Can you spoil a 15 month old?

S

sherwes

Registered User
My 15 month old is just entering toddlerhood and exhibiting all of the behavioural quirks that come with it. He is a very active boy and sits still the least of any of his other baby friends. By 8am every morning he is standing by the front door, holding his shoes and grizzling to go out! At playgroup he is pretty much the only toddler who won't sit and listen to the stories and songs (he just wants to be running around).

I am a working mum and my helper is a lovely, gentle lady who adores my son. However, I am worried that she is a bit "soft" on him. She runs to him at the slightest grizzle. I think that this is appropriate for a baby under the age of 1 but should we be encouraging a 15 month old to be more independant/resilient etc? He basically points and he gets what he wants.

My husband is also a big softie and thinks our son should never want for anything. I think that he should never "need" for anything but that sometimes it is good for them not get their own way or to have to work for something that he wants. For instance, should we "make" him sit during story time at playgroup?

Am I too tough?? Do 15 month olds need discipline?? Should I just be going with the flow and waiting until he is older to worry about these things??

I should add that myhelper, husband and I all agree that a firmer hand is needed for issues of physical safety and health so my question isn't related to those issues.

I would really appreciate the help or more experienced mums. I am really torn between my fear of raising an "expat brat" who thinks that the world revolves around them and my fear of crushing the spirit of my charming beautiful boy with needless discipline.
 
i'm with you sherwes! children WANT & NEED boundaries. they are happier with them they know what is expected of them.

instead of saying "no" to things, try "later" or something like that.

you need to choose your battles, though. you can't expect behaviour to change overnight. i DO expect 15 month olds to wander at playgroup (as you know i teach playgroups) when they are new... however, i ALWAYS encourage them to follow what is expected. i allow some wandering around, but when it starts to distract the others, then i gently guide them back to what the group is doing. i don't force them to sit, i encourage it.

i also encourage all the children to tidy up their own toys. we play a special "tidy up" song. it is amazing that a group of 15-18 month old babies hear the song and start tidying up on their own! it's because they know what is coming, and what is expected.
 
ps> it is very cute when a 15 month old does something that they shouldn't necessarily do... but not so cute when that child is 3 and running the house expecting everything to be dropped for them and to be entertained 100% of the time.
 
It is really hard for a 15-month old to sit still. They are just beginning to discover their "independence." My girl is now 22 months and just this morning didn't want to sit during Story Time at playgroup. That said, she is much better at sitting down than her brother was at the same age.

Personally, as long as she isn't disturbing others or wreaking havoc during Story Time or Circle Time, I will not "make" her sit down. I would still talk to her, though, about why I need her to sit down. With mine, I find that if I force her to do anything, she will NOT do it, but when I "get down to her level" and look her in the eye and talk to her in a kind but firm voice, explaining to her why I want her to do something, she will do it --95% of the time.

"This, too, shall pass." Take heart. :) I always say, better a spirited child than a too-docile one.
 
My son does not really sit still and he also 15-months-old. That's why I hesitate to enroll him in any "formal" learning environments unless I know that the leaders/instructors are laid-back or not too aggressive about making him sit still. And instead of thinking that he is not doing what he is supposed to be doing--I really see it as this is part of his personality and the stage he is in so I don't make it an issue. The truth is that soon enough in life he'll have to "color inside the lines" and follow the crowd and do all those things to get along in society but right now he just needs to be a little toddler exploring the world.

But, I do tell my son "no" and I have since he was probably 6-months-old. I received a bit of good advice from a man with two very well-behaved daughters. He said that if you start early with discipline and be clear, consistent and fair then you basically do yourself a huge favor by setting the stage to not have to establish good behavior patterns later on. He said that even the "twos" which are supposed to be so "terrible" were better just because they started early.

Of course, I don't tell my son "no" on everything but some things are "no" and will remain "no" or at some times, some things are "no" and at other times they are okay. He understands "no" and although he might whine and even cry sometimes, I have no problem letting him hear "no" from me. I am not afraid of his crying or whining--because in life, no one gets everything they want all the time. That's one thing that motherhood has really instilled in me so far--a type of steeliness that really can endure a lot--even the whining.

I am kind and fair about how I approach these things so it is never harsh or mean-spirited. And when he starts to cry I simply say, "Yes, honey, I know that you want me to give you your pacifier right now but that is for when you are sleeping." Then, I distract him and he soon forgets what he was so upset about. I also often tell him when he wants to get into something I don't want him playing with, "No, these are for mommies and daddies but not for babies."
 
At 15 months you need to pick your fights as Carang says.

So what if he won't sit still like or as long as other kids. My two boys were the same. Then one day they just got a bit older and now listen really well and follow instructions. (they are 20 months and 3). At 15 months your little one will still be coming to terms with the fact that he can run around and explore on his own. He won't want to be stopped.

I'm not sure a 15 month old should be sitting still (other than to eat) to be honest. Is it in their nature? Wanting to go outside so soon after waking is also very normal and I see it in both my children but especially the youngest. At 3 my eldest is now happy to play make believe with his toys for hours at a time but until a little while ago it was all about getting outside and exploring. And really, who wants to stay inside small apartments? Hell, I don't! Give him time, he'll be fine.

Of course, being naughty is something else but I certainly wouldn't categorise being curious and active as being naughty. If you pick your battles, i.e. when you're out shopping is not a time for him to run around like a clown but he can go for it in the playground etc then you can start to teach him that there are certain rules that govern our behaviour. At his age this should definitely be done.

I really recommend you read Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph if you haven't already. At your son's age you are the most important person to him. It's ok if your husband is a bit of a soft touch as long as he becomes stricter when he's a bit older and in need of a male role model. (say from the age of 4-5). Biddulph is also a big believer in letting boys be boys. He even argues that boys should start school a year later than girls as they are generally more restless and in need of more physical outlets than girls.
 
"He said that if you start early with discipline and be clear, consistent and fair then you basically do yourself a huge favor by setting the stage to not have to establish good behavior patterns later on."

this was the point i was trying to make, i just wasn't doing a very good job of it! LOL!

a child's natural inclination is to explore. i explain that to every parent that walks through my playgroup door. i do NOT expect the children to sit docilely (is that a word?). i ask the parents to let the children wander. HOWEVER, the more often the children come, the more the are exposed to the routine of playgroup, the faster they usually want to participate. i still gently say, "oops, mummy's over there.... can you walk to mummy?" or something along those lines when the children become a distraction for the others in the class.
 
Carang, from the use of capitals I take it I may have offended you somewhere! I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said. When i said it's in a child's nature to explore rather than sit quietly and to let them go with it I was refering to parents who absolutely insist that their child sit quietly upon command and for however long they deem fit. I agree that putting them into certain situations over and over (like a formal playgroup with a structure etc) will help them learn when to sit still etc.

But I must also say that every child is different and should be allowed to develop at their own pace and according to their own personalities. My first son was an early talker, is extremely curious when it comes to learning and just loved going to a formal thrice weekly playgroup from the age of 2. My second son, now coming up to two is the opposite. He is incredibly co-ordinated (walked at 10 months, can hit tennis balls, catch balls etc) and is an outdoorsy type. His nickname in the playground is 'actionman'. But, he has little interest in books despite us reading to him every day and his talking has only just started to get into the two words in a sentence category. There is no way we'll be putting him into any sort of school as early as we did his brother, it would just do a disservice to who he is.

Personally, i love seeing the huge differences in my children and working with these differences. I also find that some things just happen when they get to a certain age. One day they go from being an uncontrollable rascal to an angel who sits still because they realise there is more to be gained from doing so (i.e. they want to know what happens in the story rather than just turn the pages). They learn to use the toilet rather than wee in a nappy. They understand the concept of sharing. Timing is everything. You can try to pre-empt development but if it doesn't happen easily they are just not ready. Let it go for awhile then come back to it later.
 
Thanks for your valuable feedback guys. It is great to hear the views of those who have been through this stage.

Carang, thanks for your thoughts. I knew you ran a playgroup so I thought you would be a helpful person to answer this post! I do believe that children are happy if they are encouraged (as you say) to have some structure.

Aussiegal, my son sounds like your second son. His nickname is "non stop baby". Even when he was a tiny baby he is constantly kick his legs like he was trying to run around!!

I am with all of the posters 100% that I don't want to try to turn my son into a docile child. I love that he is energetic and spirited. The way he just jumps up in the morning and embraces life is fantastic (thank goodness I have a helper though as I would struggle to keep up!).

It's more that my husband and helper and such softies that they think that I child should never whinge or cry. Personally, I think it is ok for them to whinge or cry if you have said "no" to them for a good reason. The kind of examples I am thinking of are my son whinges and so my heper picks him up and he points to where he wants to go and she carries him around. This can go on for ages. If I was home I would say to him (after a few minutes) - "mummy is tired (not to mention 6 months pregnant) and she wants to sit down now. If you want to book you can walk over and get it yourself". Obviously I wouldn't use all of those words but you get the gist!

I think that the nub of my worry is coming from the fact that if we were back living in Aust my son would just have to fit into the family routine. i.e. if I was doing the ironing I would stand in the playpen to do it and bad luck if he cried because he wanted to come in. If I was cooking and he wanted to come into the kitchen he would have to be strapped in his high chair for his own safety and tough luck if he didn't like it. Having a helper in HK is a real luxury and allows for our children to have so much more attention than they would otherwise get. I just won't want my son to be a "little emperor" who thinks that the world revolves around him and what he wants at any particular moment.

I grew up as one of 5 children in a house where both parents were workaholics. I certainly would not wish the lack of attention I received as a child on anyone but I have also seen the effects of over indulgence on children. My sister is so soft on her children that her 7 year old still isn't toilet trained - seriously, she poos her pants just to show her mum who is boss!
 
I also find that some things just happen when they get to a certain age. One day they go from being an uncontrollable rascal to an angel who sits still because they realise there is more to be gained from doing so (i.e. they want to know what happens in the story rather than just turn the pages). They learn to use the toilet rather than wee in a nappy. They understand the concept of sharing. Timing is everything. You can try to pre-empt development but if it doesn't happen easily they are just not ready. Let it go for awhile then come back to it later.
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I so agree with this. Every child is different and they will get "there" (whatever it is that we think they should be doing), in their own time. Sometimes, as parents, we fall into the trap of "benchmarking" our kids against other kids of the same age, and while it's completely natural to do so, we just have to remember that each child is unique and we should celebrate that uniqueness.

I am not suggesting that we be permissive and let them run wild, just that we should not be overly fussed about them not being able to "listen" and do what we want them to do all the time. As quite a few have mentioned here, we have to learn to pick our battles. Easier said than done, I know, but that's part of the challenge (and fun!) of parenting.
 
Sherwes, maybe have a talk with your helper and make sure that she is on the same page as you with regard to how much attention she can give to your child and explain why that is, so that she has a better understanding of your child-rearing philosophy. It's not easy for them (the helpers) to let the child cry for fear that you might think that they did something wrong, hence the rush to pick them up or give in to whatever the child wants.
 
no, no offense was taken...again, just using the odd word in capitals for emphasis. i am very sorry if offense was given.

i totally agree that every child develops at their own pace.

i do still believe though that some things like sitting down are not as important as say.... throwing toys at the tv...THAT should be stopped immediately.

walking around during a playgroup is not naughty it is merely being curious. throwing themselves on the floor and screaming their heads off because they are angry is naughty, as far as i'm concerned.
 
Sherwes, my son is 15 months old too and look like yours a lot ! he wouldn't stay still in the playgroup, but after a few weeks he is getting used to the group and knows what to do when it's time to play or read or dance... I was already convinced that routine was important with the sleeping/eating/going out things, but is still now with their activities.
You seem to be aware of what a good balance is, between having his own character but learning about the limits too... just talk to your helper, and little to little she will get used to let him walk alone where he wants to go, cry when he can get something, and learn about respect... and your baby will probably fit into the new situation with no problem.
 
carang said:
i do still believe though that some things like sitting down are not as important as say.... throwing toys at the tv...THAT should be stopped immediately.

walking around during a playgroup is not naughty it is merely being curious. throwing themselves on the floor and screaming their heads off because they are angry is naughty, as far as i'm concerned.
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Absolutely.

Sherwes, like Buckaroo I think you need to speak to your helper. It's normal for children to cry, to be unhappy whent they don't get their own way etc. I find that many helpers take the easy way out, which is to give in to the children they are looking after simply to get through the day a little easier! I can understand it but as a parent we need to make sure this happens as little as possible or we will indeed have bratty kids. If she says no, then it's no.

I think it is very important, particularly for boys, to learn how to express themselves and to be allowed to express themselves. (girls tend to be better at this naturally.) It is ok to be sad/angry/upset etc. When my boys cry because they haven't gotten their own way I always say things to them like 'i know you are sad/angry but you're not allowed to take other kids toys without asking (for example).' In our house you will also hear me say that I am sad/cross etc when they do something I don't like. Giving them a release and a verbal way to express their frustration really helps as they get older. Since we started doing this at home my 3 year old is like another child. He doesn't need to throw himself on the ground any more as it's far easier to just tell me he's angry. My 20 month old responds very well to this too.

He also hates it if i'm sad so all i have to say is 'i'm sad that you are doing that' and look like i'm going to cry and he immediately stops, says sorry mummy and comes to comfort me.

Hopefully it will mean we raise boys capable of empathy that are aware their actions impact others around them.

Hearing about your childhood brought a memory of my own home. My mother was quite moody and prone to yelling. I distinctly remember that in my whole childhood she only ever apologised to me once for yelling or taking things out on me. It's normal for all of us to lose our tempers from time to time but i think it is really important that we are able to apologise to our children when we do. I often do this and even do it for my husband (daddy is sorry, he didn't mean to get angry). At least then our children will grow up knowing it's ok to make mistakes, lose our temper etc as long as you apologise for them when necessary.

Ahh parenting, such fun!
 
Hi all, I just wanted say thanks for all of the good advice and post an update on this topic. I spoke with my helper along the lines suggested. My helper has taken my comments on board and I think that, as a result, my son is actually whinging less. I think my helper was worried that I would be mad at her if she ever let my toddler cry. She now understands that I think some crying is normal when they don't get their own way and it is not the end of the world. My husband is still a complete softie with our toddler but maybe his gentle personality is one of the reasons I married him!!
 
aussiegal said:
Absolutely.

I find that many helpers take the easy way out, which is to give in to the children they are looking after simply to get through the day a little easier! I can understand it but as a parent we need to make sure this happens as little as possible or we will indeed have bratty kids.
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Totally agree. I have a helper who is not afraid of telling my kids no and disciplining them. I see that as one of the THE most important traits in a helper with young kids. I also put in my support verbally, when I see her is disciplining them, even when the kids are upset. It helps the helper to know that I think they are doing the right thing, and also sends the message to the kids that mommy's not going to bail them out if they are out of line. And I think that helps give the helper more authority when i'm not around the house.
 
I agree that the key is empowering and supporting your helper to provide the appropriate degree of "discipline" to your children. The hard thing about being a parent is deciding what the appropriate degree is! Personally I think one of the biggest challenges is finding the right balance so that you don't completely squash your children's individuality but also don't raise little emperors/divas.
 
our son is 28 months old and still doesnt sit. he eats standing he poos standing everything is standing and running. Our new helper also is a bit soft with him so we have told her that she needs to be bit strict with him and not let him run all over her.

We do my gym and all instructors cannot get our son to sit for circle time it just doesnt interest him. I try my best to bring him back to circle time but he still runs away and does the slide, climbing. He loves the puppet time and he will sit or rather stand still for that.

Talking with experience u can easily spoil a child. But as other ladies have mentioned u pick your battles. Atleast one caregiver should be strict .

Best of luck
 
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