confused about the languages

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baguette

Registered User
We are Italian.
Our daughter, 2 years old, speaks Italian and understand English (can actually say some sentences) as she's attending anAustralian pre-nursery in Dubai.
now we're moving to HK and I don't know what to do.

Carang, met here on Geobaby, suggested a "local" nursery where the directions are given in Cantonese.
WE are very corious and interested but...

isn't it too much?
Italian, English and Cantonese.

IF we succeed in keeping her English..but being in a Cantonese school for most of the day she'll probably speak Italian and Cantonese.

does it make sense? none of the two languages are spoken worldwide.
nobody in the family will ever be able to help her with her Cantonese.

Mandarin would be better for us as I can speak it and I may be helpful or at least able to understand what she says.

I am really confused and afraid my girl will turn out not able to speak any language correctly.

What would you do?
Is there anyone else who's not native English or native Chinese speaker here?
 
Actually, cantonese can be hard for the child to learn if she doesn't come home and speak it as well since it's only a spoken dialect. i would try putting her in an international school that teaches a good amount of putonghua. if she picks up the cantonese, great, but it's not a loss if she doesn't know it. putonghua is really the language to learn while you're in asia.

try the ESF schools which, I believe, try to put some emphasis on teaching a sufficient amount of chinese. if you really want your child to be billingual, the Singapore Int'l School is another option (if you don't mind the 'singlish' accent that is) or for a local option, KCS in North Point uses Putonghua and English as their MOI and that's where I'll be sending my child who will start nursery this coming Sept.
 
baguette, it's a very personal decision. one that only you and your husband can make.

for us, learning the local language was essential. even if my kids weren't mixed, i would have considered it essential. the reasons that other parents have decided on local schooling (at least for kindergarten) are wide and varied. when talking about kindergarten it is NOT necessary that someone at home speak the language, too. AFAIK the other "white" kids at school do not have anyone else at home that can speak the local language. i do agree that once you get to primary school it would be more difficult to continue in a local school if there isn't this "back-up", but at that point most western people put their kids into ESF.
most of the local kindies will also do english & putonghua as well (at least the one in question does).

if one parent at home speaks italian and the other one english, your child should not have any trouble with the 3 languages.

and no, i don't think it's asking a lot from your child. it's only for a couple of years anyway...

just my 2 cents...i'm sure others will disagree.
 
At my son's school, there are a couple of non-native English/Chinese/German/French speakers. And they've chosen the English stream for obvious reasons.

The realities and ramifications of not having English or Chinese as your native language (or one parent's native language) will be shown later in the child's opportunities and language development.

I'm not an advocate of the local school system as I've worked in the local school system. It's just not good enough and there are so many shortcomings for children in non-English/Chinese contexts. It is one thing to deal with English/Chinese at the early stages - it's easier but when they get older, they suffer as in primary schools, it's not set in stages or supported as well as in many local kindergartens. Teachers simply don't have the time or resources to support learning the learning of a non-native English/Cantonese speaker. If your child doesn't cope with either languages and you can't find a good local school, you'd be placing your child in a situation with a lot of other elements you'll be very unhappy with.

I've worked in the system from P1-senior high and I see how bad it can get. Unless your child is extremely lucky to score a great local school with great teachers and learning support, skip the local system.

Stick to the international school system as long as you can afford it. If you're still keen on the local system, try the DSS schools for a better fit - PLK Camoes (Mongkok), Yuen Yuen (Tuen Mun) ... such schools actually make provisions for non-native English/Chinese speakers and the kids actually cope well because it doesn't actually comply with the local system.
 
i have been teaching kids of all ages in hk for almost 15 years, so i DO know what the local schools CAN do.... i'm not talking about primary or secondary school here, the OP's child is only 2 years old. I'm talking about kindergarten. that's it.
 
Baguette, sorry, I forgot to mention that in the school I am currently working, there is an Italian/Chinese girl who has been in the local system since kindergarten.

Her English and Chinese abilities are neither good nor bad. She has problems in both - not so much with speaking as her main problem is in intonation. She can't spell well nor write well. But I'm working in a Band 2 school though. And in this school, there is a great emphasis of both languages. Her parents can't afford to send her to an international school system so she's stuck with the local system.

The decision you make at 2 in HK can affect (depending on how long you intend to be here) for your child's chances of getting into an international school. As an Italian family, there is no first priority in the international school system for you. Our son's good friend is Italian and they have chosen ESF even though they started with a local kindergarten at pre-nursery.
 
baguette said:
We are Italian.
Our daughter, 2 years old, speaks Italian and understand English (can actually say some sentences) as she's attending anAustralian pre-nursery in Dubai.
Click to expand...

You've obviously started a path for your child. Best thing for a child is sometimes to limit change - especially at that age.

I am aware of Carang's experience but as a full-time ESL teacher in a local school, I deal with, on a daily basis, the long term ramifications of parent's decisions in their child's early years - the school I work with is a through train school - K1 - S7. The problems in early years especially with languages don't disappear but are made worse in the local school system.

Some children cope with many languages and some don't. 3 is just too many for a young child - there is such a thing as language confusion in children and the child might become a jack of all trades but master of none as linguistic research has shown (which is demonstrated very much later in their education).
 
i would suggest looking into the victoria international nursery & kindergarten system. they have international streams and bilingual streams (so you'd be choosing between mandarin & english or cantonese & english). all the languages are used in context and the kids that I have worked with (that have NO chinese at home) learn to listen to chinese well because of the way it is used in context, rather than being actually taught as a language - there are classes, but very short so quite insignificant in my opinion - but having said that, the kids know when to use mandarin (mandarin teacher), english (english teacher) and cantonese (everyone else) and it's not confusing...even the most confused little girl is able to cope with all three because the language is contextualized.
 
If you're not here for the long run (and I know we never know for sure) I wouldn't "bother" too much with the Cantonese. Make sure she gets to speak good English and Italian. You can always choose for a bi-lingual stream with both English and Mandarin. Our children are bi-lingual and having Mandarin a few hours a week as a third language. Since we don't plan to stay here for many many years, that's sufficient for us.
 
Ok.

first of all, being Italian, even if she learn "only" English she's gonna be bilingual (of course to say so she must have learnt it well), so with the Chinese (M or C) she would be trilingual (ans Mon2Sofie's kids).

I think we should start from this point: she will already have 2 languages to learn.

Second, we cannot speak English at home with her because we are both 100% Italian and, as 99% of the Italians our English is not very good, our vocabulary is poor and we both have a strong accent.

The best English speaker at home is the girl!! believe me.

But, on the other hand, still it would be a pity being born in HongKong and living there and not being able to speak a world of Chinese.

I don't know....

p.s. anyway, I believe Cantonese is not only a spoken dialect, as someone said.
I have friends studying it in University and they even take an ancient language exam.
 
Baguette, there are after school classes for children interested in other languages. Our son's school has Saturday classes for Putonghua. Lots of kids in his school attend Putonghua classes during the week too in private playgroups at least once a week just for fun.

And all international schools (including ESF) has Putonghua. We're in the ESF system and speak no Chinese. He is already struggling with another European language as that is his second language. And even with Putonghua just once a week, the boy can sing in Chinese! It's not very clear but we were completed astounded by him counting in Putonghua (of course part of a song).

So, as a third language goes, we're quite satisfied with his development. We're currently searching for a second language class for my son's second language. And, as far as I know, from an Italian family we are close to, there's Saturday Italian classes for Italian children overseas to keep up with their literacy and numeracy when they're in K2?/P1? I'm unsure.

Also, I'm hiring one of my students who has graduated from high school recently to be my son's Putonghua teacher twice a week. It costs me just $40 per hour as I'm not looking for an expert! Just someone I trust who can play with him in Putonghua. So there are ways to learn Chinese not just from the local school system :-) My son's classmate (from another EU country) learns Putonghua from local SAHM ladies they hire at local costs. She comes round once a week, plays with the kids in Putonghua.
 
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I learned acient Chinese at school and many of the sounds are origially cantonese and being adopted to putonghua sound.

But in the modern Chinese, the written form of Cantonese only uses in Hongkong, although cantonese is spoken in the province of Guangdong and Hongkong. Cantonese in the mainland has many types of accents. Most people in the Mainland would struggle to read and understand the complicated form of Charater use in Hongkong.

So like many suggested here, if you are not staying in Hongkong for long, there is not much a point for your child to learn it. But she probably would develop an ear for it from people around her and watching TV.

A lot of expats in Guangdong would learn Putonghua because knowing this would get them futhur than cantonese.

Anyway, my 12 month old is exposed to English, Putonghua, Cantonese, a local dialect and German.

English-- mother to son, mum with
Cantonese--helper to him, helper with mum
The local dialet--my parents and relatives to him
German--mu husband's parents and relatives to him


We are trying to limit to two at home:English and cantonese. ( I would prefer Putonhua to be the other. But my currunt helper speaks it poorly. ) We plan to send him to an English medium international school here. (choices are very limited in this city in the Mainland. But prices are similar to those in HongKong)

If I were you, I would also keep it to two. Italian and English. Then learn the third for fun.
 
all i can say is that everyone chooses what they believe with most benefit their children, both in short term and in the long term.

we each make the best decision we can for our own families and our own kids. we all have different needs/preferences and circumstances that influence our decision and in the end it is up to us, the parents to decide what is best for our own situations.
 
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