kid being bullied at school

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So now it's because your child is waiting for an international school place?
So it's OK for you, as a trained teacher, to publicly advocate violence as a solution, on the grounds that you do not want to upset your child's teachers, but it's not ok for someone else to point out that teacher training isn't everything? I know I am connecting two threads, but I still find your stance on this quite strange. Presumably your child attends a school where all the staff are 'trained' - in which case, your comment questions their professionalism - that if you tried to solve this situation 'properly' (for want of a better word) that they would take it out on you in a report?

I still don't follow your logic - because what you are saying is not logical. Aren't you more worried that one of his teachers may write in a report that your child has been seen hitting another student, even if it was provoked? (And believe me, in an international school application, that comment would be taken far more seriously than any observation about the parent!)

"So imagine, if I'm a trained teacher and am not perfect ... !"
Lastly - I am a trained teacher: so you can keep the inference to yourself. The bullying I experienced was easily as bad as what you describe: are you now a bullying expert because of your husband? But teachers with decades of experience but no qualifications don't know what they are talking about? It's the double standard that cannot be justified.

We all make decisions for our children that are not perfect and are based on the best we can do at the time. However, when you openly criticise others, you also need to be open to someone calling you on being hypocritical.

We can agree to disagree - if that makes you feel all justified and righteous about a poor decision. I am quite happy to provide you or your school with the research and guidelines that give a school the basis of a policy to deal with bullying: policies that have been successful in a myriad of schools/cultures/countries/contexts.

I really hope that your son is OK, and that the school handles it better if there is a next time.
 
And oh, this is a kindergarten with 24 kids in a class. School counselor? Who's that? They don't even have a school nurse! Why would a kindergarten employ a school counselor anyway? We are obviously not rich enough to be in that kindergarten that has employed one.

Gosh! Some of your kids are really lucky to be in such a privileged school.
 
Look, I'm sorry that you were terribly bullied. So, I do understand where you are coming from. There is a personal take/stake to your opinion.

I'm not worried about teacher's reports because my child has gotten into an international school with a long waitlist without an interview and we were told by the admissions manager of that school that the teacher's report was sufficient. We do have a good relationship with the teachers and parents of his class. The bully is no longer there. His parents pulled him out - like i said for obvious reasons.

As far as my take is concerned on professional credentials, I've always looked at it from a curriculum development point of view - teaching and learning. And you have rightly point out the flaw in my training/experience. I have only worked in cushy schools - no bullying has occurred. Lucky me i guess!

There are a lot of reasons at play with such a sensitive situation like bullying and in my son's case, the bullied. We did not make the decision without thought. And because you've been bullied, you'll get angry each time a parent/teacher does not follow a certain procedure you deem is right.

I'm going to use this as an example (real situation - one of two I know) and would like to know your thoughts. We moved so that our child would not be in this situation. He was in the bus route if he went to the school (either):

A certain reputable international school bus ride (where K-12 students ride) is notorious for bullying on the school bus. A parent asks the bus mother, the school, the teacher to intervene. The situation did not improve. After six months, the parent pulled the child out of the bus service because despite everything that has been done (within the powers of the school, the bus company, the parents - essentially all the stakeholders including the students), the parents had no choice but to pull the child out of the school bus service and hire a private driver to ferry the child in question to school. The parent got tired of having to knock on the school's door to deal with the situation.

(1) What would you do as a parent (given that you are a professional teacher) if you did not have the means to hire a private driver or drive your child to school?
 
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And, as far as teaching credentials are concerned, mine has suited my needs. I have unfortunately worked with really really bright kids or kids who are very motivated (academically) across all 3 countries I've worked in. It's the privilege of employment choice. I've turned down jobs in Oz so that I don't have to work with troublesome kids/schools.

NEVER had to deal with bullying. Only about learner motivation, stretching learning, ... all about teaching and learning for the motivated and bright. So my opinions on teaching credentials are based on that. Have you forgotten that I am also behind teachers like Cara who are brilliant at what they do (even without teacher credentials?) I think you are taking my opinions out of context to suit your personal anger/frustration.

And, no, my husband's experience does not make me an expert. I am not. I did stress my non PC approach!
 
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Every school I have ever been involved with (whether KG/PS/SS) has a staff member in charge of students safety. Whether or not this is their sole responsibility depends on the size and nature of the school. KG do tend to be different, but there is usually a school policy on bullying, and someone in charge or having put together or monitoring this policy. If the KG your son attends doesn't have one, then they should. It's not just 'privileged' schools that have these basic support structures in place.

I do not believe that the situation you describe is realistic. I do not believe that the combined best efforts would fail to resolve a situation. In HK, parents fret and worry about the most trivial details. For example, the parent who wonders whether her daughter should be eating rice or pasta for a school lunch (I mean, come on!) or whether the child should be using a binder or folder to store school work. In any case,if the bullying was taking place on a bus - what would you have happen? That a full fight develops which only serves to further increase the chance of a serious accident?

Every school has issues on the buses. But they get resolved when everyone agrees there is a problem.

You are incredibly naive if you think that bullying is confined to schools less privileged, or unomotivated or lazy children. Bullying happens everywhere, but it does happen in more sophisticated ways when you are dealing with clever children. Having a 'cushy' job does not mean that you do not have bullying going on around you.

*Bullying is unpredictable behaviour that appears to strike without pattern and to become a difficult problem for about one in six schools
* It occurs in all types of schools
* It is not restricted by race, gender, class or other natural distinctions
* It is at it's worst during early adolescence
* Compelling evidence that the impact pf bullying has lifelong consequence (for bullies, victims and bystanders.
* Bullying can interfere with normal developmental processes (socialisation, learning to regulate behaviour etc etc).

Bullying will have happened at every school you have taught in - you were just not aware of it. Given HK's stressful education paradigm (for students, parents and teachers) the last thing we need is advice telling people to hit back. This just creates more of a vicious cycle.

I would advise you to talk to the school to find other ways to break this cycle. Perhaps a 'Bully free' zone? (This has had a lot of success, although not total success in the primary schools where such spaces have been trialed.) Even if your child's KG has no councellor, the children are supervised while at play? Tell the victims to move to this space when they are feeling pressured - the space should be under constant staff monitoring.
 
Dealing with bullies is a contentious issue.
For you, it's very personal.

While I'm more than happy to let schools deal with the problems (which I did), I don't live in a Utopian society. In a Utopian society, the theory works. Like another poster has mentioned, there are alternative opinions out there.

A child has a right to defend him/herself (when the system has failed). There is no point educating a school system. If you're up for the challenge, I'd be more than happy to send you a PM so that you could work with my child's school advising them how it should be. And, I would love to know what the principal's answer to your email/qeury be.

Rice or Pasta? Try having to scrounge money for instant noodles! I work with kids who are too poor and too busy to worry about bullying. Some don't even get food on their table. Not even money for lunch. The school sponsors $20 a day for them to come to school and meals per day! So yes, in my experience, you can be find yourself in classrooms where bullying doesn't take place. You obviously have never taught such kids before? Going to school hungry, mostly single parent and working their hardest to get out of the poverty trap their parents are in? My job is make sure that they make the grades to enter a good school to carry on! Such schools exist - Try working in one. Or the kids are so smart that they are able to rationalise everything? I do apologise again for my employment choices. You need to get out of the Western only approach classroom/ privileged middle class classroom and try getting to the hearts and mind of impoverish HK kids and other societies. I've worked in both and trust me, there are such schools. You're the naive one caught up in experiencing just middle class values/system? Try an impoverished HK/any other Asian school with bright kids. Or a school for the gifted. Two different spectrum but two definite realities.

We don't live in a Utopian society. There are lots of parents/teachers who when it comes to their child would do whatever it takes so that their child is not psychological scarred from bullying.

I know that I'm done being judged by someone who lives in a Utopian world. I live in reality and work within my limitations.

If you wish to continue a personal attack, please at least have the guts to go offline and address your psychological issues about your experience and how they are dictating your responses online. I am sorry about your experiences. Are you not engaging in cyber bullying? You're not allowing anyone else to have an opinion about how to deal with it when the system fails. You're only allowing for one approach. A Utopian state whereby in theory it works. Not taking into account how so often, a system fails. Maybe not in yours. But it surely did in my child's school.

You're the naive one hiding behind theories and not facing up to the reality that a system can let you/your child down. I would love to see you educate the system larger than you can control. It's easy enough to voice an opinion on the internet. Another altogether to take on a system/group of leaders. You should consider being a consultant to all HK international schools/ESF/DSS and see if in reality, your solutions would bear fruit and how many times it'd fail. At the very least, it'd be a great thesis for a PHD.

You've accused me of a lot of things. But I've had enough of your melodrama and opinions. You've called me unprofessional and now naive. I've addressed my limitations as a teacher and parent. And you seem to be just the perfect teacher and parent. If only the world was filled with more the likes of you - Utopia. You obviously still have scars from being bullied and have not moved on. Who's the bully now calling others names behind a pseudonym?

Like i said, a child has a right to defend him/herself (if the system has failed). I stand by what I did (as it was within my limitations - which I have addressed). I'm not made of money. We've even moved so that our child does not have to get on the bus route where the bullying occurs (where again the system has failed). I'm NOT that parent who can afford to hire a personal driver for my child. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm no unique or alone in this opinion. Should a child hit back? There are two contentious opinions. I'm on the side where if the system fails, fight back (after giving 3 other chances)!
 
My computer just ate my first response, so I will try again.

Please do not make assumptions about my experience -you have no idea about where I work, or my teaching history. Suffice it to say that bullying is not prevented by either privilege or poverty. There is research out of the UK/USA/Canada/Australia/ New Zealand/France/China and yes, even HK that backs this up. Exactly what form the bullying take is influenced by the cultural dynamics of the specific situation, but bullying happens everywhere.

It comes down to this: is there any practical research (by which I mean years of studies on classroom level initiatives) which supports the stance you have taken? The answer is no. How do you know that these approaches fail? It seems clear from your previous posts that you feel that your child's school did very little to help solve the problem. Do they have such policies in place, or not? The schools groups you mentioned (ESF/DSS/International etc) certainly do. They do not tend to post these on their websites - in HK, where education often = marketing (particular in those kinds of schools) the policies are there, but not made public until there is an incident. This is not Utopia - this is research that is continually developing and reacting to 'new' developments such as cyber bullying, 'sexting' and other forms of digital/cyber harrassment, as well as the old-fashioned push and shove. Calling it Utopian is perhaps your response to a situation that you feel you have no control over - but rather than judge my suggestions, why don;t you try carrying some of them out and see if they have a positive effect on an educational environment?

What is the policy at your child's school? And if they don't have one, then that's your starting point.

Also, please do not make assumptions about my level of psychological 'scarring'. You say that I am not allowing you to have an option, which confuses criticism with censorship. By all means, have your option. But back it up with something other than your (incorrect) assumption that I have no experience of a specific educational environment.

You can continue to rail at my lack of understanding/experience etc or you can actually look at some of the information I have tried to convey and acknowledge that there might by a better way to go than telling a child to hit back. Some of them might even work but you have to know what they are and you have to try them. By your own words, you say that you have no experience of bullying - so use your professional skills and experience and try to work out what would work for the specific educational environments you are involved with - whether it be your son's school or your own.
 
P.S I am neither a perfect parent or teacher. But bullying in schools is an area where I do have both academic and professional expertise and experience. You can either take it on board or continue to find ways to undermine the information I am giving you. The choice is yours.
 
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