How do other mums cope with this stuff?

That is a really tough one. I too don't know of parents who smack so I don't know what I would do in that situation. Is it like a single smack? or like very intense spanking in anger? If it was the later, I'm not sure I would want my kids to see that behaviour but then again I don't think it's a reason for my kids not to be friends with the child. Someone asked me once how I felt about spanking and my response was, "it is OK as long as it's not done in anger. If you are angry, then you are just venting on your child." Hmmm, I'm so conflicted about this, I guess I would bring up the topic in general conversation and see how that mom viewed it. Like try to find out why she thinks it's ok...Hmmm reading my answer, I can see I am not that open-minded about this situation...
 
bekyboo44 said:
I agree- we all parent differently and there is no right or wrong way. Different children require different parenting skills.

But are there some things that are just not acceptable? What, for example, if a friend hits their child as a form of discipline?? I am anti-smacking...and I am uncomfortable with my children witnessing others being disciplined by smacking etc.
How do I approach that?? It's difficult because I am so anti-smacking part of me says 'how can I sit by and just watch, and ignore it,'; but another part of me says, ' these are my children's friends, how can I deny them someone who is their best friend?'

How do people deal with a situation like that??
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Well, to me it depends on how "smacking" is defined. If I saw a child being struck across the face (or anyone) I would definitely step up and say something. However, I have no problem with giving my son a swat on the bottom if he refuses to hold still while I am changing his diaper--and in fact, this is the only way that he has learned that he needs to do that. However, the reason why it's effective is not because I leave welts and bruises on his bottom. It is teaching him that disobedience has a consequence and at this point where his language skills are not developed yet I cannot yet "reason" with him or sit him in timeout. Anyway, my approach is that I am choosing my "battles" carefully and getting an early start in teaching my son that disobedience is not okay--so hopefully when he's a bit older, I won't have to fight so many "battles" because I have been fair and consistent from the beginning.

And as you may have problems seeing a child being spanked in public, that may be a part of you teaching your children that different people do things differently. It's not necessarily wrong but there are always things in this world that we will disagree with and find as unfair. Not that you need to stand there and allow your children to keep watching if it's an issue but depending on your kids' age it may be a chance to spend some time talking to them about it--if it affects them. Those are just my ideas, of course.

Again, if we see anything that is "abusive" I think if we are moved in our heart, we have to follow our conscience--whether or not it's the "politically correct" thing to do. (for example, about 2 months ago I saw a man on a HK street by a bus stop full out slap his wife across the face in broad daylight--I stood up and confronted him--I was the only one of the 50 bystanders that saw it--it might not have made any difference but I know in my heart that it was the right thing)
 
mumto2 said:
its a hard one bekyboo...we too choose to not smack and use time-outs and the naughty step...to be honest none of our friends do use smacking (or if they do I don't know about it) so I'm not sure how to advise on how to handle it. I would make sure she was aware that you do not smack so that she doesn't whack your kid if you weren't there ;-) lol you are bound to have a distasteful look on your face I'm betting if you saw her doing so I'm sure she would know how you feel about it. But I don't think taking the kids away from each other is a good idea.

mlbw - so so funny...I (unfortunately) do the same thing. If someone isn't doing it the same way as me, I assume they haven't done enough research on the best way to do it. lol...ain't that arrogant! BUT I have learned SO much by watching how other mums do things and have friends back home with kids the same age and we share everything we do and I learn off them too. I also have had other mums say that I do "something" well and they're going to try which is always nice too. Why oh why is so tough sometimes...lol
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Thanks! It's good to know we are on the same wavelength. :0)

You talk about smacking being "distasteful"--and to those who do not do it at all, I can see how it is. However, to the person who uses a swat, think about it this way--to her, maybe the fact that you don't "stand up" to your child (that is how she may see it) is "irresponsible" and also "distasteful." I can't count the number of times I've been out in public in HK and the States and I've seen a parent let their child literally run all over them--and because they are in a super market--where there is no way for an immediate form of discipline through time out or the naughty step, the parent just kind of ignores the child--while the child treats the parents and those who have to witness with utter disrespect. It's very hard for those of us that make use of a swat on the bum, to watch that and not think, "If I were them, I would not tolerate that." The way I see it is that a swat is a quick, effective means to stop a behavior in it's track--especially with younger kids who don't quite have the reasoning abilities to think, "I'd better stop doing this because if I don't in 3 or 4 hours, I'm going to have to sit on the naughty step"--it's hard for them to think ahead that far in time.
 
"I can't count the number of times I've been out in public in HK and the States and I've seen a parent let their child literally run all over them--and because they are in a super market--where there is no way for an immediate form of discipline through time out or the naughty step, the parent just kind of ignores the child--while the child treats the parents and those who have to witness with utter disrespect."

Agree that it's not nice for other people to have to deal with a parent not disciplining their child. Moms who don't smack, how do you deal with a situation like this? My son is still young enough where I can do time outs in public places and he thinks it's the same but I can see that when he's a bit older, like next year, it's not going to be so easy. I don't agree that smacking is the only option to discipline when in public. I am hoping that if I am consistent with disciplining unwanted behaviours now while he is 21mths, that he will just be well behaved when he's 3, 4, 5,etc. Haha experienced moms out there, am I delusional??? lol Great thread, it's really nice to be able to talk about this stuff and share thoughts!
 
yep, completely delusional! LOL!

my boy is VERY well behaved MOST of the time.
the best thing i've ever done is follow through on threats. if he's misbehaving in a restaurant, i give 3 warnings. then out we go. on sunday, i left my in-laws in the restaurant as both of my kids were having melt-downs. it wasn't their fault, they were exhausted, so i just calmly told them both that we were going home. it ended up being the best thing i could have done. they were both asleep by the time we left the carpark. in cases like this, it isn't any good to "punish" the children as it is really me that needed the punishment as it was i that put the kids into this predicament.

anyway, i always give 3 warnings, then follow through. as soon as the kids KNOW that what you say, you mean, it makes things much easier.

i've never had to remove my kids from the supermarket or anything like that as they know that i say what i mean and mean what i say.
 
MLBW said:
You talk about smacking being "distasteful"--and to those who do not do it at all, I can see how it is.
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No, no, I said she is bound to have a distasteful look on her face if she saw her friend smacking her child. Given, its probably tantamount to the same thing.:wink: A swat on diapered backside I see a bit differently to a bare hand WHACK on a bare thigh or hand etc. too I guess. I hear what you're saying about the immediate consequences of naughty behaviour but you just have to be inventive really. Even if we are in a supermarket, if she's naughty after her warnings, she is taken to an out of the way area and given 3 minutes on the naughty "ground" (lol) or threats are made to take away any treats she may want (which works more often than not). I also have a "man' voice that seems to stop her in her tracks...pmsl...
 
mumto2,

I see what you're saying--either way, if you make use of physical discipline you will probably see those who don't as "distasteful" and vice versa. I really think that a combination of disciplinary approaches works best. I don't really understand why some people believe it is wrong not to physically discipline their children sometimes if it's within reason. Are they afraid that they will go too far? Do they think they will permanently scar their children? Do they feel pressure from society to be politically correct even if their child is the one who suffers for it? I don't really understand. Maybe those who are anti-physical discipline can give some of their own input?

I really have no problem giving my son a whack on a bare leg or his hands. He has an obsession with electrical cords and outlets so I would rather hit his hand hard once or twice and not have him electrocute himself than talk to him harshly, not have him get the message and get seriously hurt. That's what I really mean by choosing my battles wisely. When he's getting his diaper changed and he crawls away trailing poo behind him because he refuses to hold still, I got tired of saying harshly over and over again, "hold still" and I started giving him a "love pat" on the leg--guess what? He doesn't squirm away anymore when I change him and so I don't even have to really swat him anymore. I believe in dealing with things once and for all--especially when it's a repetitive behavior and it's dangerous (or super annoying--liking having poo smeared all over your bed sheets every day).

For me, a combination of whacks, "the look" and a change in vocal tone accomplish my disciplinary goals. I also believe that it depends on the child. When I was growing up (and now) I was a very strong-willed child and without physical discipline, I would have totally run amok. If my mom set me in "time out" I would push her buttons so far that at 7 years old I would willingly sit there for hours and there would be no change in my behavior or my attitude--I saw that as a waiting challenge and about my will overcoming hers--I would willingly suffer for as long as it took just to be stubborn.

However, sometimes my mom had to "break my will" to be disobedient. I got lots of spankings and those made the most impression on me. When I got older, my brother and I ran laps around the block when we got in trouble--sometimes running miles at a time just because we wouldn't submit to her authority. After those sessions we would do anything to not have to do that again.
 
interesting thread.
MLBW, I take a non-physical approach when it comes to discipline and I do this for one main reason; I do not want my children to EVER think it is ok to hit/smack another person. We are role models and I try to lead by example on this point. having said that, I have resorted to smacking on one occastion - my son was continually running out onto the road and would not listen when we said 'stop'. he thought it was a game when we chased after him. So in this case, given it was so dangerous we gave him a good whack around the legs the next time he did it and he got the message. Similar situation to you and the electrical cords i guess.
I have been tempted to smack him sooo many times but that is generally out of my frustration more than anything and that is not a really good enough reason
 
This is a really interesting thread. Leaving aside the debate about smacking I always find it amazing that people judge other people's parenting styles as either good or bad, not just 'as they are'. The very vast majority of parents try to do what is best for their children (as many people have mentioned), who are we to judge them for doing things in certain ways?

I think there is far too much pressure placed on parents, and in particular on women these days and women certainly don't need to be bitching about women anymore than they already do! Just because you've read something in a book doesn't make it right or applicable to children across the board. In our playground we have a mum that has read all the books and talks all the lingo and beyond the fact that it is really annoying, (because she talks so much about it that she clearly thinks she's a better parent than everyone else ) it's also had no effect. Her child is more misbehaved than most kids his age. Makes me laugh. But you just know she goes home and tells her husband what a great job she is doing and how she can't believe what the rest of us do!
 
Has taken me awhile to get back to this thread (some days with a toddler and baby am not sure if I'm coming or going).....

My son will be two next week and has never been smacked- not even a soft wack on the nappy. I am anti smacking and refuse to use it, regardless of the situation.
He is very well behaved...but has his moments, like any toddler.
We have found that talking firmly, time out works with him. I usually give him two warnings that then that's it- he gets taken away, or the toy he is throwing gets taken away.
I have never been in situation with him, i.e. a dangerous one.
He has been told walking on the road is dangerous and he keeps off the road; if something dangerous I tell him so, and rarely have to tell him more than two or three times.

I know why my friend disciplines the way she does- it's a cultural thing. It's still widely acceptable in HK to hit 'naughty' children with slippers or the like. And still is in many cultures.

How about a parent who bites a child when they bite another child; or pinches them when they pinch another child?
I find it so difficult to watch, but I let it go- because it isn't abuse (well I suppose it could be argued as such) but there is no violent beating etc. Ultimately it is just not how I would parent- and I suppose the ultimate conclusion is- who am I to judge? No one.

I just wondered how others coped when a friends disciplining was so at odds with what you do.

At some point I will explain to my son why he and his friend are disciplined differently- but might wait awhile, a bit heavy for a 2 year old.

A recent bbc news article found that 1/5 of teachers in the UK favoured bringing back corporal punishment for really badly behaved children. Interesting.....

Just because I don't believe in smacking doesn't mean I don't have strict ideas about discipline, even at nearly 2 my son knows there are ways to behave and ways not to!
 
P.S. By biting a child when they bite, I mean biting them back until they cry; or pinching them repeatedly until they cry.
 
When it comes to disciplining my son I find the following help/useful:

1). Consistency- for example, we have a rule that he can not ride any bicycle or scooter unless he is wearing a hooter; and at first he use to try and get on his bike and ride away with a helmet, or would wear the helmet and then half way through riding his bike try and take it off.
But every time I firmly reminded him, 'no helmet, no bicycle,'; and then would take the bicycle away or take him off the bicycle and remind him, 'no helmet, no bicycle,' it did produce some spectacular tantrums at times but it works.
Now when he sees people riding bicycles without helmets he shouts at them, ' naughty- no helmet, no bicycle,' which can be a bit embarassing! :)
2). Being firm helps, letting him now that you are the on in charge...and this is doable without smacking....for example, my son has just started to go into a shop, pick things up and decide he wants it. I will tell him yes or no, and if no why, i.e. because he already has one at home etc.
If he still insists on walking out of the shop with it, I take it away from him and put it back on the shelf- if this prompts a tantrum, I calmly pick him up and take him out of the shop.
3). Warnings help- so, for example, I warn him that if he pushes his friend one more time, or throws that toys on more time (this is on the 2nd time) then he will have 'time out,' or the toy will be taken away. Then if he persists he or the toy get taken away regardless of the tantrum they produce (I am lucky though, my son tends to save the huge tantrums for at hme, any he has outside tend to be more manageable).
4). I try to keep raising my voice for serious or dangerous situations, i.e. trying to step onto the road- and that makes him realise how serious I am.
5). Distraction helps too.

This is what I do- and is not me trying to publish the 'right' way or the 'only' way- it's just what has worked for us, w/out needing to smack or use physical means of discipline.
 
well, beky, i agree with some of what you have said, but i had an instance of my normally VERY well behaved son....

for weeks on end, he kept going up to my younger daughter (about 13 months at the time) and grabbing her around the throat, from the back to give her a "hug" however, when he did it he kept trying to pick her up (so his hands were under her chin).... i TRIED everything to get him to stop. i tried gently taking him away and explaining the problem to him, i tried my STERN, MAMA'S ANGRY NOW voice, i tried time-outs, i tried taking toys away....EVERYTHING!!!

finally, one day, i was coming down the stairs and saw him doing it again, except this time he had picked her off her feet and she was starting to turn purple in the face. so, i did it to him. he didn't like it at all and started crying, even though i hadn't been rough...it was the ONLY thing that made him stop. he hasn't done it since and will never do it again. the thing is, he didn't KNOW it hurt. no matter how much i told him that it did and that it was dangerous, he didn't believe me.

i know, he wasn't doing it to hurt her, he was trying to show affection. but there are times that desperate actions call for desperate measures.... this was one of those times.

after it all happened, i was VERY upset. i called my mother in tears telling her what a horrible mother i was. she rightly calmed me down and said that sometimes kids need a dose of their own medicine to realise just what it is they are doing. she was right.
 
ps> i never used a physical means of discipline until after my child turned 3. before that he was one of the best behaved children i've ever met... then he turned 3 and his inner monster surfaced! LOL! Just joking, he's still really well behaved... most of the time...
 
Cara- I think the situation you described is a unique one, and one which required extreme action- and I suppose that is the challenge of parenting, responding to whatever comes our way, as it comes.

As for why I don't believe in smacking-
1).Because like mumto2 I don't want my child to think that smacking and any kind of physical punishment is ok. How can I tell him not to hit his friends when he's angry or frustrated or wants something, if I then smack him as a form of punishment? I think its hypocritical and seems to me too much like, ' do what I say, not what I do.'
2). I have never found it to be necessary (but have never been in a situation, like cara's for example). I have always found that a stern voice, a raised voice have worked- even in a dangerous situation. However I am not looking forward to the day when I can no longer just pick my son up and take him away from a situation....!

I don't see why I have to hurt him, however slight or momentary, to teach him right and wrong.
I also want him to understand right and wrong- I want him to know not to cross the road without holding my hand, not because if he doesn't he will get smacked, but because it is dangerous.
I want him to know that it is wrong to hit others because it is not nice, because it makes his friend sad- not because if he hits others, I will hit him back.
I realize this is not easy to do with a toddler but it's something I intend to persevere with.
 
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aussiegal said:
...in particular on women these days and women certainly don't need to be bitching about women anymore than they already do! we have a mum that has read all the books and talks all the lingo and beyond the fact that it is really annoying, (because she talks so much about it that she clearly thinks she's a better parent than everyone else ) Makes me laugh. But you just know she goes home and tells her husband what a great job she is doing and how she can't believe what the rest of us do!
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hello pot, met kettle? lol
 
with regards to why i don't smack...i think because
i remember seeing this skit somewhere years and years ago of a mum and naughty child and the child had just whacked his friend and the mum came over "we don't (whack!) hit (whack!) other (whack!) people!" ...I remember thinking the irony of the skit was hilarious and just never forgot how confusing it would be for a kid...also the whole "pick on someone your own size" always comes to mind...lol

Given everyone's situation is different with different little personalities we have to deal with...AND given that my daughter listens when I use gruff voice..if she didn't and was about to run across moving traffic, well I can't say for certainty I wouldn't whack her one out of fear and the hope that she remembered the whack and not do it again...I just don't know what I would do...
 
Thanks for sharing moms. I have always taken the no smacking approach because I was smacked around as a child and resented my parents for it. I remember telling my friends something along the lines that my mom would just get mad, smack me, and then everything would be ok...

Just a question, if you smack, at what age will you stop smacking?
 
funny... i was abused by my father, but for all of his physical abuse, what still REALLY bothers me was the emotional abuse i suffered from him. yes, i remember the physical abuse... being dragged around the house by the hair, wallopped so hard it was hard to sit.... etc... but it was the things he SAID to me that i continue to struggle with as an adult



as for my mum.... she would threaten the wooden spoon, but i don't EVER remember her smacking me. if she did, i had probably done something to warrant it. i don't have any negative memories of my mother...
 
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