Live out helper?

J

JANE892

Registered User
We are fairly new to HK & are expecting baby no. 1 at the end of the year. I want to do things on my own for the first 3 months or so (yes I might regret this decision later!) so we'd like to get a helper at the end of March 08 or April 08.

Our apartment is too small to have a helper live with us- and both myself and my husband just can't come to terms with the idea of a non-family member living with us.

I've read through these threads but i can't find some basic info like
- How much do helpers cost
- How much extra do I have to pay to have a helper live somewhere else (hostel?)
- I've heard the best way to find a good one is via word of mouth (recommendation)...how do you start the legal side of this once you've found one?

Appreciate your help with this.
Thanks,
Jane
 
JANE892 said:
I've read through these threads but i can't find some basic info like
- How much do helpers cost
- How much extra do I have to pay to have a helper live somewhere else (hostel?)
- I've heard the best way to find a good one is via word of mouth (recommendation)...how do you start the legal side of this once you've found one?
Click to expand...

- Going rate for helpers is $50-80/hour
- you'll pay him/her just the hourly rate. This rate is in no way comparable to a Foreign Domestic Helper's salary as you are not allowed to hire a FDH to live out.
- you can search here; http://www.jobs.gov.hk/eng/jobseeker/domestic/wizardform.aspx? and, as you say, ask around.

To stay within the law, the helper you hire must be a permanent Hong Kong resident. You'll need to ask to see their ID card to verify their status. Alternatively, someone on a dependent visa could legally work for you, though this is a more unlikely scenario.

At the end of the day, you may decide there are more advantages to hiring a FDH to live in:
- cheaper
- more stable (sign a 2 year contract)
- speak English
- better qualified, especially in caring for babies (I find).

Hope this helps!
 
Really?

I'd heard that we can get a FDH (legally) full time etc and its ok for them to live out- just as long as we pay for their accomodation. I thought there were hostels for FDH specially for this purpose?

I'm confused...I really don't want a helper living with us. It would be strange at night when hubby and I just want to hang out on the couch etc. Our flat is wayyyy to small for a helper.
 
Take a look at www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/faq_fdh.htm
There, it is stated:

Q42: Can an FDH live away from his/her employer's home?

A42:

No. An FDH should work and reside in the employer's residence in accordance with Clause 3 of the Standard Employment Contract (ID407). The employer is required to provide the FDH with free accommodation as per the standard specified in the "Schedule of Accommodation and Domestic Duties" of the employment contract.

(Employers who have obtained the Director of Immigration's approval before 1 April 2003 to let their FDHs live out can continue to do so, so long as they continue to employ FDHs without a break of more than 6 months.)

Many employers do allow their FDH to live out and pay extra, though this is not legal.

In some circumstances, employers can request special permission, but having a small flat is not 'special circumstances'.
 
HI kashismum- thanks heaps for your help. I was just going through the other posts and did the research and found the same thing. It's pretty definite! I don't want to do anything illegal. Gosh...will really have to talk to my husband about this...big decisions. I guess I'm limited to either being a full time mum (I kind of wanted to go back to work 3 days a week) or paying ALOT more for part time help...or moving to a bigger apartment where we might be more comfortable with a live in helper.

It just seems so strange to me...how do you all have a live in helper in a small apartment- I walk around in my underwear alot. I like to lie on the couch all curled up with my hubby watching TV. My home is my place to relax...I'd find it so strange feeling on edge on the time with someone else there...

Arggh...sorry..just venting- not expecting answers. Just really troubled with this decision...
 
Hi Jane,

I have quite a few friends that legally employ FDH's and have them live out.
It's definatley the way to go if you have a small flat.
I can put you in contact with them if you need some advice.

Cheers,

Matty.
 
I have two helpers and one of them used to live out. If you need details, please PM me. Tons of helpers live out. Please let me know how I can help you.
 
I have a friend who works in the immigration department handling all the oversea employment. I had clarify with her that it is legal for the DH to stay outside as long as you apply and the department give you a green light for it. Any other case is ILLEGAL.
Don't forgot if anything goes wrong, both the employer and employee will get fine.
 
As Bear Lau said it is not illegal for your helper to live out if the Immigration Department allows it. The guidelines for allowing helpers to live out changed in April 2003 and it became much harder to get it passed by the Immigration Department but not impossible. I employed a helper for the first time in May 2003 and she is allowed to live out. The reasons I put forward were lack of space ? we are already a household of six in a three bedroom apartment. It wasn?t passed without quite a lot of arguing on my side but in the end it was allowed. The biggest problem we have is that every time my helper wants to move the Immigration Department require lots of documents, which usually include the rental agreement of my helper?s landlord with the building owner, as almost all helper flats are sublets. (This is not an easy thing to ask for!)
 
More Advice

I too live in a very tiny apartment. I have heard from some that we need to provide the DH with a room, which is impossible for us. Can we ask the DH to sleep in the living room? Would this be illegal?

Thanks in advance
 
hi,

Papa - i don't think this is a question of "legal" but whether it is morally and ethically right, the living room is a public space for the family with the family walking in and out at all times of the day, would it be fair to ask your helper, who does phsyical labourious work the whole day to rest in a space where there is no privacy and her sleep could be disturbed regularly? (Would YOU sleep permanently in your living room?) Needless to say asking the helper for their opinion beside the point given what we really knwo to be an unequal bargaining position, in an interview, of course she's going to say she won't mind if she really needs a job!

Jane 892 - if you are really finding the apt too small and conceptually not being able to come to terms with a live in helper, then get a full time helper that boards out (ie obtaining all of the necessary approvals etc), bearing in midn you'd have to pass their salary, government levy, lodgings at a boarding house (I was told this is appx. $1500-2000 per month for a boarding house in Wanchai), food allowance (eg. $800-900 per month) and transport costs. It is certainly economically more efficient to have a live in but as you've mentioned for various reasons this may not be practical!
 
Jane892 - I used to walk around the apartment in my underwear too (lol), now I have to wear pjs, or at least a longer t-shirt. It does feel weird at first, having a stranger at home. But we got used to it after a short while. Now we can't live without her!

Papa - How many people live in your apt and how many rooms are there? Have you considered having the helper share a room with the kid(s) (assuming you have kids?).
 
papa,

There are some agencies out there ( not sure if you are using one) who have their boarding houses or dorms for the DH who go through them- it is possible to see if they can put up with housing your DH for a charge. personally don't think its immoral or unethical - seems too heavy handed - but its likely you will find the arranegemtn uncomfortable for you too in the longer run.
 
OK, I'm now looking for a second helper and space is tight. Can I ask, does anyone out there have a bonafide 'OK' form the Immigration Dept to have their helper live out (a contract started post 2003 when the rules changed). I called and the officer swore that they would not allow this under any circumstances.
So, I'm wondering if she is just trying to put me off applying.
If there is a chance of getting permission, under what circumstances is it granted?
Thanks!
 
Yes I have a legal live out helper whose first contract was signed 1st May 2003 ? we just missed the deadline. It may be that we just missed the deadline and so the immigration officer was feeling kind but I remember having to argue a lot. She kept telling me that the law had been changed. I even told her that if this was so I was going to write to my local legco member and complain about discrimination because I was too poor to afford a bigger flat. In the end she agreed with me that the guidelines and not the law had been changed.

I have a family of six living in a three bedroom flat ? so already there are two in each room. She went through every room and asked me if the helper could sleep there ? to which I always replied ?no?. I remember asking her if she was suggesting that my helper sleep in the bath or maybe on the balcony! She expected my kitchen to have helper?s quarter in it. And when we moved in it did have but the kitchen was too small so we converted it back into a larger kitchen. This meant that when she asked if I had helper?s quarters in the kitchen I could say without lying that we didn?t.
 
Looking for an Employer in Hongkong

Hello mam Jane ,
I am vivian dullin looking for a employer here in hongkong . I read your add and I am very much interested to working with you and to your family .
I have been working here in hongkong for 12 years to a british family but they allow me to live out coz just like you they also want a privacy of their owned . I was also looking after a twin babies and they are lovely good boys . Since , I am still single and have no kids of my own I love and like most to take care babies . Also , I am very good in clenning , ironning clothes ,and cooking too .
Since my visa is only up to nov.12th , I am oblige to go back home to my country of origin -Philippines . Hoping we could contact before I leave . This is my mobile no.67141553 ( here in hongkong ) and my mobile no.+639277267672 ( in the Philippines ).
Thank you very much . Hoping to hear from you very soon . God Bless .
 
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