Phonics taught at Kindies here??

Just some points I want to add regarding the above comments on phonics. I am a trainer for JP and haven't got anything bad to say about letterland or any other phonic tool taught.
I believe that children learn at different levels, some children find with JP the sound is remembered by the action first, they enjoy the songs, actions and will probably do the action when they see the letter, they soon stop this though and just see the action in their heads but say the sound out aloud. Also blending is taught straigtaway so children are able to read up to 40 words from group 1 sounds alone.
After teaching JP in HK for 9 years I have found it works really well.

1. Jolly Phonics is specifically designed for both British and North American English. For instance, on the website www.jollylearning.co.uk (under 'Audio') teachers can hear all the letter sounds in either accent. There is no 'bias for the British Accent' even if that were possible.

2. Jolly Phonics is much the most popular phonics programme in Canada being used by 35% of elementary schools there. The US is our second largest market (though the overall usage is lower than in Canada). Jolly Phonics has been successful for teachers around the world.

3. Neither British nor American spellings follow phonic 'rules' well. This is especially true for common early words like 'said', 'was' and 'once'. The relatively few differernt spellings in American English will be no significant help for children learning to read.
 
Having taught phonics in Hong Kong with multiple systems in multiple schools, both International and Local) for many years and also managed a group of teachers from both UK and US for a large educational company, I just question the value of Jolly Phonics compared to other systems I've used. I was trained in JP under intensive training for nearly 2 months and I also taught it.

Without going into detail of the merits of one system over another, my suggestion to parents is to really have a close look at the systems to see if it really does what it claims. I think once you've seen the research out there, you'll see why it doesn't fully work as well. That's not to say it doesn't work, but it doesn't work as well. I am quite immersed in the latest developments at International Kindergartens and have chatted with some principals and they are currently switching from JP to more proven and effective systems. All in all, phonics is phonics and you'll learn something, but there's just ways to learn better.

And also a side note with British vs. American accents (not referring to spelling), some systems do work better than others. As I mentioned, JP and other systems from places like Cambridge and Oxford University Press follows British English more than American. Not major differences, but some.

Hope that helps.



-Ed
 
What kind of 'English'? Southern, Northern?
What kind of 'American'? Deep South, South Boston? North L.A.?

At the end of the day, the phonice program itself is not as important as the quality of the teaching.

Educator obvioulsy wants to recommend some systems over others - well, what are the 'good' systems, in your opinion?
 
Most Kindergartens and Primary schools use Synthetic phonics - its a method of teaching reading which first teaches the letter sounds and then builds up to blending these sounds together to achieve full pronunciation of whole words.

With Jolly Phonics - the sounds are taught in groups. There is a song, action, worksheet and workbook for each group.
Children learn differently.

My son is 3 years and 8 months old - he keeps asking me to teach him to read as he sees me teaching other children JP. I started reading the Jolly Stories book to him which starts in the same order as the whole system. When we read the first 3 stores, he was able to read the words, at, sat etc, this was back in Feb. He can now read more than 100 words. I haven't actually sat down and made him do phonics at all, I think children in K2 are ready, my son is only in K1.

With Jolly Phonics after the first group is taught s, a, t, i, p and n you can make more than 45 words by blending the sounds together. With each group there are also 10 tricky words (irregular words) that cannot be blended. So after the first group of sounds taught along with the blending and the first 10 tricky words you can make simple sentences.

All the children I have taught JP to love it, they are way ahead at their schools with reading and writing. After JP there is Jolly Grammar 1 and 2. I also use the Jolly Readers books.
I also make a lot of my own materials.

I think its unfair to judge any of the systems taught. It really does depend on the teacher, the way they teach and if the children enjoy the lesson and can work well with the teacher they do learn.

It is unfair of Educator to say that some systems are out of date - JP has recently launched lots of new materials and teaching resources for both teachers and parents. So have many other phonics systems.

From my experience JP works well for me, I am happy to use it for my own children and will continue to use it with other children who want to learn to read and write in a fun way.
Its a multisensory approach to learning, children who are
Vvsual learners like to learn information by reading books and magazines and by drawing explanatory diagrams, charts and pictures.

Auditory learners Like to learn by hearing the information spoken to them in lectures and as well as by speaking the material out loud to themselves or listening to the information on tapes.

Physical learners like to learn by doing physical activites such as writing, underlining, preparing flash cards, and by walking around or exercising as they read or memorise.

I know that with the puppets, finger phonics books, jiglets, magnetic letters etc, JP covers all.
 
The age can matter if you are using, for example, Jolly Phonics which is NOT for much younger ages. It all depends on how the phonics is taught and to a certain extent what curriculum is being used. Phonics can be taught at the moment a kid can copy sounds it hears. The problem is that some phonics programs focus too much on the "FUN" aspect which results on poor retention of the phoneme and sounds. While other programs focus too much on the memorization while neglecting that at different ages, kids need a fun element.

So I don't agree that kids are ever too young. It's just using a program that was designed for a 3 year old on a 2 year old, for example. Or using a 3 yr old program on a 5 yr old. There's a big difference! And most kindergarten and Jolly Phonics teachers typically don't understand that.



Ed
 
Well, I would argue that it's in the teaching, and the adaptability and professionialsim of the teacher to be able to adapt a 'system' to the ages of the childre in their care. I have seen JP used for children as young as two - they don't do the whole program: over the course of a year, they learn all the sounds. It's done with games and songs, and they love it.

Your statments below are quite a backtrack from your earlier comments that JP and Letterland are outdated. So are you now arguing that these systems are outdates, or that kindergarten and pre-school teachers are seldom trained to use them properly? (Certainly not the case in my experience).

educator said:
The age can matter if you are using, for example, Jolly Phonics which is NOT for much younger ages. It all depends on how the phonics is taught and to a certain extent what curriculum is being used. Phonics can be taught at the moment a kid can copy sounds it hears. The problem is that some phonics programs focus too much on the "FUN" aspect which results on poor retention of the phoneme and sounds. While other programs focus too much on the memorization while neglecting that at different ages, kids need a fun element.

So I don't agree that kids are ever too young. It's just using a program that was designed for a 3 year old on a 2 year old, for example. Or using a 3 yr old program on a 5 yr old. There's a big difference! And most kindergarten and Jolly Phonics teachers typically don't understand that.



Ed
Click to expand...
 
Happy V- your reply is good. I strongly agree with you. I know that there are a lot of learning centres out there who offer different phonic programs that they are not trained in. I often get parents come to me and tell me their child has done Jolly Phoncis for a whole year. I assess them and find that they cannot blend at all and most of the sounds have been taught incorrectly.
Myself and another professional trainer here in HK have contacted Jolly Learning in the UK to issue certificates to professional trainers who are indeed proper trainers. I think this will make a huge difference.
I think this thread is now turning into a debate over different phonic programs. I don't want to get involved in this.
In the end they will all work to some extent. Teachers who are more familiar with one program will continue to use it, they know it works and know the children are enjoying it.
As I said before I am happy to use JP to children who want to learn to read and write in a fun way, I know it works well and enjoy teaching it and seeing the huge progress chidlren make in such a short time.
 
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I also don't agree with Educator saying that Jolly Phonics can not be used for younger kids. I teach Jolly Phonics daily at my learning Centre to toddlers as young as 16 months. Of course we don't blend words at this early stage, but we listen to the songs, introduce the puppets and use flash cards to focuss on initial sounds using the actions. By introducing one sound per week and repeating the actions and songs, my students although very young, are already catching on and following the teachers instructions, singing along to the songs, identifying the intitial sounds and are familiar with the puppets names. This is a great start and preparation for learning JP with all the elements by instruction of a Professional Trainer later on.
 
MayC,
Any parent who has grown up in the UK, Australia, Canada, the USA (basically any developed country outside of Asia) will tell you that it's NOT necessary for a child of 3 years 10 months to be able to recognise and write all the letters of the alphabet. It's simply a very Asian preoccupation to have children doing everything earlier and earlier and earlier. This is why you get stressed out 5 year olds and suicidal 13 year olds. It's simply not a developmentally healthy system.
That's not to say that children can;t do things 'early' - as they are ready for them. I am quite happy for my son to be doing phonics at two - because I know that there is no pressure for him to have the complete works of Shakespeare under hus belt by 5........:)
Most research in 'literacy' today focuses on 'literacies' - plural. Teaching children to read is obviously a huge step - but comprehension, love of learning (and reading) and the skills of self learning are just as important.
If the tutor tries to make you feel bad - this is probably stemming from their own fears about they can 'teach', rather than if your child can 'learn'. I would run a mile from a school that had this attitude - but everyone has a differnt style. Just pelase make sure that they are not berating or criticising your daughter if she is making an effort to learn. Her eagerness to learn ishoukd be, and is more important than 'achievement' at this age.
Good Luck with the program!
HappyV
 
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