How to deal with the haves and the have nots

S

smglobal

Registered User
I am increasingly frustrated with the amount of splurging I see here, and I want to get some opinions on how to deal with it.

Our family does well enough here, and we feel fortunate to be in Asia at a time when our earning potential is higher here than back home. We do try to enjoy ourselves during this time - going home once a year, visiting places like Thailand or China a couple times a year, hiring a helper, etc.

My issue is that I see so many people in similar circumstances who spend so much more, and even as balanced as I try to be, I get jealous. Every other month is a vacation to a luxury resort, every other week is a new handbag, they have expensive cars, expensive rent, their kids have every imaginable new outfit or toy or have signed up for all these classes. All this and we aren't even paying for international schools yet...I imagine it might be even worse then!

Sure, I tell myself that we are practical and saving up to go home, whereas some people will have to work forever to maintain their lifestyle. But it still bothers me that in HK you see such crazy wealth and spending, and the culture seem to encourage more and more rather than being mindful and saving. Any suggestions on how to deal? I haven't been here that long and it's weighing on me...I especially worry about how to be a good role model to my kids as they get older and start asking for things...
 
I don't pay any attention to what other people have or don't have. It's none of my business how others choose to spend their money, as it is none of their business how I choose to spend mine.
As far as setting a good example for my children goes, we encourage our son to save his pocket money. Our daughter is too young yet. My son gets presents from us at christmas and birthday. He doesnt walk in to a shop and get anything he wants. Sometimes he comes home and asks why he can't have things that some of his friends have and we explain that if he wants us to pay for it, then he can wait until his birthday. He can also choose to buy something with his pocket money but we find that once he has to pay for it himself he often decides not to!
My advice would be to focus on you and your family and let others live how they choose to.
 
Hong Kong is ridiculous in how much some people make - and spend. We aren't too bad off - but we are definitely on the "low" side of expats over here. My husband is Australian-Chinese and was a local hire. We have friends who pay more in rent than we earn in a month, it's insane.

All that said, I like what Amy said, we don't focus on what other people have or don't have - we try to make wise financial decisions for our family and will teach our children to do so for themselves. And for a reality check, you can make friends with some locals and I know compared to them, OUR rent is more than their income so we must seem equally as extravagant...
 
wouldn't think too much ...there's a saying in Chinese that goes somewhat like "if you compare yourself to others too much you will go crazy" ! just do what is right for your family...i know it's going to be tough when you're kids asks, why someone has a toy and he cant have one...but i think that happens in many places and not just Hk. We live within our means, and yes, i do like for my kids to have some nice things - a nice outfit here and there, but it doesnt mean that every piece of clothing is a big name brand...they wear hand me downs, they have nice party dresses...hopefully they will grow to not WANT nice things, but to appreciate it when they are given nice things and not expect to get "nice" things each time (nice as is expensive I guess - I DO think the hand me downs are "nice") :)
 
there was a very similar post a few years ago with lots of ideas in it.... i'll see if i can find it.
 
There's always going to be someone richer (or more willing to spend money) than you (unless you're Stanley Ho / Li Ka Shing ;-)). I think it's natural to have an occasional envious thought, but at the end of the day, you have to work at being happy with what you've got and counting your blessings. There will always be someone less fortunate than you. We are all so lucky to be here, I personally think.

If you want to teach your kids the value of money, look at Money Savvy Pigs - I bought some for my boys at Christmas to try to teach them the value of Saving, Spending, Investing and Donating. Good financial sense starts early - but doesn't come naturally to most!
 
my kids have a coin bucket (there has been as much as $3000 in it!). they save all of their money for whatever goal it is that we have. we are now saving to buy air tickets to canada at xmas.
 
smglobal I think what you are seeing is a real "face " thing in HK. That's what's going on with the overt signs of wealth, the handbags, cars, holidays....ect. Its quite imbedded in the local culture here that you are either successful or you are not, there seems to be no middle road. Sad but true. So the folk here use these 'sign's to indicate worth. For example, my secretary who makes around 12K per month recently was toting a limited edition LV bag that I'm guessing was 18K (HKD). All the other PAs/Secs were envious +++. I thought it was totally insane she would waste her hard earned cash like that but I'm a believer of "to each their own".......but the effect on others was pretty interesting.
I just think that you need to be strong and keep to your core values. Never lose sight of them. Be comfortable in your own skin and surround yourself with like minded people. When I first came to HK I put up with a lot of rubbish because I was new in town and just thought that was how everyone is here, but as the years have passed, I have realised that you do not need to surround yourself with these shallow types, they will make you unhappy as for them, their own happiness is the product of someone else feeling less better about themselves (cutting you down to make themselves feel important/superior) . There are like minded people out there, you just need to find them as I have.
I have a unique problem that is similar to yours in a way, in that I'm trying to raise my brood with a sense for the things I find valuable in life, good friends, great books, "life adventures' like cooking together, traveling together.....without the materialism and I can almost achieve this, as I have surrounded myself with like minded friends and their families. My problem is my husband's family is local HK Chinese, and his parents are very materialistic and do not support the values I try to imbue my children with. My husband is not materialistic but I think he finds it hard to manage his folks. His mother tells my four year old 'you're a rich little girl' (it used to be a rich little baby) which I find offensive in the extreme. They keep telling my two that they are rich (it's now permanently imprinted in their brains and I can't weed it out) and can afford ANYTHING that the two children want. They point out their less richer pals (but never their richer ones......). This is a problem I can not solve.
So I think for you, choose your friends and their families wisely. It's easier to do than you can imagine and life will become more wonderful and less stressful for you when you find a few families to finally 'nest' with. Just remember, it only becomes your problem when you let them get to you. Keep to your core values. Good luck and God Bless.
 
Be content with what you have. Your situation certainly seems comfortable by the average local standard. I also cringe at materialistic culture in general. I avoid bringing my daughter for "leisure shopping" . We just go to the mall to buy what we need, grab a coffee then leave. Like the others , I tell my kid she cannot have everything she wants even if she says "classmate X has so many princess stuff".

My husband & I have come up with a mantra every time we are undecided to buy or think its too extravagant: is it a must have or a nice to have? More often than not, it makes you rethink if you really need something.

It does help to surround yourself with friend & family who have the same values as you. At the playground, the two mothers that I've become close to nodded in agreement when I told them I was relieved that none of us were the high maintenance, materialistic type of wife/mum.
 
nicolejoy said:
... for a reality check, you can make friends with some locals and I know compared to them, OUR rent is more than their income so we must seem equally as extravagant...
Click to expand...

Very good point right here!

My thoughts are: When you were growing up were you given everything you wanted? Did you grow up in a wealthy lifestyle? I'm sure some people on this forum did. I did not. So, I don't feel bad one bit having to say "no" to my children for things that we can't afford or aren't willing to spend money on. In my family we got new clothes once a year when school started. I remember wearing shoes that had holes in them. During that time it was difficult because other children had newer clothes than me. But, looking back, I learned that "stuff is just stuff" and the valuable things in life can't be bought with money.

I feel blessed in some ways that we are definitely on the "lower income" side of the "expat" community (although my husband is local so we're not exactly truly expats). When we first came back to HK my husband made 10K/month--which actually is a pretty standard starting salary for many employees in HK. We know people who have started out at 8-6K/month. We had to live with my in-laws at first and then moved out because we needed to but our rent was really high at that time. Nothing like being pregnant with your first child, paying your rent and then wondering how you're going to take public transport to and from work and eat for the rest of the month. But we've never been homeless or hungry so we really are blessed. There are a lot of people in HK who can't say the same thing.

It's not always easy as we never get those trips that you're talking about--this year will be the first time I have been back to my home country in four years and the first time my son has seen his grandfather (my father) since he was an infant (he's now in kindergarten). My employer is paying for our tickets otherwise it's doubtful we would be going anywhere. Before last summer when my in-laws paid for the family to go with them to the Philippines I hadn't been out of Hong Kong on a holiday in three years.

But, for the very reasons you mentioned--the "keeping up with the Jones'" thing that is rampant in the expat community in HK (whether spoken or unspoken)--I find it really hard to relate to most expat families I meet (especially the ones who make a lot of money). I remember once talking to an expat mother who lived on HK Island (someone from Geobaby) and talking about meeting up for a playdate. I mentioned that I lived in the New Territories and she was like, "Oh, just take a taxi..." Yeah....taxi fare would be at least 300-500 HKD or more from where we live and to her that just seemed like a drop in the bucket. That's when I took a step back and just said, "Yes, we're just living in different worlds it seems." The lifestyles in HK are many and varied.

So, if you're hanging out with people who make you feel jealous and miserable, then look for more down-to-earth people who don't. There are people I simply won't spend time with--not because they're bad people but I definitely don't need any fodder to throw myself a pity party--I know myself so I just spend time with people who I understand and who understand me. You can always opt out of the "comparison game" and I felt a lot healthier and happier once I did!

You have to know yourself and know your family and what your priorities are. If your priorities are saving and living a down-to-earth lifestyle then it really shouldn't matter what other people are doing. That's the beauty of being an adult is you can choose. :)

Good luck with your adjustment to HK!
 
The median monthly domestic household income in Hong Kong for 2010 was $18,000. http://www.gov.hk/en/about/abouthk/factsheets/docs/population.pdf
That means that 50% of the population live in families where the income is less than $18,000 a month. In fact only 12.5% of the population live in families where the income is over $50,000 a month and only 3% of the population live in families where the income is over $100,000 a month. These facts makes me feel rich even if I do have to be careful with how I spend money.
SARAH
 
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