Does your helper stay out late?

Status
Not open for further replies.
.....

" So it seems she is happy to work like a slave"

She is probably not happy at all. More likely so scared that she can not get another job as she has a family in her home country that she needs to look after. As a result of her stress, her work suffers, her mental health suffers, the children she is caring for may suffer... I am sure that the employer would know the rules about employee staff and they should. Some people don't see the connection between a content employee and a job well done.
 
Last edited:
My helper has no curfew on her days off and as far as I am concerned, she can do what she likes on her days/time off. It allows her the freedom of meeting other people and leading some sort of a normal life. I get so angry when I see helpers working a 7 day week or not getting Public Holidays off. We get to go out in the evenings for dinner/cinema trips so why should we treat them any different? A couple of times my Helper has told me in advance that she will be staying out and I am fine with that.

As far as I can see, giving my helper some freedom on her days off allows for her doing a better job in the long run as she appreciates us more and she is not imprisoned 24/7 in the confines of our apartment - if anything...it's healthy.
 
Bumps - where have you been all my life??

I think there are three things to keep in mind here:
1. The helper/employer relationship is inherently intimate - you have to share living space. If you, as an employer, expect your helper to live with you, then you have to accept that it is no longer just your living space, it is their living space, too. (ie. if your husband is disturbed by the front door opening, tell him to use earplugs. How on earth did he cope when chilren cried during the night?)
2. Everyonbe needs time off tp recharge their batteries. For me, the ideal way to recharge is a pack of Tim Tams, a block of chocolate and an old move. Other like to dance it out, and others (God forbid) like to talk to men. Perhaps yuor helper even has a boyfriend - so what? It's their business. Are you going to try and dictate the social mores of everyone who comes into contact with your kids?
3. Having said that, if you feel that the helper's work is suffering, then by all means you have the right to request an improvement. But I am not sure that it should be up to an employer to dictate where/how they spend their off time. Helpers may not be as wordly wise as some of the women in here, but most if them work very hard to support their families, and are making a sacrifice we couldn't dream of. As has been mentioned, many are well educated (ie. speak English better than their employers - ) and just becasue someone isn;t from a big international city doesn not mean they do not understand the intricacies of life. You get low life in small country towns, just as you get narrow minded, provincial people in the big ones.....
 
I couldn't agree with Happy V's point 3 more - the ONLY reason for prescribing what a helper does on her own time is if it negatively effects her work.

That said, I have both gone into work and looked after my kids with a raging hangover. Neither situation is pleasant, but it happens on occasion and the sky doesn't fall in.

Personally, I don't think 10pm on a weeknight is late at all.
Midnight on the weekend is pretty reasonable also.

The helpers in our building meet up in the common areas and sit chatting and laughing til around midnight on Sunday's, sometimes during the week also.

Even if they were dancing WITH MEN in Wanchai I wouldn't consider it to be any of my business (unless of course it was 'business'...).

In any other country that would be wholly normal behavior for a single woman in her 20s/30s.
 
wanfamily, i hope you know that my posts were not directed to you (unless specifically stated) but rather to a poster after yours.

i am in no doubt whatsoever that you are trying to do right by yourself and your helper.

good luck!
 
Bumps said:
.....

" So it seems she is happy to work like a slave"

She is probably not happy at all. More likely so scared that she can not get another job as she has a family in her home country that she needs to look after. As a result of her stress, her work suffers, her mental health suffers, the children she is caring for may suffer... I am sure that the employer would know the rules about employee staff and they should. Some people don't see the connection between a content employee and a job well done.
Click to expand...

I don't know the situation that was cited, but with our helper, she chooses to work on some of her days off. I do not work her like a slave. I told both our helpers that we appreciate their help (making it easier on us) and if they choose to work on their days off, we will pay them extra for their work. One chooses to take her days off to see friends, the other wants to send more money home, and we are fine with both decisions. What I am trying to say is that just becos a helper works on her day off, it does not automatically mean she is treated like a slave, sometimes it is the helper's personal choice.

As for curfew, I ask my helpers to come back before 10pm and they are fine with it, in fact, they come back mostly before 9pm. I was told that there was not much to do after 10pm. In any case, I think since clubbing or staying out very late was not generally something they did in their home country, they are not really asked to give up something they view as normality/necessity. On the occasions that my helpers had something special going on and needed extra time out, we were fine with it. We just wanted to know that they are safe and when to expect them home.

Obviously, if you are of the school who thinks that it is ok for helpers to hang around nightclubs, run around with lots of different men, drink and smoke and come back all hours during their day off (being their own biz and no one elses), then it's great, cos that means you will never have a single worry or fear about your helper ever.

If like me, you worry about your helper smoking, getting pregnant etc etc, I do not think it's terribly unreasonable to impose a few ground rules. I know having a curfew does not mean a helper would not get up to no good, but it does limit some less desirable places or acts that one associates with nighttime. I assume this is also the reason why we try to tell teenagers not to stay out so late. But I think these house rules should be laid out when one is hiring, so both sides can know what to expect of each other. If a helper thinks it's unreasonable, then she has the choice of not working for that particular employer.
 
"Oviously, if you are of the school who thinks that it is ok for helpers to hang around nightclubs, run around with lots of different men, drink and smoke and come back all hours during their day off (being their own biz and no one elses), then it's great, cos that means you will never have a single worry or fear about your helper ever."

i came here as a 22 year old single female. i was right out of uni. and i had decided i really wanted to experience hong kong. i had a GREAT time! yes, i went to nightclubs (where people smoked~not me... i think it is disgusting!), i danced with men (uh oh, i'm in trouble now), i may even have ended up dating some (oops, i guess we all forget what it is like to be young, huh!?!?)! yes, i drank. yes, i got drunk. yes, sometimes i even went home with my date (is that too much information?). i had NO ONE here to take care of me. that was fine. i was an ADULT. i chose to do what i did. i was having fun! i ALWAYS went to work the next day and probably worked even harder if i was suffering a little.

this does NOT make me a bad person. this does NOT make my irresponsible!


as i used to tell my mother, "if i'm going to get up to no good, i can just as easily do it at 1pm as 1am...." my mother agreed.

funnily enough... my mum was fairly lenient with me when i was younger.
 
carang - couldn't agree more.

** Since when do smoking and getting pregnant operate on the same level of 'unacceptable?? A helper can get pregnant at 8pm just as easily as at 10.05pm. Ditto for employers being overly fastidious when it comes to minding other people's morals.
 
carang said:
i came here as a 22 year old single female. i was right out of uni. and i had decided i really wanted to experience hong kong. i had a GREAT time! yes, i went to nightclubs (where people smoked~not me... i think it is disgusting!), i danced with men (uh oh, i'm in trouble now), i may even have ended up dating some (oops, i guess we all forget what it is like to be young, huh!?!?)! yes, i drank. yes, i got drunk. yes, sometimes i even went home with my date (is that too much information?). i had NO ONE here to take care of me. that was fine. i was an ADULT. i chose to do what i did. i was having fun! i ALWAYS went to work the next day and probably worked even harder if i was suffering a little.

this does NOT make me a bad person. this does NOT make my irresponsible!
Click to expand...

Carang - In fact, that made you incredibly responsible, cos I am sure you were informed enough to have safe sex and not get any sexual diseases or pregnant either. And even if you did, I am also sure you would know how to and had the money to deal with it. I am not trying to be rude or sarcastic. But there are a lot of young helpers out there who are not as informed as a young you and such temptation may lead to undesirable consequences.

Yes, it's true that if you are going to get up to no good, you can just as easily do it at 1pm as 1am. But no one really goes clubbing at 1pm, so I assume eliminating the 1am would also eliminate the clubbing scenario. There is no rule that "good time" leads to trouble, but it can. The difference is that I am not my helper's mother, so I do not have unconditional love for them even if they do err.

As I said, if one does want to impose a curfew, it should be explained before hiring, if that has been agreed before both parties, there really should be no more concern on that matter.
 
Happy V - addressing the small issue of smoking, I am one of those anal people who hates the smell of cigarette smoke, so I would not employ a smoker. And yes, no matter what you clean your mouth with, you can still smell a smoker. And yes, it applies to the whole household, I complain when my husband comes back smelling from 2nd hand smoking too, so not bias on that front. You can tell I am one who is ecstatic about the government smoking ban!
 
I think some of you are being overly harsh and having fun taking 'the moral highground' rather than actually contributing reasonable advice as the OP asked for.

For those who are into setting rules, at the end of the day it is the your right to as long as these rules are laid out at the time the job is offered (and not after someone has started work) then the helper can always say no.

Of course some people will always be extreme in the rules they set but i can completely understand not wanting a helper to be out after midnight when she has work the next day. Personally, if it happens once every few months I wouldn't have an issue at all but if it happened a few times a week, as it does for a friend of mine I would.

It is not easy managing the strange relationships we have with helpers. They live in our houses but at the end of the day are employees. They are adults but not all act responsibly. Some need rules, some don't. Some do the right thing, some take the piss, especially out of new employers which is what the OP is.

Wanfamily, i didn't read anything offensive in what you had to say but i did find it offensive (and unfair) the extreme reactions others have had.

Andrea, i think you are being reasonable. You laid out your rules at the beginning.

On a side note, we have always hired helpers who were married and had finished having babies. It wasn't about 'minding someone else's morals' and not wanting them out partying, it's about not wanting them to get pregnant and leave, which is both expensive and disruptive. We have a friend who is now in the unfortunate position of having a helper who initially started being difficult when told she would need to babysit the kids most fridays because she'd found herself a boyfriend (and wanted to party) and now, only a few months later is pregnant. Helpers of course have a right to get pregnant but if having a pregnant helper isn't in your plan what's wrong with wanting a 'good catholic girl' who wouldnt' want to get pregnant without being married?

And to stir the pot, we have two ex-helpers in our building who have 'replaced' the originals. Hopefully when your husbands are out bar hopping (or working late i think they call it) they won't be hooking up with HappyV or Bump's helpers and planning ways to leave...

I'm being extreme only to counteract some of the stupid comments here.
 
i am by no means advocating 'NO RULES' in the house. i, too, think it's a good idea to set them out at the begining, whatever they may be.

when i hired my helper, our first and only so far, i told her that i thought she was an adult and i was going to treat her that way. if she behaves irresponsibly and it affects her work (ie. coming home at 2am drunk and unable to work the next day), then she would be fired.

in the 4+ years she's been with us, she's come home after mid-night once and that was new year's eve.

she's NEVER come home drunk. she's NEVER been unable to work after being out with her friends.

that's all that matters to me. it is not up to me to decree what she can do and what she can't. she is 43 years old. if she doesn't know how to behave by now, then she is NOT someone i want helping to raise my children.

maybe the problem that some have is hiring the wrong person/wrong fit for your expectations? if that is the case, imposing rules on an adult is not going to work. perhaps you need to find a better fit for your family?
 
carang said:
i told her that i thought she was an adult and i was going to treat her that way.
Click to expand...

You see i would find this incredibly insulting. Imagine telling an adult they are an adult and would be treated as such. Shouldn't you just have said nothing if you are really going to treat them as an adult?

I can't imagine my husband going to work and his boss telling him he is going to treat him like an adult.

Weird.
 
i don't think i actually said those words. it was 4 years ago, but i made myself clear that i wasn't going to tell her how to behave. it was up to her. i wasn't going to give her a curfew. i told her that i figured she was older than i was and that she would be treated with respect. just as i expected to be treated with respect.

personally, i would be more insulted being treated like a naughty teenager than being treated with respect.
 
Last edited:
but i can see this conversation is just going to go the tit for tat way (myself included).

i hope that wanfamily has come up with some ideas on how to handle the situation.

helper issues are always, always hotly debated, each side getting their knickers in a twist...

when it comes down to it, i believe, that we should treat others the way we would want to be treated. to each of us this is different, we all have different expectations, backgrounds, cultures, religions and there is no easy answer to most of these types of questions. just as with raising our children, we do the best we can and what works for our family. that's all we can do.

have a good night everyone!
 
carang said:
i don't think i actually said those words. it was 4 years ago, but i made myself clear that i wasn't going to tell her how to behave. it was up to her. i wasn't going to give her a curfew. i told her that i figured she was older than i was and that she would be treated with respect. just as i expected to be treated with respect.
Click to expand...

Whatever the words the meaning is the same. We've never had any such discussions with our helper. I've never said, 'i'm not going to give you a curfew' or 'i'm not going to tell you how to behave.' We simply let her get on with her job, to me that is treating her with respect.

I'm pretty sure the OP hasn't gotten anything out of this thread since it was hijacked by the righteous police!
 
I think when you are talking about an employee/employer relationship where the care of children is involved, the rules need to be slightly different.
It's not about treating helper's like children, it's about everyone agreeing where the boundaries are.

I know from experience that expat nannies can be much worse, when it comes to saying out late and drinking, and then having to get up early and care for children.
When I worked as a nanny in HK before having my own kids, I learn't very quickly that late nights out and my job didn't mix.
One friend in particular was notorious for boozy late nights, and very quickly was fired from her job, and rightly so.
Nobody wants to leave their child in the care of someone who is too tired to function.

I don't impose a curfew on my helper. But I have intentionally hired a helper that isn't interested in going out during the week, in a year it's only happened once.
I have no idea what time she gets in on Sundays, and I don't mind as long as she is up and able to do her job on Monday.

Every family situation is different, and you shouldn't apologize if yoiu are uncomfortable with your helper's behaviour.

Wanfamily, if you are happy with your helper's work then it may be fine.
It doesn't sound like she is out partying.
 
Last edited:
I have to say this is so far the most intriguing thread I've ever read. Great discussions, ladies! Here is what I have to say:

1. First of all, I haven't had the impression that any lady employers in this forum are abusing/ill-treating their helpers. The bad employers would have gone and done the nasty deeds without asking:tongue: So let's all cool down and try to help those in need of advice without trying to turn every thread regarding helpers into a heated advocation for their rights and how they should be treated correctly;

2. Bumps: do you even have a helper? If you do, care to share how you interact with her? Otherwise opinions purely based on your assumption or theory are much less convincing than from a more realistic perspective;

3. HappyV: congratulations on finding your soul mate! However, may I ask you to think twice next time when you present your extreme examples? The one regarding some helpers speaking better English than their employers is simply rubbish. Since when speaking good English has become a criterion on evaluating one's educational level? And the one about asking someone's hubby to put earplug in? I don't think any employer is given a choice by the government to provide free accomodation in their already limited space. Luckily for employers though, at least they are in the position to dictate that the employee should modify his/her way of 're-charing batteries' if it gets in the way of their 'recharging of batteries---by having a peaceful night's sleep!

4. Carang, I know for a fact that you are a very kind-hearted person and you also have a fantastic helper. However, regarding 'rules': every one needs them! There are rules in play in any successful relationship. The society needs them in order to function in an orderly fashion...Being an adult in no way guarantees or equates to 'being able to do the right thing'. Human beings have so many weaknesses! Millions of adults are committing crimes every day even with the toughest rules with most severe consequences attached...So ladies, be free to lay down the rules depending on what kind of helper you are having. Some need more, some need less...

5. And for the ladies who go out of the way to make your helpers 'at home', i.e. by getting up before her, etc. DON'T. By paying a helper and having to sacrifice your privacy and so on to do it, she's there to make your life easier and happier! If you are not feeling so, it's time to change something, or someone...

Having said all these though, I have a wonderful helper who my family and I fully respect, and has in no doubt become a member of the family. She has the freedom to do anything, because I already know that she has her own 'rules' and standards which are higher than I would've had; and because she knows that I would be worrying about her safety if she didn't call after 10pm without coming back HOME!

Have a good night, everyone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top