think Neha has a point, and I do think it would be a good idea to express our ideas outside the forum so that the people who can actually bring about the changes get to hear our views. In December HK will hold it's legislative elections, and having never voted in them before, I have decided this yr to do my part and am trying to find the councillors who seem committed to the environment.

I had hoped that the air pollution had gotten so bad, that it would spur the govt. into action- but it doesn't seem to have, at least not with the urgency I'd hope for.....!
 
Three things we did - got rid of our car, have reduced our electricity consumption by around 30% per month and rarely if ever use plastic bags from the supermarket anymore (sometimes it's unavoidable, but usually we can plan ahead).

But - or should that be BUT - while we can all do our bit in such a way, there are geopolitical issues way bigger than this causing pollution in HK. So much of the pollution is now coming in from the factories and industrial just across the border in the mainland. Who is going to take them to task? Your local representative? Fat chance. Even our leader is not elected - he has to dance to the exact tune they want to play in Beijing.

Since there is no true democracy here or even a trace of democracy in the Mainland, screaming through sites like this is actually more effective than talking to those political lackeys in my view. Only by raising the issue in the public domain can enough of us put enough pressure on and let people know what's really going on - that HK is rapidly losing it's competitive advantage due to the serious air quality issues.

Comparig the pollution here to cities on the Mainland is pointless - don't we all want to avoid HK becoming just another polluted Chinese city? Are our kids really going to breathe any easier if we tell them "don't worry, the pollution is WAY worse on the Mainland"?
 
U think Chinese fty owners or Communist party leaders or even the HK government officials browse this website? DO u think that half a million people are going to march for pollution like they did for democracy ? I still think u need to pressurize your elected officials.

Even all of us talking about pollution, what has it achieved? Has anyone come with a plan of action? Are u organising a rally? I think at this stage u need more action than just mere screaming on this website

I agree with u that saying the pollution is far worse in other chinese cities is no big help in selling HK's image as a world city
 
You're either willfully or accidentally not understanding my point - I'm not suggesting that the officials browse this site. I'm suggesting that by encouraging each other we continue to spread the word about how bad the pollution is here and how Hong Kong is losing it's competitive advantage because of pollution as a result - we can then make that point to ALL those that we can (whether government, companies, chambers of commerce, business forums or to ordinary HK'ers). As you should know, companies and chambers of commerce and other business forums have a lot more power and clout in HK than the local ward "representatives" who spend much of their time thinking about more mundane and very local issues.

It all helps, so go talk to your local representatives if you wish (I don't know if you actually do), but don't be surprised if they are more concerned with issues about whether or not to build a swimming pool/or are lobbying to keep a local village school open etc. I don't think it's the most effective thing to do though and I certainly don't agree that people should not be raising the issue on this site.
 
All people on this website are parents and educated enough to understand the current pollution levels are not doing good to anyone. My main concern is all people talk about doing something , is there somone really doing something about it. Like u said Chambers of commerce etc having more clout that local representative, I am with u on it, go ahead make a letter from this website, geokids.com and all members signing it( I am sure Rani will not have problem with it) and send it to whomever u think will get this issue more coverage.
 
I agree 100% with Lantau35, it is through discussions on forums like this that people see what others are doing and get motivated to do something themselves. Sadly, i don't think any amount of lobbying or protesting by ex-pats (as the majority of us are) is going to make a difference. It's the locals who have to decide enough is enough and do something about it.
 
So u discuss pollution on this website and dont do anything concrete about the problem ? alot of expats on this website are also permanent Residents in HK so I am assuming HK is home to them also. Just as u would do something concrete in Australia, USA OR Europe why not HK and why just leave it to local Chinese population.

Sad but true , expats/foreigners even living in HK for a long time still consider their home countries more home than HK.

This will be my last posting on this thread as no point in discussing anymore as nothing will come out it. I will do my bit and hope everyone does his or hers
 
Neha, you are being quite unreasonable. Do you really think a bunch of expats holding signs up demanding the gov does something about pollution will achieve anything? Come on now. I don't ask people who do two or three year contracts in Australia to lobby the gov to change the hospital problems there or the tax rate... That would be like asking someone over to dinner and getting them to clean up the mess your children made before they even arrived.

I'm surprised by how much you seem to want to chastise us on here who complain about pollution as if we do nothing ourselves for it simply because we don't write letters or march or whatever you would have us do. not sure how you made the leap but whatever floats your boat. I think if you actually read the posts you will see everyone talking about the things they do.

As for your comment 'Sad but true , expats/foreigners even living in HK for a long time still consider their home countries more home than HK.' Of course HK will never be considered home for many of us. That's life and it's certainly nothing to hold against us. Why is it sad? I don't think it's sad that people who go to Australia for a gap year don't then call Australia home.

I think it would be sad for that to be your last comment when clearly you are such an environmental activist. perhaps you could fill us in on what you do to change the situation so we can join you.
 
Aussiegal gal said -- "I agree 100% with Lantau35, it is through discussions on forums like this that people see what others are doing and get motivated to do something themselves. Sadly, i don't think any amount of lobbying or protesting by ex-pats (as the majority of us are) is going to make a difference. It's the locals who have to decide enough is enough and do something about it."

I don't agree what you said about the expats not being able to make a difference. As you and other expats have been saying on this thread, you guys are vital to Hong Kong being an international city, Hong Kong will lose its position and competitiveness if it weren't for the expats here blah blah blah, then why not help lobbying for less pollution? You guys are important guests here and people will listen to you. Why not march on the street too for what you believe in (there is an annual march on 1st of July every year)? Hong Kong is very open about people marching on the street for whatever cause - young government doctors wanting less overtime and better pay, old people wanting better social welfare, construction workers wanting to improve their minimum wage etc etc, why not expats protesting for the terrible air condition?! It will certainly make international headline (SCMP will definitely cover it and so will many other journals) and I am sure the government will react to it.

So instead screaming on a forum with only a handful of readers, please help by going out there and scream in front of the world.

Even though it is not your home, it is still for a good cause and I am sure Hong Kong people will greatly appreciate it.

And Neha, don't get frustrated by the comments of one or two. Please continue to contribute to this discussion because I believe many people are with you on this.
 
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