Live-out FT helper?

G

Gracey

Registered User
Currently, we have a PT helper once a week. Before bb comes, we'd like a FT, but not live-in. We've the space (we're blessed with a slightly larger flat than most local families share) but we want the privacy.

One of my family members has a live-out helper. She pays the standard rate, plus HK $1000 for a room in a nearby boarding house. Is this fair? $1,000 seems like very little to get by in HK.

What hours would a live-out amah work? Another friend with a live-out FT amah had very set times, like 8am-6pm, to cover the parents' working hours. But their child is older and in school. What hours would an amah work for a newborn?

The first few months, I'll care for bb myself. The amah will be there for housework -- groceries, cooking, cleaning, laundry, errands, etc.

After I go back to work, we will rely on the amah for some childcare. Though, happily, I will only go to the office 3 days a week. Thanks guys!
 
Hi Gracey,

We are in a similar situation as you! We found a FT who lives out when we found out we were expecting as we want the extra help but wanted to maintain some privacy. We pay an extra HKD1200 for her boarding (on top of her usual salary + allowance) and her work hours are 8am - 6pm.
My husband and I both work full time so we expect that her work hours will increase (and she is aware of this) but we do not like how some helpers are expected to be at every beck and call 24/7 and will most likely try to minimise the help we need in the evenings. Should she have to work much later than usual, we will compensate any significant additional work hours with an extra day off in the weekend.
I guess its hard to say how things might change but we are thinking of taking a transparent and flexible approach with our helper and adjust accordingly once our baby arrives in June (its hard to foresee what kind of sleeping/feeding pattern our bub will have at the moment!)

Also, our helper is actually looking forward to our baby as with the current minimal workload she gets quite bored during the day and says she doesn't mind the extra work/ challenge!

I don't know if this has been useful in any way but hope it answers some of your queries!
 
just be aware that it is ILLEGAL for anyone on a foreign domestic helper visa to live-out. one of the requirements of the visa is that they live-in..... if anything goes south with the helper you don't have much recourse as you have broken the conditions of her contract and could be held liable in the labour tribunal (whether or not you were paying for the boarding house) and you COULD be blacklisted and not allowed to employ a helper in the future.

now, i'm nnot saying that this WILL happen, but it COULD. and it wouldn't even have to be something wrong with your helper.... a jealous friend of hers could call immigration and report you, too...
 
Hi Song -- Thanks for your advice! It's good to know that 1,000-1,200 extra is in the ballpark.
We also don't want to be slavedrivers. I have some local families who are terrible to their help, and it makes me ashamed on their behalf. We're both well accustomed to doing our own housework -- but we will need the FT help if we're both working. I'm sure (I hope) a 10-hour workday for the helper will cover it.

Carang -- Thanks for that. I had no idea, since so many people I know use live-out or PT helpers. It seems like a cruel law -- how come other employees have a choice of where to live, but not Filipina amahs? My old PT was really happy to have her own place. Anyway, thanks for the warning!
 
Cara - You're right that it's illegal. But it's not just that you could end up in Labour Tribunal and blacklisted - you could actually be prosecuted. That might be enough in some jobs and professions to get you fired, so the OP needs to consider this as well.
 
Another potential problem to note - if the live-out helper does something illegal (i.e. steals from you) you have very little recourse without also landing yourself in hot water for illegally employing live-out FDH. Happened to a close friend very recently.

For those of us willing to pay for decent live-out accommodation, transportation costs, etc., the law does seem cruel and to interfere with our privacy. But it was actually enacted to protect FDHs b/c lots of employers were having them live in overcrowded, small and terribly dirty boarding houses, often without heat, a/c in the summer or adequate plumbing or cooking facilities.

Oh, and I think that if you are going to do it, 1000-1200 extra is on the low side. I do know quite a few people who employ live outs and they tend to spend between 1500-2000 on accommodation.
 
I would agree with Elle. From what I have heard to get decent accommodation for the helper you are looking at around the $1500 to $2000 mark depending on where you live.
 
elle said:
For those of us willing to pay for decent live-out accommodation, transportation costs, etc., the law does seem cruel and to interfere with our privacy. But it was actually enacted to protect FDHs b/c lots of employers were having them live in overcrowded, small and terribly dirty boarding houses, often without heat, a/c in the summer or adequate plumbing or cooking facilities.
Click to expand...

The law actually changed when HK's unemployment rate spiked during the last recession, and the Gov't launched the Local DH training program. They encouraged families who were looking for a live-out helper to hire a Local person rather than hire someone from overseas
 
Even before the law changed, it wasn't easy to get permission properly from Immigration. I don't think many people bothered to do it officially.

I had to get a signed sub-tenancy agreement for my live out helper which had been stamped by the Stamp Office in order to protect the domestic helper with regard to her accommodation. And Immigration also required a permission letter from the landlady with regard to the sub-tenancy which was very difficult to get and which she wanted money for.
 
Portia...so to confirm, it IS possible to legally employ a FT helper who lives out? What do you need to prove to immigration to allow you to do this? How long ago did you do this?

Anyone else done this or heard of anyone doing this???
 
no, it is no longer possible... it WAS possible BEFORE 2003, and the ONLY people who can legally do this are those who had permission prior to the change.
 
It's no longer possible to have a live out FDH. Sorry, but I was talking about how difficult it was even before they changed the law. As Cara says, it is now only possible if you had permission from Immigration prior to the change and I think for the same helper. Now if you want a legal live out helper, you need to employ someone with a dependent's visa or a local helper.
 
Hi everyone, Thanks to all of you for your advice! :)
We wouldn't mind boosting her housing allowance to HK $1,500 or so. We want to be fair, but also not get ripped off. (We live in Kowloon, if that helps. I think prices are lower here). We would also pay for transportation and food.

I know there's no point in complaining here, but it really does seem unfair. So a local Chinese helper has the freedom to live out, but a Filipina does not? What kind of government policy is that? What about long-time Filipinas in HK? Do they get permenant residency and become "local" after 7 years like everyone else?

Please don't read too deeply into this, but I would prefer not to hire a full-time local / mainland Chinese helper. Long ago, many Hong Kongers used them, and they really were "jie jie" or "ayi," meaning they were like pseudo aunts who felt they had say over childcare decisions, etc. According to my older relatives, there was alot of conflict -- it was too close for comfort.
For some reason, with "foreign" (like Filipina) helpers, I think it's easier to keep that line between employer and employee. I'm just going by the experience of my family and friends. Even my relatives who speak no English are wary of local / mainland helpers. I don't mean that to sound prejudiced, but I think there's a big cultural difference.

Hmmm. What to do. My current PT is live-out. Maybe I'll ask her what the situation is.
 
no, a FDH cannot EVER get permanent residence here... even if they work in hk for 25 years, they are not eligible.
 
Be prepared that a local person is very expensive. After a few bad experiences of hiring foreign helpers, we're now hiring living-out chinese helper. We pay her $9000 for 6 days/7 hours a day. and of course most of these ladies have families in hk so sometimes their work schedule will have to be accommodated. I like her because she can speak mandarin to my kids and is very sensible and careful with the types of food she feeds my children.

However, after factoring everything, it's at least 3 times as expensive!
 
#1-it's illegal, #2-you want to know where your helper is living because if it's dirty, they're going to bring possible germs, etc with them when they come to work, #3-on top of salary, you need to provide food allowance and accomodations, #4-again, it's illegal and yes, many people do it, but like said above, you need to be careful if something happens or if one of your helper's friends decides they want to tell on your helper. Of course the laws will be different for a FDH because it's there to actually protect the helper...you're responsible for their visa so in turn, you're responsible for them. A local person has different rights because they are a resident here. It would be the same in any other country. You don't have the same rights as a local person if you're in a foreign country. Also if you're here on a work visa, you probably have a different financial situation than an FDH.
 
I know a FDH here and yesterday she said that at her boarding house, some of the girls have official permission to live out. I argued that that couldn't be the case bc of all I have heard on this board, and she said that it was possible to get permission even now bc she knows the girls who have it. I don't know...
 
it would be the employers who have permission....this would apy to any helper they hire, so long as they have not gone more tthan 6 months without a helper.

Also, it could be that they only have permission from their employers, not immig
Posted via Mobile Device
 
hmmmmm.... i've never heard about such cases. maybe they could shed some light on how they went about this? it would be extremely helpful to many people!
thanks!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top