Pollution a problem for infants/babies?

nicolejoy said:
You know what I don't get? Hong Kong does have these health care issues - but regardless, it has one of the longest life expectancies in the world. I believe the life expectancy rate here is higher than that of the USA, Canada or Great Britain!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

So it can't be TOOOOO bad - people still live on average 3-4 years longer than people in the USA...
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The bad pollution here, according to those who have been here for a long time, is relatively recent. It would be shockingly bad if a build up of pollution over the course of say 10 years was adversely impacting life expectancy already.
It isn't so bad that it is going to kill you tomorrow or even next year, it's going to be 30 or 40 years from now. Life expectancies would need to be compared around 2050.
 
This is an issue that's close and dear to my heart. I'm seriously considering moving back to Aus or Can(where husband comes from) to have my kids grow up in a healthier environment. I have lived in four cities: Sydney, LA, Shanghai and HK, and I can tell you for sure that Shanghai is definitely the worst but HK is not too far behind. To us, no job offer or business opportunity is worth the risk.

As for the life span, I would guess that the effect of air pollution is a long term one and you will need to measure the direct cause-and-effect over several decades, i.e. it has a time lag. People who live long lives now enjoyed better air when they were growing up in the 1930s and 1940s, at that time, I believe China didn't have factories in the Pearl Delta region. Then of course as it's been mentioned, the obesity and diet problem.
 
I hate the air pollution in Hong Kong and it is really bad. I don't really even care what the scales say, the fact that I feel like my skin is crawling with dust and debris every time I go outside anywhere in Hong Kong and that the air gives me headaches and makes my throat sore says to me that things are really bad in HK. For this reason (and many others) my husband and I plan to move out of HK as soon as possible--especially for our health and the health of our 11-month-old son. I read this article about a year ago:

http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/Environment/article/276665

Hong Kong has the number 3, worst-polluting, coal burning electrical plant in the world located at Castle Peak.

Top 10 polluting power plants

The world's most polluting power plants, with annual emissions in millions of tons of CO{-2}. Ontario Power Generation's Nanticoke generating station on Lake Erie is 65th, with 17.6 million tons.

1. Taichung, Taiwan (41.3)

2. Poryong, South Korea (37)

3. Castle Peak, Hong Kong (35)

4. Reftinskaya SDPP, Russia (33)

5. Mailiao FP, Taiwan (32.4)

6. Tuoketuo-1, China (32.4)

7. Vindhyachail, India (29)

8. Hekinan, Japan (28.9)

9. Kendal, South Africa (28.6)

10. Janschwalde, Germany (27.4)
 
I'm going to have to be a voice for the other side here, as I feel that, while there is pollution here, it completely depends on the person as to how affected you are. I'll admit that the first month or two after coming to HK, from Seattle USA (a relatively clean-air large city), I occasionally felt the pollution, especially if I was doing some lung-busting exercise.

But I have been here for well over a year now and very rarely notice it anymore. Some days in the summertime I'd notice it as a haze in the air one days when it was sweltering hot and not a breeze to be seen. However, even when doing lung-busting exercises, I can't tell. That being said, I don't exercise in Central. However I live on HK Island, and not on the South side either.

There may be some people who are really affected, but I'm not one of them, and I'm sure there are many more like me, although it seems not on this forum. I don't mean to imply that there isn't pollution, and that you won't notice it, but unless your spending hours everyday standing in Central at a busy corner, I don't feel it's necessarily going to negatively impact your life.
 
Some people can handle breathing smog but the stats show that people are getting sick in Hong Kong from the pollution. No matter what, pollution isn't good for us. Hong Kong Island isn't the most polluted place in HK, actually--on HK Island I find that there is usually at least a breeze from the sea going on--try living in the New Territories or anywhere away from the sea. I just think it's shameful that such a progressive city as HK that there should still be such a dirty coal-burning plant just flying below the radar. It's pretty sad.
 
No personal problems for me (or my family either). Some days I notice it looks pretty bad, on others it seems fine. I play sports in Happy Valley and it doesn't me either. But we don't have any respitory issues in our family, we live on the South Side and we don't plan to be here for the rest of our lives, I am not extremely worried, although I do believe efforts should be made to improve the overall situation, not just in Hong Kong.

If my children had severe issues, we wouldn't have moved here in the first place, because then it would not have been worth it. If their situation changes, we'll look into it, but so far, I think it's not going to be a problem. We've been very lucky so far, in general they're pretty healthy children.
 
Hannah, ingesting any poison into your body will affect your health. You might not feel or notice it today but it will happen down the track. I'm quite surprised that you don't notice it, it's everywhere you look and certainly particularly on the island I feel it in my lungs, on my skin nearly every single day. Perhaps it's more a case of you simply getting used to it.

I think it would be remiss to try and deny how bad the pollution is here. If we deny it then there is no motivation to change it. Imagine how lovely HK would be with a lower level of pollution.
 
aussiegal said:
Hannah, ingesting any poison into your body will affect your health. You might not feel or notice it today but it will happen down the track. I'm quite surprised that you don't notice it, it's everywhere you look and certainly particularly on the island I feel it in my lungs, on my skin nearly every single day. Perhaps it's more a case of you simply getting used to it.

I think it would be remiss to try and deny how bad the pollution is here. If we deny it then there is no motivation to change it. Imagine how lovely HK would be with a lower level of pollution.
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Aussiegal, I agree. Poison is poison and ingesting it affects our health. I am especially wary because of my son. For example, when I was pregnant, I would walk down the street in HK and constantly have cigarette smoke blown in my face. I choose not to smoke for a reason--namely because cigarettes contain known carcinogens and smoking them leads to cancer. However, now that HK has made the move to ban smoking in eateries (and eventually some bars), people are smoking more outside. I literally could not get away from it. So, I felt quite angry because I was like, "I am choosing not to smoke for the health of my child but still people are blowing second-hand smoke into my lungs and I can't escape it!" I feel the same way about the corporate air pollution in HK. I don't ever want to "adjust" to breathing dirty air.
 
Lets be rational here

Yes, pollution is a concern, but last time I checked it killed less people than tobacco, alcohol, cholesterol and driving whilst on a mobile phone (ok, maybe i lied about the last one). But c'mon now, if you wrap yourself and your kids in cotton wool, how are you ever going to live. Enjoy life whilst you can.
 
I agree with Neha. The pollution is bad - no question about that. However, it does not render HK unlivable. I am asthmatic and my asthma is no worse here than at home. We had a bit of a panic recently thinking that my 11 month old son was also asthmatic but it turns out that the wheezing was behavioural - i.e. he found he could make a funny noise that would would get him lots of attention. My son gets coughs and colds but no more than the children of my friends in Australia. The only caveat I would add is that I have only been here for 6 months so perhaps haven't seen the full effect of the pollution problem yet.

HK is an excellent place to live. There are so many things for kids to do. Living in HK also gives you the opportunity to have a live-in helper is great for both your marriage and your relationship with your kids as you get to have a break when you are frazzled! My husband and I moved here 6 months ago with a 5 month old baby and we love it here.
 
sherwes said:
HK is an excellent place to live. There are so many things for kids to do. Living in HK also gives you the opportunity to have a live-in helper is great for both your marriage and your relationship with your kids as you get to have a break when you are frazzled! My husband and I moved here 6 months ago with a 5 month old baby and we love it here.
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Gives SOME people the opportunity. Not everyone can afford that and not everyone has the room to have another body living with them--or likes to have another body living with them.

I don't think that HK has that many things for kids to do. It certainly doesn't have much grass or safe places for them to play (well, I haven't been to too many of the "gated communities" in HK so maybe inside of those it does). Sure, if you've got bucks to spend, there are tons of things to do anywhere. I am definitely biased as I have lived in a place with clean air and nice parks (as well as handicap ramps that can be used for a stroller). Apart from the shopping malls and all the classes parents put their kids in--I don't see a lot of benefits for kids to live in HK. But, as usual...that's just me....
 
I moved to HK from Manhattan this past June. I never knew you could really see pollution until we moved here with our now 10 month year old son. It's bad....we bought the IQ Air Filter for his room and when we can't see across the bay, we don't even really leave our flat. We live on the southside as a result of the pollution. There is still pollution over here, but it's less. It also gets worse in the winter time as the pollution from the factors blows directly onto HK Island. If you are thinking about moving and are concerned about the pollution, do think about living on the southside - Repulse Bay, Tai Tam, Redhill, Deep Water Bay etc...These all have very large ex-pat family populations.
 
MLBW said:
Gives SOME people the opportunity. Not everyone can afford that and not everyone has the room to have another body living with them--or likes to have another body living with them.

I don't think that HK has that many things for kids to do. It certainly doesn't have much grass or safe places for them to play (well, I haven't been to too many of the "gated communities" in HK so maybe inside of those it does). Sure, if you've got bucks to spend, there are tons of things to do anywhere. I am definitely biased as I have lived in a place with clean air and nice parks (as well as handicap ramps that can be used for a stroller). Apart from the shopping malls and all the classes parents put their kids in--I don't see a lot of benefits for kids to live in HK. But, as usual...that's just me....
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I am extremely curious, why on earth are you staying in HK? There must be something particularly attractive to you here that you are not telling us about, one that outweighs all the cons of letting your children live in such a terrible hole. Cos if I felt the same way, I'd have uprooted my family and be living the clean, healthy, kids' friendly life to which I have been acustomed.

Also, there are some who like having helpers and some who do not, it's just unfair to be sarcastic and attack another saying it's a privilege for rich people who live in gated communities. Please just take a good look around and you will see there are many local families who are not rich nor live in big flats in nice areas that have hired helpers to help out. It can't be very nice to be living in very cramped quarters for the helpers, but that's another thread altogether...
 
MLBW,

I am friends with people who have helpers and people who don't so I certainly don't think that everyone has a helper or assume that everyone can afford one or wants one. However would I be going out on a limb if I suggested that most expat families have a helper? It would be interesting to see the stats...

I live in Mid-Levels and there are a number of playgrounds near my flat as well as the zoo. Yes, the lack of grass for children to play on is lamentable (the security guard kicked myself and my bub off the grass at the Botanical Gardens last week - apparently the grass is for looking at only!). However, there is a big grassy area at Pokfulam which we take our little one to. If you live on HK island you should check it out. In terms of activities such as Gymboree, Panda Junction and the like there is a much larger choice here than where I am from and it is all closer. As noted those classes or expensive so we also have "play group" at our apartment and 2 or 3 other babies come along for some fun. As you've pointed out nothing is stroller friendly but my arm muscles are coming along nicely and I find that people are always willing to help me get the stoller down steps. Maybe I am just in a good mood today....
 
I wholly agree with Sherwes, HK offers some wonderful opportunities for children and I have lived all over the world (NZ originally where the air couldn't be cleaner...)

We've been here 3 years and hardly ever take bub to malls, we find open grass in the country parks, hidden beaches (admittedly you need a car for that kind of exploration) and many other outdoor joys.

Safety is another benefit, and not just for young children. As kids grow up here, they enjoy a level of freedom that you won't see in many other places. The lack of opportunistic, petty and violent crime is something I'm very grateful for (coming as I did from London...)

Re. helpers, ours lives out so we maintain a balance between privacy and the invaluable assistance (which, as stated above, is a major plus point for your relationship). If I was back in London or NY, I would really struggle to be able to pay for daycare - so while not everyone may be able to afford a helper in HK, the reality is a huge number (local and expat) can as it's relatively affordable.

The pollution is undeniable, but to balance that nature is signifcantly more accessible than many other capital cities I've lived in. We were in the midlevels yet only 2 mins from a country park - we're now in Pokfulam and near any number of walks for the dog and baby.

If I or my children have a health issue down the line where pollution is demonstrably a factor, I'd leave - but until then, I feel fortunate to be here on balance.
 
We had the same problem on Saturday at the Botanical Garden about walking on the grass, But after taking my son off the grass for the 20th time. I just let him run and I told the guard she was more than welcome to run after him and take him off. I tried explaining to her he was not touching any plants he was just running from from one side to another and she didnt bother me again.

On Caine Road the garden if u go up on the left side they have grass there where we actually let our son walk bare feet and he loves it .

I just feel all those people who complain all the time about HK not having enough nature things to do for kids or the pollution and are basically pessimistic people. I believe if u have chosen to live in a place u must try and find what is good about that place instead of pointing all negative aspects of that place and comparing it to all the other places that u come from or u have lived.
 
NYC2HK said:
I am very interested to hear what came of Liz1975's move to HK. My husband and I are are considering an offer in HK (we had actually decided to go and then began to hear pollution horror stories) and we have a 7 month old. We currently live in NYC and in consulting a pediatric pulminologist, were told that HK's pollution was not significantly worse than that of NYC. We are so confused!

I am definitely opposed to bringing my baby somewhere that will risk her health - is the pollution really so bad? Does anyone know if there are statistics that I can refer to? The HK EPD website makes it seem as though the pollution is mild/moderate. Am I missing something?

Any input/personal testimonials are welcome! I would love to have the adventure of living in Hong Kong - is the pollution really a deal-breaker?
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My reply may be too late - have you already moved here? My family moved here from NYC a few months ago. The pollution here is definitely worse than NYC! Granted,we lived in a NYC suburb,but we often visited Manhattan, and Hong Kong air is very noticeably worse than Manhattan air! It is the main reason that we will probably to return to NYC next year, rather than spend the 2 or 3 years that we had originally planned. Sorry to be a party pooper. Some people seem to not mind the lousy air here, but for my family it is a serious problem.
 
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