I was being glib when I made the ?horrible person? comment. It?s nice to hear everyone actually discussing their thoughts and beliefs.
?By your logic, we are cold, heartless chattle. Here only to work and contribute like unfeeling animals or robots. Elderly should be disposed of instead of loved and cared for by their extended family, the unemployed should be cast out of socity instead of given a second chance and anyone who ends up terminally ill or otherwise unproductive has no worth to the rest of us so let's get rid of them too. It's sickening...?
My logic never said anyone in existence should be wiped away. I said I ?struggle to understand? why anyone would knowingly put a disability into this world. If I had a magic science wand that could stop all the suffering of the elderly or diseased, you bet I would.
?Again, by that logic, none of us should be having children at all, given how overcrowded the world is and how many children there are that could be adopted.?
Yes I suggested that as a solution once to people who were adamant about how we are destroying the earth. Population control would be the only effective way of dealing with overpopulation, if you think it is truly a problem. Malthus thought we would all starve to death ages ago. It doesn?t take into account technological advances and the basics of supply and demand. People also though we would run out of oil, but simply put, the more we use the more expensive oil become and the more resources we put into conserving it or finding new sources. It is the same with population growth. As the population grows and there are shortages of food for example, the cost of raising a child will increase and it will affect people?s choices of their family size. HK tuition is a good example. I have hear time and again people not having more than 1 or 2 children become of the costs of raising a child here.
?Are you saying that parents of disabled children are more selfish because not only are they selfishly satisfying the same personal need as parents of non-disabled children are but their children are never going to contribute to society because they cannot be independent??
Yes, more or less that is my sentiment. Having children could be construed as a selfish choice. Are selfish choices bad? Not necessarily. Selfishness is actually a necessary condition for human existence. In one way or another, we need to put some of our own interests above those of other in order to survive daily. Like I said, individually and collectively as a species, we all have to live with our choices.
?how do you decide if the disability is sufficient enough that you would not go through with the pregnancy?
-is being blind enough?
-or deaf?
-or maybe both?
-what about if they developed a pre-birth test for autism? would that be enough??
Personally if I had the choice I would not have a child that was below average intelligence or has any type of disability. PERSONALLY. Of course 1/2 of this world is below average by definition. If I knew with certainty I would never have a child if I knew they would be blind or deaf. PERSONALLY. Because I am self interested. Aspergers and Autism is interesting because there has been a movement by those individual to have it classified not as a disability but as a difference. There are many intelligent autistic people and they have an uncanny ability to focus so they could be savants in certain areas. I think physiologists are going overboard and there are way too many classification for mental ?illnesses?. Life can be challenging and some suffering is good for us. Anyway, I am degerssing.
?But I think that most parents who have disabled children are not thinking that the future of their child lies in being a ward of the state, they are working to make sure exactly the opposite. Some, of course, may not succeed.?
It was already said here that 90% of parents who found defects after an amnio terminate. They probably weighed their options and make some judgment that mirrors some of my reasoning. If you are rich and choose to provide for your child, sure that is your own choice. Is it selfish? Yes probably. (see my comments about selfishness earlier) More benefit could probably be provided to many starving children with the same resources it takes to raise one disabled child. Can you make that choice? OF COURSE. Do I understand the logic? Not really.
?Also, remember that these parents did not choose to create a child with a disability. It happened and they considered the options and decided that they would like to have a shot at the same gratification that you and I have with our children, even though the child is disabled and it would be more challenging to provide for it.?
This is a good point. I can empathize with older couples wanting to keep a child if they believe it is their only shoot at being biological parents. But if I were in that position I may rather adopt a normal baby than raise a biologically disabled one.
?I recommend that everyone take such a course as it really opened my eyes to a lot of research regarding disabilities and people who have them and just the whole concept of inclusion in society and social justice.?
Agreed. It was never an argument against social justice. I believe we should always make the best of life. And it is more beneficial to be inclusive of everyone. However, equality in any form (and not just for disabilities -- gender, sexual orientation, etc.) for the human race is a pipe dream. We are not all equal. But should we be entitled to social justice? Yes. Equality and fairness are not the same. And you are certainly extrapolating my views on social justice without any basis.
?You're entitled to your opinions. I find them disturbing based on the latest developments in society (the concept of social justice etc.) and what research tells us. We're all entitled to our opinions and it's great we can express them here. But, as I've learned...having a strong opinion also means one must be prepared to be challenged and well, rejected sometimes. That's life..?
I would like to add that we are not all ?entitled? to our opinions. Some opinions are not correct. I didn?t say my opinion is absolutely right. In fact, more people should consider that their opinions can be wrong and that being intelligent creatures we should try to understand and back up our opinions with facts and reason. Why did I state my opinion? Of course I wanted to be challenges and hear other?s opinion. Maybe there are points of views I never considered before. My opinion is not a judgment. It is a conclusion I have come to with my understanding and experience. Will it change and grow? Most hopefully.
