Lying Domestic Helpers
- Thread starter lantau35
- Start date
HappyV, of course Geobaby is more pro employer than pro domestic helper, the website is used primarily by Employers - we're going to talk about the issues that matter to us and that means relating stories that have happened to us. I don't understand your insistence in slapping every thread that talks about helpers with nasty and extreme comments. What is the point of this forum in your opinion? If we're not able to discuss the issues that are relevant to us, why would we come here?
This thread was so completely innocent - it's a shame that starting a new thread about anything relating to helpers automatically means the original poster will have to defend themselves down the line.
Domestic helpers have their own equivalent where they share stories about us. Whether it's online or in person they've not been known to hold back. I know a couple who haven't been able to hire a new helper because the last one they had - who stole from them - lied about what happened and told all other helpers not to work for them.
This thread was so completely innocent - it's a shame that starting a new thread about anything relating to helpers automatically means the original poster will have to defend themselves down the line.
Domestic helpers have their own equivalent where they share stories about us. Whether it's online or in person they've not been known to hold back. I know a couple who haven't been able to hire a new helper because the last one they had - who stole from them - lied about what happened and told all other helpers not to work for them.
>> Where was Geobaby's official comment then?
I did not have the time or energy to reply to that thread (I think I have a reply saved in my notepad) and neither did I have the energy to drive around that day....
>> Impossible to work 24/7 ...
I beg to differ. My average day is about 19 hours these days (I kid you not). While I do find an hour to play with the son, I really do not and cannot function in the AM.. so I see the original posters point.
The sad part about that thread was .. no one pointed out that even investment bankers have to work 24/7 at times and they're expected to by their employers. No one calls them names...
The poster in that thread had said that they were willing to pay the overtime... so whats the big deal? I've seen iBankers do a lot more demeaning stuff for their 7 figure bonuses.
We all have to work for a living.. some work for peanuts, some work for caviar and champagne. Basic human nature says .. we work while we're essentially happy and when we're not, we will eventually find a way out. The whole "slave labour" term trivializes the real problems of the folks who are really in forced situations, when used in situations like this.
I did not have the time or energy to reply to that thread (I think I have a reply saved in my notepad) and neither did I have the energy to drive around that day....
>> Impossible to work 24/7 ...
I beg to differ. My average day is about 19 hours these days (I kid you not). While I do find an hour to play with the son, I really do not and cannot function in the AM.. so I see the original posters point.
The sad part about that thread was .. no one pointed out that even investment bankers have to work 24/7 at times and they're expected to by their employers. No one calls them names...
The poster in that thread had said that they were willing to pay the overtime... so whats the big deal? I've seen iBankers do a lot more demeaning stuff for their 7 figure bonuses.
We all have to work for a living.. some work for peanuts, some work for caviar and champagne. Basic human nature says .. we work while we're essentially happy and when we're not, we will eventually find a way out. The whole "slave labour" term trivializes the real problems of the folks who are really in forced situations, when used in situations like this.
As the person that started this thread, I just wanted to say thanks for the useful perspectives put forward so far.
I do stand by starting this thread and I'm not sure at all where the odd posting that equated having a DH with slave labour comes from - I think I was clear enough from the outset that I understood the difficult job that DHs do in HK.
I suspect that there is bound to be some bias towards employers of DHs on the site - just as there would be bias in a different direction in certain online forums where potential DH's exchange comments. And just as there would be bias if you sat down and chatted about the difficult lot of a DH with the ladies in Statue Square on Sunday morning. I think Aussiegal and Rani have made this point well enough in any case.
Would be interested to hear from any other members on this topic.
I do stand by starting this thread and I'm not sure at all where the odd posting that equated having a DH with slave labour comes from - I think I was clear enough from the outset that I understood the difficult job that DHs do in HK.
I suspect that there is bound to be some bias towards employers of DHs on the site - just as there would be bias in a different direction in certain online forums where potential DH's exchange comments. And just as there would be bias if you sat down and chatted about the difficult lot of a DH with the ladies in Statue Square on Sunday morning. I think Aussiegal and Rani have made this point well enough in any case.
Would be interested to hear from any other members on this topic.
I did not equate all employers as slave drivers: just to say that some DH are treated like slaves - do you deny?
Shri, you show a remarkable ignorance: of course, investment bankers work long hours. However, they do not work 24/7 as a general rule, and if there are periods of extreme hours, they are well rewarded, both in terms of lifestyle and $$. To equate the work of an investment banker with the job of a DH who is responsible for raising a child is fundamentally flawed.
Each job has its own costs and rewards in terms of money and time: but few workers are more open to abuse, whether physical or legal, than Domestic Helpers. And I believe this is played out in the topics we see being discussed on Geobaby.
Just in the last few weeks, we see threads about Dh who lie, who cheat who steal - not one thread which points out that (a) these cases are the minority, or (b) that employers exaggerate to relieve their own feelings og uilt re: leaving thier kids, or (c) that most of the DH I/you/we know are moral, hardwokring, good people.
All I ever see on here is people moaning about the cost and hassle of a DH, and about how they're all liers and thieves and irresponsible - never any acknowledgement that without them our economy would crumble, and a great many spolied men and women would have to start cleaning their own toilets (shock horror!)
So I'll start by saying that my DH, and the DhHs of all of my close friends, are all trustworthy, honest women, who work hard, and can be trusted 100%: is this really SO unusual - or our our/your expectations skewed?
I'm quite at peace with my decision to stand up for these women.
Shri, you show a remarkable ignorance: of course, investment bankers work long hours. However, they do not work 24/7 as a general rule, and if there are periods of extreme hours, they are well rewarded, both in terms of lifestyle and $$. To equate the work of an investment banker with the job of a DH who is responsible for raising a child is fundamentally flawed.
Each job has its own costs and rewards in terms of money and time: but few workers are more open to abuse, whether physical or legal, than Domestic Helpers. And I believe this is played out in the topics we see being discussed on Geobaby.
Just in the last few weeks, we see threads about Dh who lie, who cheat who steal - not one thread which points out that (a) these cases are the minority, or (b) that employers exaggerate to relieve their own feelings og uilt re: leaving thier kids, or (c) that most of the DH I/you/we know are moral, hardwokring, good people.
All I ever see on here is people moaning about the cost and hassle of a DH, and about how they're all liers and thieves and irresponsible - never any acknowledgement that without them our economy would crumble, and a great many spolied men and women would have to start cleaning their own toilets (shock horror!)
So I'll start by saying that my DH, and the DhHs of all of my close friends, are all trustworthy, honest women, who work hard, and can be trusted 100%: is this really SO unusual - or our our/your expectations skewed?
I'm quite at peace with my decision to stand up for these women.
HappyV, it's very nice that you and ALL of your friends have fantastic DH's, obviously other people have had bad experiences.
You tend to get off topic on these threads, and start repeating yourself over and over.
We know that DH's work very hard, and most of them are wonderful trustworthy people.
But this is a forum where we can all ask questions and Compare OUR PERSONAL experiences.
You say that nobody on this forum ever acknowleges how hard life would be here without DH's - I think we have all repeatedly done this.
If you are not answering the particular question at hand, then perhaps it would be better if you just kept quiet, I think we all understand your point by now.
You tend to get off topic on these threads, and start repeating yourself over and over.
We know that DH's work very hard, and most of them are wonderful trustworthy people.
But this is a forum where we can all ask questions and Compare OUR PERSONAL experiences.
You say that nobody on this forum ever acknowleges how hard life would be here without DH's - I think we have all repeatedly done this.
If you are not answering the particular question at hand, then perhaps it would be better if you just kept quiet, I think we all understand your point by now.
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HappyV, just scroll down through the DH threads, you'll find people defending the fact that helpers are human and make the same mistakes as parents in 'Parents: beware of your maid'. The thread 'It's always the helpers and the children who lose out' was started by a working Mum in response to the ridiculous search by a poster for a helper to work 7 days a week, as mentioned above. They are just 2 threads that caught my eye. You will also find a thread where people are discussing life in HK without live-in help.
The reality is that we speak to our friends/husbands etc. about the good things that our helpers do. We often need advice from other employers to deal with the things that are not so great.
Incidentally, in my former life as an investment banker (which I gave up to look after my children - so not feeling too guilty), I often did work 24 hours on the trot, but never 7 days in a row (3 was my record). Nobody in the real world expects anyone to work 24/7 for any salary, it's not humanly possible.
Standing up for helpers is great, but start a separate thread on the topic. Do not pounce on the poor woman who was simply asking how to deal with lies, and accuse her of demonising helpers.
The reality is that we speak to our friends/husbands etc. about the good things that our helpers do. We often need advice from other employers to deal with the things that are not so great.
Incidentally, in my former life as an investment banker (which I gave up to look after my children - so not feeling too guilty), I often did work 24 hours on the trot, but never 7 days in a row (3 was my record). Nobody in the real world expects anyone to work 24/7 for any salary, it's not humanly possible.
Standing up for helpers is great, but start a separate thread on the topic. Do not pounce on the poor woman who was simply asking how to deal with lies, and accuse her of demonising helpers.
>> remarkably ignorant
Now, I've been called a lot worse, unfortunately it also tells me that you're incable of an intelligent debate, unless I missed the sarcasm chapter in how to win friends and influence people.
>> I'm quite at peace with my decision to stand up for these women.
By the way, do you have a helper? I'd pay money to have them anonymously interviewed about you.
EVERYONE has a bad day and EVERYONE has something bad being said about them.
Anyways .. this is getting way too boring.
I'll crawl back from my hole when someone starts a new thread about how they want to sue their domestic helper for $32 million dollars for ruining their favorite dress / suit.
Now, I've been called a lot worse, unfortunately it also tells me that you're incable of an intelligent debate, unless I missed the sarcasm chapter in how to win friends and influence people.
>> I'm quite at peace with my decision to stand up for these women.
By the way, do you have a helper? I'd pay money to have them anonymously interviewed about you.
EVERYONE has a bad day and EVERYONE has something bad being said about them.
Anyways .. this is getting way too boring.
I'll crawl back from my hole when someone starts a new thread about how they want to sue their domestic helper for $32 million dollars for ruining their favorite dress / suit.
HappyV,
I understand the language most Filipino helpers speak, don't think that they are so trustworthy and kind - even the ones you claim are. They come from a nation that minds other people's business more than their own - i've heard so many nasty comments from helpers about their employers, things they have no business saying and these are helpers who are treated well. They pass comments like the husband's so ugly, what's she doing with with him, or they talk to the kids crudely but in Filipino, who understands (i heard a helper at playgroup)?!
My own helper has been in our family for more than 20 years, my mom put her through high school and you know what . .. she lies, too! I would say to the original poster, if the lies are to save their ass because they didn't clean something or forgot stuff but cover up for it, you have to let it go. Most are just like that. But if it's big lies that affect your child's health - not telling you they forgot a dose of antibiotics or the kid banged his head or something - then have a word with her and explain that you need to know the truth because you need to be able to rectify the situation ASAP.
Most helpers have a decent life here, some appreciate the fact and some don't. You can't know what i mean till you've lived in the Philippines and seen the conditions in the provinces.
Anyway, like the other posters said, this is a forum for the employers to discuss and find out things about handling helpers - some have never had them before and some are used to having them. Don't worry, the helpers get lots of opportunities to talk about us at playgrounds, on days off, on the phone when employers don't know it . . .and some love to cause trouble and tell the innocent hardworking ones how to go against their employers.
I understand the language most Filipino helpers speak, don't think that they are so trustworthy and kind - even the ones you claim are. They come from a nation that minds other people's business more than their own - i've heard so many nasty comments from helpers about their employers, things they have no business saying and these are helpers who are treated well. They pass comments like the husband's so ugly, what's she doing with with him, or they talk to the kids crudely but in Filipino, who understands (i heard a helper at playgroup)?!
My own helper has been in our family for more than 20 years, my mom put her through high school and you know what . .. she lies, too! I would say to the original poster, if the lies are to save their ass because they didn't clean something or forgot stuff but cover up for it, you have to let it go. Most are just like that. But if it's big lies that affect your child's health - not telling you they forgot a dose of antibiotics or the kid banged his head or something - then have a word with her and explain that you need to know the truth because you need to be able to rectify the situation ASAP.
Most helpers have a decent life here, some appreciate the fact and some don't. You can't know what i mean till you've lived in the Philippines and seen the conditions in the provinces.
Anyway, like the other posters said, this is a forum for the employers to discuss and find out things about handling helpers - some have never had them before and some are used to having them. Don't worry, the helpers get lots of opportunities to talk about us at playgrounds, on days off, on the phone when employers don't know it . . .and some love to cause trouble and tell the innocent hardworking ones how to go against their employers.
Roshna,
Of course these women talk about us - but the conversations you describe sound like women talking anywhere - I do not think there is anything racial about it. i've heard some pretty offensive things coming out of co-workers' mouths - it's not just DH who make nasty personal remarks.
As for DH yelling at kids - we've all seen parents losing it with their kids. Yelling etc. Most DH I knwo are too scared of their emploeyers to even tell teh kid what to do - hence the little Empreror/Empress syndrome we all know about.
Just for the record, I do have a helper. She's fantastic, and I hope she's with us for as long as she wants to be away from her family. Shri, you can have her phone number if you like! I am aware that I am lucky to have her.
Of course these women talk about us - but the conversations you describe sound like women talking anywhere - I do not think there is anything racial about it. i've heard some pretty offensive things coming out of co-workers' mouths - it's not just DH who make nasty personal remarks.
As for DH yelling at kids - we've all seen parents losing it with their kids. Yelling etc. Most DH I knwo are too scared of their emploeyers to even tell teh kid what to do - hence the little Empreror/Empress syndrome we all know about.
Just for the record, I do have a helper. She's fantastic, and I hope she's with us for as long as she wants to be away from her family. Shri, you can have her phone number if you like!
I am aware that I am lucky to have her.Roshna made some very objective comments. My husband grew up in Philippines and we have relatives and lots of friends in Manila. The posts we read in this forum about behaviors of some DHs are not much different from the stories you would hear in Philippines. These problems are very common. And Roshna is absolutely right about letting go the 'trivial' lies (it's is often a reflex triggered by their defense mechanism) and making sure they are truthful about the important things.
I found out my helper was lying to me a few weeks after she joined me. Amongst other things she lied about following my baby's schedule which I gave her, using her mobile phone (saying she was on the phone to me and telling my husband later on that she was not on the phone). I had to change a helper because lying to me breaches my trust in her especially when she has to look after my son. Despite this happening, I do hear that there are some very good helpers around, one just needs to decide what is the deal breaker.
lying?
I would imagine most people with office jobs are not exactly honest when they quit to go to another firm for better jobs or better salary. Personally I do not hold it against dh for not telling the truth for not willing to sign another contract. it's their freedom.
but lying about other things is a different story. it's unacceptable.
I would imagine most people with office jobs are not exactly honest when they quit to go to another firm for better jobs or better salary. Personally I do not hold it against dh for not telling the truth for not willing to sign another contract. it's their freedom.
but lying about other things is a different story. it's unacceptable.