Do you need a car seat in hong kong?
- Thread starter sushierao
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Honkyblues
Registered User
The laws of the land say you don't need one.
The laws of physics say you do.
I can't believe that if you drive your own car, you wouldn't put a car seat for your baby in it. Do you really think that in any kind of accident your mom or helper holding your baby will actually protect it? If they even managed to hold on to your baby, their own body weight (especially when multiplied by G-force of impact) would probably kill or seriously injure your child. But it's most likely that as the baby's weight when thrown forward in a 30mph crash is equivalent to 8 bags of cement, they will be unable to hold on to your child who will become a flying missile in the car (or through the windscreen).
Take a look at:
http://www.capt.org.uk/safety-advice/keeping-your-child-safe-car
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it beggars belief that when you have your own car you are seriously considering doing without a seatbelt.
The laws of physics say you do.
I can't believe that if you drive your own car, you wouldn't put a car seat for your baby in it. Do you really think that in any kind of accident your mom or helper holding your baby will actually protect it? If they even managed to hold on to your baby, their own body weight (especially when multiplied by G-force of impact) would probably kill or seriously injure your child. But it's most likely that as the baby's weight when thrown forward in a 30mph crash is equivalent to 8 bags of cement, they will be unable to hold on to your child who will become a flying missile in the car (or through the windscreen).
Take a look at:
http://www.capt.org.uk/safety-advice/keeping-your-child-safe-car
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it beggars belief that when you have your own car you are seriously considering doing without a seatbelt.
carang
Registered User
one of the things i REALLY don't understand:
in hk, parents seem to take their kids to the doctor the second they have a runny nose.... "my child's health is the most important thing" they say....
then they hold their baby in their lap while in a car! it really boggles my mind....
do you want your baby to become a bullet? that is what will happen if you don't restrain him/her properly in a car seat!
if you love your child and your child's safety is really the most important thing to you..... get a car seat... and use it! i don't care if the baby cries for an hour straight (mine did!).... at least the baby is safe!
in hk, parents seem to take their kids to the doctor the second they have a runny nose.... "my child's health is the most important thing" they say....
then they hold their baby in their lap while in a car! it really boggles my mind....
do you want your baby to become a bullet? that is what will happen if you don't restrain him/her properly in a car seat!
if you love your child and your child's safety is really the most important thing to you..... get a car seat... and use it! i don't care if the baby cries for an hour straight (mine did!).... at least the baby is safe!
. A personal choice, but not required by law.penguinsix
Registered User
People are rightly pointing out the physics of this, so I thought I'd try to give you a bit of an example. My math is a bit rough here, but basically it would work out something like this:
For a newborn, goto the store and buy 4 liters of say Pepsi. That will weigh about 4kgs, or about 9 lbs. For a six month old, get about 6 liters (about 15 lbs).
Goto the second floor of a building, about 20 feet off the ground (for a quick comparison a double decker is about 14 bus feet tall). Sit down and have the Pepsi in your lap (not clutching it, just sort of in your lap).
Close your eyes and than have someone push you off the edge (because you never know when an accident would happen).
Did the Pepsi break? Were you able to hold it in your arms?
At 20 feet, by the time you hit the ground you'd be going about 25mph (40km/h), which is probably the average speed on many roads, but well below the freeway speeds. When you hit the ground, your newborn 'baby' would be thrown with the force of 250lbs out of your arms. It would be basically be a projectile ripped from your arms and thrown into the windshield of your car.
This isn't a perfect example but might give you an idea of some of the forces you'll be dealing with trying to hold a baby in your arms during a car crash.
Please, get a car seat. Take no comfort whatsoever in the fact that the government has failed to mandate you to do so.
Get a car seat, please.
(others who didn't sleep through physics lessons can feel free to update my math).
More on the math:
http://www.wku.edu/~david.neal/116/Unit2/FallingObject.pdf
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-208805.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070920020229AAfLIfp
For a newborn, goto the store and buy 4 liters of say Pepsi. That will weigh about 4kgs, or about 9 lbs. For a six month old, get about 6 liters (about 15 lbs).
Goto the second floor of a building, about 20 feet off the ground (for a quick comparison a double decker is about 14 bus feet tall). Sit down and have the Pepsi in your lap (not clutching it, just sort of in your lap).
Close your eyes and than have someone push you off the edge (because you never know when an accident would happen).
Did the Pepsi break? Were you able to hold it in your arms?
At 20 feet, by the time you hit the ground you'd be going about 25mph (40km/h), which is probably the average speed on many roads, but well below the freeway speeds. When you hit the ground, your newborn 'baby' would be thrown with the force of 250lbs out of your arms. It would be basically be a projectile ripped from your arms and thrown into the windshield of your car.
This isn't a perfect example but might give you an idea of some of the forces you'll be dealing with trying to hold a baby in your arms during a car crash.
Please, get a car seat. Take no comfort whatsoever in the fact that the government has failed to mandate you to do so.
Get a car seat, please.
(others who didn't sleep through physics lessons can feel free to update my math).
More on the math:
http://www.wku.edu/~david.neal/116/Unit2/FallingObject.pdf
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-208805.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070920020229AAfLIfp
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Will baby carrier protect your baby in a moving vehicle?
Researchers Kathleen Weber and John Melvin of the Highway Safety Research Institute at the University of Michigan Medical School tested this scenario using a 30 mph, front, dynamic crash test of the type required by the current federal safety standard for child car seats. In the crash test, an adult held the baby in a soft, cloth front carrier like the Baby Bjorn and used a lap/shoulder belt. The researchers found that this infant was at a very high risk. The tested carrier shredded completely, ejecting the infant dummy into the dashboard. If the carrier had not shredded, they found that the infant would likely still not have survived. As the adult's head traveled forward in the whiplash motion, the adult's chin would have slammed down into the infant's head right where the soft spot is.
If you find yourself in a taxi with just your infant and a Baby Bjorn (hopefully you never will), there is no way to protect your baby. However, you can still protect yourself by wearing your seatbelt. Putting the seatbelt over you and the baby will only make matters worse. It will not help the baby and will endanger you in the process.
The link: http://www.thecarseatlady.com/taxis/using_taxis_8.html (more relevant information about how to protect your baby in a car in the link)
Researchers Kathleen Weber and John Melvin of the Highway Safety Research Institute at the University of Michigan Medical School tested this scenario using a 30 mph, front, dynamic crash test of the type required by the current federal safety standard for child car seats. In the crash test, an adult held the baby in a soft, cloth front carrier like the Baby Bjorn and used a lap/shoulder belt. The researchers found that this infant was at a very high risk. The tested carrier shredded completely, ejecting the infant dummy into the dashboard. If the carrier had not shredded, they found that the infant would likely still not have survived. As the adult's head traveled forward in the whiplash motion, the adult's chin would have slammed down into the infant's head right where the soft spot is.
If you find yourself in a taxi with just your infant and a Baby Bjorn (hopefully you never will), there is no way to protect your baby. However, you can still protect yourself by wearing your seatbelt. Putting the seatbelt over you and the baby will only make matters worse. It will not help the baby and will endanger you in the process.
The link: http://www.thecarseatlady.com/taxis/using_taxis_8.html (more relevant information about how to protect your baby in a car in the link)
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_levitt_on_child_carseats.html
Whilst I'm not fully agreeing with him. He does raise some interesting points re: the carseat manufacturers.
Think I will stick to MTR... Btw, what if the MTR is involved in a headon crash, how to secure your baby in that situation??
Guessing statistical data doesn't mix well with potential emotional loss of child...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using GeoClicks Mobile
Whilst I'm not fully agreeing with him. He does raise some interesting points re: the carseat manufacturers.
Think I will stick to MTR... Btw, what if the MTR is involved in a headon crash, how to secure your baby in that situation??
Guessing statistical data doesn't mix well with potential emotional loss of child...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using GeoClicks Mobile
Err, inapplicable when talking about babies (as this post is).
Re: MTR crashes, I don't think there has ever been a head on collision of MTR trains, so that type of concern is similar to 'how do i protect my baby from TVs falling out of windows' - could happen, but unlike a car crash, highly unlikely.
We use a rear facing car seat for our 2 year old that can be used up to age 4. I believe it's much safer to keep children rear facing for as long as possible, though most countries laws don't support this. Scandinavian countries have advocated keeping their children rear facing til aged 4 or so for a long time, the US changed its recommendation to rear facing till age 2 last year, but in many countries the recommendation is still only rear facing till 1 year old. It's also hard to find stage 2 rear facing seats in Hong Kong, we had to get ours from the UK.
Here's a useful website on it - http://www.carseat.se/
Here's a useful website on it - http://www.carseat.se/
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I can't believe someone even came on this forum to ask this question.
If you have a car, of course you get a car seat for your baby.
As for the MTR question -- I think that's a different issue. For most of us who DON'T have cars, a car seat may be a bit silly. I find that public transport, like the MTR, is much safer than, say, a taxi or a friend's car.
On the rare occasion that I need to take baby in a taxi, I strap her to me in a Baby Bjorn, and then put the seat belt over both of us.
If I had a car, I'd definitely get a car seat. (And if you can afford a car in HK, why wouldn't you spend the relatively small amount of money to ensure your baby doesn't get seriously hurt in an accident?)
If you have a car, of course you get a car seat for your baby.
As for the MTR question -- I think that's a different issue. For most of us who DON'T have cars, a car seat may be a bit silly. I find that public transport, like the MTR, is much safer than, say, a taxi or a friend's car.
On the rare occasion that I need to take baby in a taxi, I strap her to me in a Baby Bjorn, and then put the seat belt over both of us.
If I had a car, I'd definitely get a car seat. (And if you can afford a car in HK, why wouldn't you spend the relatively small amount of money to ensure your baby doesn't get seriously hurt in an accident?)
carang
Registered User
liquorice, just a quick question about keeping them rear-facing for so long.... where do they put their legs? if my 4 year old was rear-facing, her knees would have been at her chin!
i'm not disparaging you, i really am just looking at the logistics of it... how does it work?
i'm not disparaging you, i really am just looking at the logistics of it... how does it work?
Well, I haven't got there yet as my son is only 2, but he's tall. The seats are quite high - mine is on a base and locked into the isofix things on the car - so there is room for the legs to hang down. It's also a good view out of the window, because of the height, which means he's not stuck looking at the back of a seat all the time.
The manufacturer says the seat can be used to age 4 and 18 kilos, but my boy is already almost 15 kilos so we may not be able to make it to 4! I'd like to use it for as long as possible though.
Take a look at some of the photos on the Swedish rear facing car seat website - gallery - as they show older children in their car seats in the car.
The manufacturer says the seat can be used to age 4 and 18 kilos, but my boy is already almost 15 kilos so we may not be able to make it to 4! I'd like to use it for as long as possible though.
Take a look at some of the photos on the Swedish rear facing car seat website - gallery - as they show older children in their car seats in the car.
Gracey,
Please look at qwert12's earlier post on the use of baby carriers (like the bjorn) in taxis and consider googling the use of a baby carrier in a cab. If what I understand is correct putting the seatbelt over you and the baby can be fatal to the child in even a low impact collision (in which the baby might otherwise survive even if thrown) as the belt will tighten and crush the baby without exception.
Please look at qwert12's earlier post on the use of baby carriers (like the bjorn) in taxis and consider googling the use of a baby carrier in a cab. If what I understand is correct putting the seatbelt over you and the baby can be fatal to the child in even a low impact collision (in which the baby might otherwise survive even if thrown) as the belt will tighten and crush the baby without exception.
To be honest, I used to use my Baby Bjorn in a taxi relatively often. I thought that it was relatively good protection so watching qwert12's video is quite interesting. Though I wonder how much difference it would make in a crash if you had your arms around your baby as well as wearing the Bjorn? The dummy's arms are just loose whereas I would always wrap my arms around the baby too, and wouldn't you instinctively grab your baby to protect it in an accident? Obviously your arms alone wouldn't be enough to stop the baby flying forward, but I wonder if baby bjorn + arms would make a difference? Or is that just a bad grasp of physics?
Thanks for the tip!
I seriously cannot believe Hong Kong does not have a car seat law, I knew it hadn't but still. There's a law to use your seat belts but a small child can just sit wherever ... You only need 30-40-50 kmph to have a child (let alone baby) fly through a car, no highway needed. I see so many people here even with slightly older children without any seats. Every morning I see driver after driver dropping small children off in expensive cars at a very expensive school (with multi million dollar debentures) but no car seats in the car and sometimes with helpers holding babies on their lap. I find it unbelievable.
In the US they would call 911 for endangering your child. My almost 6 yo still in boosters, my oldest (8 1/2) is now no longer required by EU law to be in a car seat (over 135 cm), so I just took her out this summer (she hardly sits in the car anyway). She was in a harnessed seat up to 6 years old. I got rid of my last 5-point harness seat that my 5 yo was still sitting in happily and they are now in boosters. Got all my 5-point harness seats in the US, up to 65 lbs, so no problem to use them for a long time. With everything we know about car safety how can you not buy a car seat for your baby when driving your own car?
Carang, I had mine rear facing up to 18 months or so. Now in the US they advise until at least 2 (1 year is mandatory + 20 lbs). It's true that in Sweden they even go much longer. In the end, the longer you can manage the better as their neck muscles get stronger and are more likely to withstand the impact. In the end, as many rf experts say ... rather a broken leg than a broken neck ... Crash test results that compare the 2 will show you a major difference in impact. It's quite scary actually. Can find them on Youtube.
In the US they would call 911 for endangering your child. My almost 6 yo still in boosters, my oldest (8 1/2) is now no longer required by EU law to be in a car seat (over 135 cm), so I just took her out this summer (she hardly sits in the car anyway). She was in a harnessed seat up to 6 years old. I got rid of my last 5-point harness seat that my 5 yo was still sitting in happily and they are now in boosters. Got all my 5-point harness seats in the US, up to 65 lbs, so no problem to use them for a long time. With everything we know about car safety how can you not buy a car seat for your baby when driving your own car?
Carang, I had mine rear facing up to 18 months or so. Now in the US they advise until at least 2 (1 year is mandatory + 20 lbs). It's true that in Sweden they even go much longer. In the end, the longer you can manage the better as their neck muscles get stronger and are more likely to withstand the impact. In the end, as many rf experts say ... rather a broken leg than a broken neck ... Crash test results that compare the 2 will show you a major difference in impact. It's quite scary actually. Can find them on Youtube.