Desperate for advice PLEASE

G

Gemma

Registered User
For the last 5 months, my 21 month old has been waking up at various times in the middle of the night, screaming hysterically. Sometimes it's noise from the living room (if we had not gone to bed), sometimes I think he's had a wee, sometimes it's from a cough. Usually the waking time is between 12 midnight and 4am.

Problem is he cannot self settle, not even if we go into his room and pat and shush. He keeps screaming hysterically until one of us lie down on the floor next to him. He will also lie awake for ages and checking periodically to see if we are still in the room. Dad has been doing this for the last few months to try to get us through, as we have a 2 month old now but I am sick of having my hubby away half the night, and I don't think this is a solution either. We have tried a night light and that doesn't help either.

I hate seeing him like this and suffice to say, his quality of sleep must be so poor. At the moment he is crying himself out and I hate seeing him like this. He has also in the past been so hysterical he even vomited.

PLEASE does anyone have any advice, is there anywhere in HK we can get professional help?
 
he could be having night terrors, both of my kids suffered from them... but now, he's gotten used to having daddy sleep on the floor next to him, soh, what started as a legitimate problem, has now developed into a habit.

we always had to tough it out and let the kids cry (neither of mine ever vomited from crying... i think they instinctively knew what my reaction to that theatrical display would be)... my daughter, i leave for 10-15 minutes, then go in and ask if she'd finished. if so, i would offer her a cuddle. while i give her the cuddle i explain that i will sing prayers and then put her back to bed, that i need sleep, too. for us, that has been what has worked.

my girl still wakes up occasionally screaming/crying in her sleep...and she's 5 now.
 
my daughter at around 17-19mths also did that ...though she didn't cry till she vomited...she would just somehow wake herself up. she was rooming by herself at that time. now that she is older...well, 21mths, she's rooming with her older sister, and (touchwood) the mid-night wakings have completely stopped! we've since discovered she's scared to be alone, so even when we had the night light on we would have to stay with her till she fell asleep and tip toed out. anyhow, any chance you can have the baby room in with her? I know it's kind of early, but perhaps just at about the time she sleeps, perhaps have the baby inside, so she feels "safe" and then remove her when the older one is asleep? will they eventually sleep in the same room? that really helped us.
 
Another vote for night terrors. Not necessarily a bad 'dream' but the emotional feelings of fear or being scared while they are sleeping.

We found some similarities with our son's incidents. Primarily between 10-12midnight after going to bed about 8:00. We followed the advice of a 'mild stir' to disrupt the sleep cycle somewhat. About 9:30 or so we would go into the room and whisper or move a blanket just to the point that they would 'stir'--roll over one side or the other or move their hands or something. Not waking, just stirring. This would disrupt their sleep cycle a bit and help forestall the night terrors that were occurring at those hours.
 
Thanks everyone.

I don't think they are night terrors as he seems to be awake and recognizes me and yells mama. Last night when he woke at 2.30am (woke himself up with a cough) he was standing in his cot and pointing at the spare bedding in the corner, indicating he wanted someone to bed down with him.

I agree that there is probably a fear of being alone. My mum suggested the same as lesliefu did, to put my 2 month old in the room, but it is hard logistically as I still have to tend to her quite often at night and she is still learning to self settle.

I tried letting him cry it out last night. Screaming lasted about 45min at bedtime as he didn't want to go to bed, then lasted 15 min at 2.30am. I really hate it, it's so traumatizing.

I'd expect more of the same tonight. Sigh. Is there any other way?

really hate it,
 
not really... but 15 minutes isn't bad. maybe he'll be down to 10 minutes tonight.

perhaps you should remove the bedding from his room? otherwise, he won't truly "get it".

ps> my daughter looks for all intents and purposes like she is awake. she can have a full on conversation with me... but she's not awake. she's most definitely asleep. i was exactly the same when i was younger. i still talk in my sleep...hubby wakes me about 1-2x/week to ask me to stop talking!
 
Have you tried introducing a soothing CD into the room while your son is falling asleep? He's nearly 2-years-old so he might even enjoy a CD with stories. My son listens to a story CD every night before he goes to sleep. Lately, I've added a few burned CDs of music from iTunes into the mix.

Basically, if you're going to keep him rooming by himself you're going to have to sleep train him for real and that means going through a few tough nights (maybe a week or two at most). I recommend reading "Secrets of the Baby Whisperer" and following the instructions. It's not easy but a lot of moms and dads have been through it (including me). Vomiting is not the end of the world. While it's not pleasant, in the initial stages you're probably going to have to overlook it.

The other option is start co-sleeping with your 21-month-old. I know quite a few co-sleeping advocates who could give you testimonies and tips. Doesn't work for everyone but it's another option that might work for you.
 
What's his bedtime? Research has shown that children who are overtired (too late bedtimes) have more trouble falling, but also staying (and falling back to) asleep). My children didn't start developing night terrors (and still very rare) until much later, 4-5 years old.

My children have been going to sleep very early from very early on, and they still go to bed early. My 5yos are in bed at 7.15 pm and my oldest, almost 8, at 7.45 pm, and when they were really young it used to be between 6 and 7 pm. Honestly, I can count the number of times they get out of bed on my 2 hands (apart from night terrors, jet lag, etc.). I believe well rested children sleep better. The more tired they are, the more difficult it is to settle whether it is at night or in the middle of the night.

If you're a loving parent (which I believe we all are), this is not going to traumatize your child. You're teaching your child to settle by himself, going back to sleep by himself. Good quality sleep is great gift. Don't beat yourself up about it.

I read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child as he was our children's pediatrician in the US.
 
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i agree, mommyto3, i find kids here go to bed so late! it still shocks me, even though i've been here for so long and dealing with children of this age on a daily basis... the number of times i have heard about 1-3 year olds going to bed at 11pm or later, is just shocking! i do realise it is very related to culture, though.

my kids now 5 & 7 are in bed by 7:30 on weekdays.... i am a little more lenient during holiday periods though....but then the kids have a nap during the day.
 
Thanks ladies.

He goes to bed usually at around 8.30 and yes, I agree I'd like for him to go to bed earlier. He has a 2 hour nap around midday. Problem is dad struggles to be home from work by 8pm and he really cherishes the little time he gets with him each day. They both get very excited when they see each other which is lovely, but does not help things. Dad bathes him at 8 then storytime then bed.

I think I will have to bite the bullet and start his bed routine earlier. I also think he is feeling left out ( with new baby around) by having too short a storytime with us as he is always wanting another book.

This morning he woke up at 6.15 ( he normally wakes up at 7-8, screamed for 3 minutes and sat back down to sleep. In hindsight I think he had a poo and woke himself up.

Thank you for the music suggestion, I might try and play some soft Mozart or something, maybe this will also drown the household noise as well. He is a very light sleeper.
 
Do your husbands miss out on seeing the kids in the evening? Or do they spend time w each other in the mornings?
 
we are lucky as daddy works from home, although, one of his busy times during the day is bedtime for the kids. so, i have always put them to bed and daddy goes in to quickly tuck them in when he's finished walking all of the dogs.
 
That's v lucky cara. My husband gets depressed if he doesn't see the little man for 24 hours, which sometimes happens if he is super busy. Their bond has grown from strength to strength since our second LO was born. In turn I've felt my bond with him has weakened and that is creating issues with me, but that's a topic for another day :(
 
I agree that the problem could be that he is overtired so earlier bedtime could help.

I have a 3 year old who has had far more noisy nights than quiet ones in his life. Either nightmare, night terror or just night time fussing, not being able to get back to sleep. Very recently it got worst until a couple nights back when I put the aircon on and he has slept much better since. We do also sleep in the same room (not same bed) and are having trouble changing that.

Good luck, let us know how you do!
 
We do Daddy time in the morning. Evenings with Daddy don't help the night as Daddy will arrive just as LO is ready for bed and it excits him and delays the whole routine. But it's easy in the morning since LO gets up before 6am and Dad does not have to go to work until 8am.
 
Gemma said:
That's v lucky cara. My husband gets depressed if he doesn't see the little man for 24 hours, which sometimes happens if he is super busy. Their bond has grown from strength to strength since our second LO was born. In turn I've felt my bond with him has weakened and that is creating issues with me, but that's a topic for another day :(
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My husand gets to spend time with the children in the mornings and on weekends. He leaves central to get home here (gold coast) at 8pm so arrives in at 8:40 ish. My daughter (2) goes to bed at 7 and my son (7) goes to bed at 7:30 - 8:00 pm. It can be hard on my husband, but on the rare occasions when he gets home early (7 pm) my daughter gets so excited to see him, wont go to bed and knocks her routine!
 
Has his diet changed at all over the past 5 months? Reason I mention it is now my son has started proper food, we've discovered he has quite a bad intolerance to cows milk which resulted in him having very bad cramps at night, with him waking up screaming in agony (his father has just recently been diagnosed with the same hence we thought to check for it - had just put it down to teething etc). Since cutting out/changing to goat yoghurt etc, he's been much much better. I'm not sure if it's something that can develop at a later age too. Worth a look if the routine change doesn't help maybe?
 
AmyH said:
My husand gets to spend time with the children in the mornings and on weekends. He leaves central to get home here (gold coast) at 8pm so arrives in at 8:40 ish. My daughter (2) goes to bed at 7 and my son (7) goes to bed at 7:30 - 8:00 pm. It can be hard on my husband, but on the rare occasions when he gets home early (7 pm) my daughter gets so excited to see him, wont go to bed and knocks her routine!
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Same here. My husband never sees the children during the week, sometimes in the morning. Never in the evening. It has always been like that. It's not great for my husband but it's what's best for our children. We benefit from the fact that we have well-rested children, at school, in the weekend, at night ...
 
I don't think 8.30 pm is too late if your son has generally being going to bed at that time and he doesn't seem tired at bedtime. Like me son used to go to bed at 7.30, then 8 and now 8.30 but it's never after 9. But the delay was a natural progression, not us pushing it backward. Both my husband and I get about an hour with him before his bedtime.

You mentioned that your son might be affected by your second baby and that might be something to consider. I'm surprised how sensitive even very young children are to this emotional stuff. My husband went back home for a short trip during Easter and it coincided with the departure of my in-laws who were also visiting. Ever since they left, my son started waking up at night a couple of times crying. But since my husband got back, it's stopped.
 
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