Breastfeeding Questions

fennho

fennho

Registered User
i hv been giving my gal TBF since birth via direct latch (she's now 3months). Everything was fine, until today, all of a sudden, she was fussing a lot at my breasts in the morning. But at least she was still drinking, then for her next feed in the afternoon, she fussed even more and even cried. When i unlatch her, and sit her up, she was fine. Put her to sleep and she slept all the way till her next feed! (that means, she missed one feeding session, so i pumped out my milk) . All in all, it was a total of 6hours interval! I know it's not anything in my diet, cos i ate the usual things that i ate....and for the few feeds later, she was slightly better altho she seems to be STILL pretty distracted.. i tried moving her into a quiet room thinking she might be distracted, but she fussed even louder and cried louder.

1) Is this what they call a nursing strike? If a nursing really does happen, and baby jus refuses to drink, what should we do?

2) I recently read a few breastfeeding books (ie The Nursing Mother's Companion by Kathleen Huggins and The Baby Book by The Sears) and they mention that for babies btw 2-6months, its VITAL to feed AT LEAST SEVEN times a day. Counting back, i realised i only feed my baby 6 times a day, including the midnight feed...is this why at every feed, my baby feed for almost 1hour long?

3) Now that my baby gal has "found" her hands and happily putting it into her mouth, i can no longer know when she is hungry exactly, i know i shouldnt be looking and relying at the clock for BF, but that's all i know. I really dont wish to be reliant on a fixed schedule but i REALLY am at a loss on when to feed her cos i STILL cant differentiate her hunger cries, exhaustion cries etc. So i have to rely on looking at her last feed and if 3 hours has passed (she's usually on a 3hr interval). It's so pathetic, i know, and seems to me, a lot of kind people out there kept telling me to rely on my maternal instincts and i feel even worse cos i STILL dont know! Does that mean, my maternal instincts gone missing?? Someone suggested placing baby to my chest and stroking her cheeks, and if she does the rooting act, then she's hungry..i tried that but she doesnt root at all, ALL day, it cant be she's not hungry all day, rite? Then, sometimes she'll root all the time even AFTER i've just unlatch her after a 1hour plus marathon feed!!

4) I've also read BF books that we should offer the 2nd breast to the baby. Erm...WHEN exactly shud we do that? It's so contradicting and confusing, becos some told us, we should not dictate how long the baby shud stay at the 1st breast, ie we shud not do the 15mins left, and 15mins right. BUT if baby has stayed at 1st breast for say, 45mins, shud we still offer the 2nd breast? Becos i have no idea how much milk the baby has taken from the 1st breast, i'm unsure if i shud still offer the 2nd breast. As some of u may know in my previous thread, my baby loves "hanging out" at my breasts for everything, food, comfort suck, sleep, so if i offer 2nd breast, she WILL still take it, only to vomit out the excess after that! Which leads me to think if it's really true about BF babies being smart enough to STOP when they have enough, cos my baby certainly dont seem to do so! :(

Sorry for the long posting (again!) but i would be grateful for any advices!!! :) :thanks
 
Hi, I'm having a similiar problem. Bubs is 4 months in a couple of days and has been fussing for the past month or so and I mean REALLY fussing -- hysterical crying, not wanting to feed for more than 5 mins. Pulling away, trashing arms and legs -- even when he's clearly hungry.

It's been hard but I've learnt to deal with it with a bit of patience and just following his cues. I've stopped nursing when he's had enough/gets hysterical and he seems to go fine until the next feed. He's definitely not starving as he has his usual delectable (ahem) nappies and continues to sleep from 9pm - 7am

It is still worrying though because a new pattern is emerging; he doesn't seem to want to feed for long at one feed and then at the next because my breasts havent been emptied he cries because of the increased milk flow.

Then again, all of this could be related to teething -- which has started early - poor sweetie!

I wouldn't worry too much about your baby and the number of feeds he's having as long as he's got the usual nappies and remember that good piece of advice -- we may read all the books out there, but baby hasn't!

Anyway, I'd also appreciate any help on this issue -- they seem similar enough!

Take Care and Good Luck!
 
1, I don't think this is a nursing stike because I htink nursing strikes last longer, not just one feed. I think with a nursing strike you are just supposed to keep trying and eventually they will eat,and usually they are older babies, but I haven't dealt with this myself so I don't know for sure

2. MOst babies who BF prior to eating solids foods are still going to eat really frequently as it is their only source of food. The rare baby if you have lots of milk and a really efficient nurser will feed 6 timres/day but most don't, the only way to know is to look at weight gain, if your baby is a healthy weight gain and feeds less frequently then don't worry, if your baby is not gaining enough weight then rpobably best to see a lacation specialist to see just what is going on.

3. what i did when not sure if baby was hungry, was to just try feeding him, if hungry or needing comfort he would take the breast, if it was some other reason, he wouldn't. he BF about every 2 hours when he was awake until he was 1 year old. He was really fat! My second baby fed a lot less frequently, they are all different You won't always know what is wrong, it doesn't mean you are a bad mother. You've onkly known your baby for 3 months. I think here it really comes down to how baby is growing, a healthy baby with normal weight gain will feed when they want to. although this is rare and extreme it is possible for baby's to stop cueing for feeds if they are constantly hungry and not fed enough, they learn that even when they are hungry they are not fed enough and they stop showing the feedign cues, for example a mom who doesn't realize she doesn['t have enough milk, so if your baby is growing, then you ARE meeting his needs and picking up on his cues, even if you are worrying that you aren't.

Offering the second breast, they way I look at it is that you should OFFER the second breast, but let baby decide is he wants it, I would let baby feed as long as he wants on the first (within reason, if a long time has gone by and you feel you are being used as a pacifier it is okay to tkae him off) if you are not sure if he is done drinking you can do breast compression. Jack newmans site talks about how to do this. that way you can see if baby is still drinking or just hanging out. then offer the second side, baby may take it, may not. think of it as supper, then dessert. I found that mine usually took little to none of the second side for most of the morning , as the day went on they would take the second side.
 
Not sure if you should get all stressed out because your baby drinks 6 times a day, instead of 7. From the time my gal was 2.5 months old, she started feeding 5 times a day (exclusively breastfed). She has healthy weight gain and is happy. All i'm saying is stop worrying about numbers.
 
i have successfully breastfed two children. my youngest is now 14 months. she was exclusively bf until 6 months.

1) you cannot force a baby to feed. they will feed as and when they are hungry.

2) a baby's stomach is not very big. i highly doubt that if you are feeding for an hour, your baby is drinking that entire time. a lot of it will be comfort sucking.

3) if the baby is healthy and putting on weight, RELAX!

4) if the baby is soiling/wetting a good number of diapers in a day, RELAX!

5) it is quite common for baby's to go through cycles of eating everything in sight and then taking a day or two break (of course still eating/drinking some)

6) if you are feeding 7 times per day for one hour each time, you are crazy. that's 7 hours feeding in a day! that's almost 1/3 of the day you spend bf.

when my youngest was born she was in the bottom 2%, she hit 50% by 8 weeks! i breastfed on demand. i didn't watch a clock, when she screamed i checked the nappy first and changed it. i checked to see if she was too hot/cold. THEN i fed her. that way all of the other possibilities were taken care of BEFORE i fed. i knew she was screaming because she was hungry. i fed for no more than 20 minutes per breast. i had a very fast flow and at around 20 minutes, i could tell it was comfort sucking. so then i offered the second breast. sometimes she wanted it, sometimes not. NEVER did i feed for an hour. my girl is now in the 95%! i NEVER counted how many times in a day i fed her as some days she fed more often than others.

really, i think you are getting so caught up in the little things, you are missing the big picture. stop taking "what the books say" as gospel truth.

as sarah from LLL has said in the past. the books give an average, that's it. not all babies are average.

relax and good luck! i think that if you stopped worrying/reading books for a little while the mothering instincts you insist are not there will shine through!

you are a great mother, you are concerned about your child's well being. i understand that. we all have the same concerns, even now that mine are 14 months and 3 yrs. you always want to do what is best for your baby. what is best for your baby is to have a relaxed and (as much as humanly possible) worry free mother able to spend relaxing and enjoyable time with the baby, not worrying if you fed 100 mls instead of 110 mls.

(please don't take offense to what i've said. i just worry about you. you worry so much, you really do seem to be missing the good stuff. you aren't giving your instincts any credit. and by the photo you posted of your little one, i do think that she is not starving! she's got great cheeks!LOL! i just want to give them a little kiss and the lightest of pinches!)
 
carang said:
(please don't take offense to what i've said. i just worry about you. you worry so much, you really do seem to be missing the good stuff. you aren't giving your instincts any credit. and by the photo you posted of your little one, i do think that she is not starving! she's got great cheeks!LOL! i just want to give them a little kiss and the lightest of pinches!)
Click to expand...

Carang, just wanted to say from a perpetual stranger's point of view you are an absolute darling on this site! Lots of helpful tips and the like -- thanks!

-Nash
 
Just wanna say thanks too, carang. I love your thoughts and advice. As a total newbie where motherhood is concerned, I find it reassuring and down-to-earth (not just referring to what you posted in this thread but others as well).
BiG HuGzzz to you!!!
 
thanks for the support folks! i know that sometimes the feelings behind the written word don't come across properly, so I always worry that i'm going to cause offence (or is it -se?)

good luck all! motherhood is the MOST difficult job in the world but also the MOST rewarding!
 
hi all

thanks for all your comments and advices. I know i shud relax, sigh, but it's hard when i seem to be clueless in a lot of things! For eg, Carang, you mentioned "i knew she was screaming because she was hungry". I dont seem to know if mine is screaming due to hunger or not... :(

Yes, she is not drinking actively thru out the entire hour i fed her. But becos she loves comfort sucking, sometimes when i "guess" tat she's hungry and put her to my breast, 5-10mins of active sucking and then she will promptly fall asleep, not the kind of deep sleep that can let me put her down, but light sleep, while nibbling at my breast. Then after some 10mins of nibbling, jus when i tot i shud pull her off, she starts doing some active drinking again, so off and on, this will last for close to an hour. It's CRAZY, i know!

I have always been feeding her only one breast per feeding. I think this stems from my insecurity of "saving" one full breast for the next feeding so she can have enough.

No offense taken, carang. In fact, gratitude for the endless patience and advices u've given. :) And thanks for the compliments for my gal. I jus worry about not being able to BF her till she's at least 12months. Worry about supply, worry that she'll go on hunger strike cos she's not taking the bottle, so if my supply drops drastically, she wont even drink, and yes, worry about my own life cos i'm breastfeeding her for so long, i'm perpetually tied to her 24/7 (contradicting isnt it, i want the best for her, yet i feel i'm losing my own self)
 
did you notice that i said i knew she was screaming from hunger AFTER i had changed her nappy, checked to see if she was too hot or too cold and THEN i knew?

every woman has insecurities about whether or not they are a "good" mother, you are no different from the rest of us.

breastfeeding is not like buying vegetables. with supply and demand. it is more demand and supply. if the baby demands it, your body will supply it. it might take a couple of days, but your body is amazing in that it recognises what your baby needs and will supply it. so, you don't need to worry about "saving" the milk in your other breast...

as for the comfort sucking... i could NOT handle a baby at the breast for hours every day, even though i LOVED bf! my girl was a big comfort sucker and still is 14 months down the road. i never thought i would use a pacifier, but it has been a COMPLETE LIFE SAVER. now your baby is old enough that you shouldn't feel guilty for trying to offer one to her. if she takes it, great! (i always worried that my girl was so dependent on it, you would see her with it when she was 4 years old...well, she still uses it, but often refuses it too, thank good ness!)

also, for the nibbling/comfort sucking or falling asleep while at the breast (or even bottle) if you try to take the breast/bottle away, you will find that the baby will start sucking again quickly and hold on to you tighter. this is what i used to do.

i also would just say... "ok, that's just comfort sucking, you've had enough." and i would remove the breast and offer the pacifier. usually, she didn't even notice the difference.
 
hi carang
today was hell, she has been cranky since afternoon and has been crying like she is in pain.

Sidetracked a bit here...i noticed a small whitish colour thing ON her gums. I dont think it's teething, cos it's OUTSIDE the gum, not sprouting inside the gum, so i have no idea wat it is. My mom says it's "malt teeth" in chinese and its supp to be painful and it'll "blow up" in a few days time, something like an ulcer, but i have no idea wat it is. Anyone knows?

Back to the BF, yes, i noticed when i tried pulling it away, she'll hang on tighter and suck harder. But the vicious cycle repeats. I know the demand and supply idea, but i was saving the other breast more on having a full breast for her to "start" on her next feeding, cos as i understand, our breasts are never truly empty, if she latches, there'll be milk BUT the flow will be slow, sigh...unfortunately i have a very impatient feeder so....by giving her a near empty breast, she will be edgy and fussed at my breast more. :(

As for pacifiers, i avoided using it in the early weeks, as in bottles as well, to avoid nipple confusion, when i was still establishing my milk supply. I tot i could give it to her next time in the future. Who knows, now she rejects everything plastic!!! We've tried everything, giving it to her when she cries, when she's calm. halfway there, in a sleepy state, u name it, we tried it! I soooo want to give my breast a break, but now, at night, she ALWAYS need to suck on my breast before going to sleep! When i remove my breast and stick in pacifier, she will open her eyes wide-wide and starts to whimper, shake her head left and right and if i continue to coax her to take the pacifier, the whimper will become a full blown cry!

U see me asking questions here and worrying cos frankly i'm really really tired and wondering if there are ANY ways i can reduce her reliant on me. I love her to bits, but i hope i wont be stoned here by saying, i need some of my life back. She doesnt take bottles as well, so the tot of expressing out and letting my DH do some feeding (who is truly supportive and willing to help) while i sneak out for some "me" time or getting some sleep is out of the question.

I kept telling myself she WILL grow out of it, and well, that's the only consolation i have right now.
 
oh yes, i was told sucking on a pacifier and on our nipples requires a diff "set of skills" ie different mechanism. So, dats why babies can tell the diff...whenever i stick the pacifier into her, she doesnt seem to know how to suck it (or is it DONT want to) so i dunno if she's too smart to notice the difference and rejects it or too slow in knowing HOW to suck a pacifier *LOL*
 
neither of my children had any problems differentiating between sucking on a bottle/pacifier and sucking at the breast.

i have heard of nipple confusion, but i really question the idea as i believe humans are pretty smart creatures and the survival instinct is fairly strong. i think that a baby can figure out how to get the milk it needs...but that is just my opinion.
 
my son rejected the pacifier too, i think he figured there was no milk so there wasn't any point.

we introduced the pacifier to my girl on her 1st day at home.
 
carang said:
I have heard of nipple confusion, but i really question the idea as i believe humans are pretty smart creatures and the survival instinct is fairly strong. i think that a baby can figure out how to get the milk it needs...but that is just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Dear Cara,

I don?t want to criticize you but a sample size of two is not very many. I?ve come across hundreds of babies who have had problems breastfeeding after getting used to drinking from bottles.

Babies learn to suck, drink and coordinate all their muscles and at the same time breathe correctly by practice. Getting milk is the reward the baby has for practicing. So when the baby gets milk, even just a few drops of colostrum, he assumes that he is feeding correctly and continues to suck in that way. If the baby doesn?t get milk he stops practicing and either goes to sleep or cries in frustration.

Before the baby knows exactly how to suck care is needed so that nothing interferes with his learning. This is why we suggest not giving bottles and pacifiers for the first few weeks. Once the baby is confident, however, introducing bottles and pacifies usually doesn?t cause problems.

Nipple confusion is when a baby hasn?t learnt the correct sucking, drinking and breathing technique to draw the milk from the breast into his mouth. If has been estimated that 95% of newborns will encounter nipple confusion to some extent if given bottles in the first three weeks of life.

This doesn?t mean that bottles and pacifiers should never be used but it often prevents problems if you introduce then after four to six weeks.

Best wishes,
SARAH
 
fennho-- about the whitish thing on her gums, look inside her mouth and on her tongue to see if you see more of the white patches. It could be thrush, which is a yeast infection, and babies are in pain when that happens (which could be why your little one is not breastfeeding and is crying so much). You might also check your nipple/areola area if there are any white patches on there also. It may also appear on your baby's genital area.

I'm thinking maybe your baby is having a growth spurt so she is crying, fussy, and doesn't want to feed??

It is recommended to feed on one breast for as long as baby wants. Offer the second breast, but if baby is not interested, then that is fine also. The reason for feeding longer on one breast is so your baby gets your hind milk, which if higher in fat to help your baby grow. The foremilk (the milk at the beginning of a feeding and is watery) is mostly water to satisfy your baby's thirst quickly.

And you are correct. Bottlefeeding and breastfeeding requires a different sucking mechanism for baby. When on the breast, baby needs to use the tongue and jaw to suck to get milk. If baby is full, she will just stop moving her tongue and jaw and can therefore control how much she wants to drink. When on the bottle, gravity just takes place and milk will drip out as long as you turn the bottle upside down. Baby does not need to work as hard but only needs to make sure she swallows on time (sometimes baby cannot swallow in time and chokes). Bottle fed babies also tend to be overfed because they cannot stop even though they had enough. (The sucking mechanism on the breast has been shown to help with baby's oral development).

I hope you and your baby resolves this soon. But you are doing a good job and you have already done the first step in asking for help and suggestions. Good luck to you and your little one.
 
hi sarah, i realise that my sample group is fairly small. but i do think that many babies are just fine figuring out how to feed.maybe i was just very lucky, after my first night of trying it just came very naturally to me. i do realise that many women do have terrible problems where bf is concerned. i also think that many are so scared of "doing it wrong"
that they get so stressed out they forget to follow their instincts.
 
Some women are lucky, and have babies that seem to know what to do no matter what.

Unfortunatley I did everything right, but still had a baby that couldn't figure it out.
It got to the point that he was practically starving and feeding with a cup or eye dropper still didn't encourage him to latch on.

I had a lactation consultant by my side for 6 weeks and it still didn't happen, once he was given that bottle, he never looked back.

You have to remember that babies in developing countries die within the first month because of breastfeeding problems, so it not just mum's who are worried about 'doing it wrong'.
 
Thrush

Dear Fennho,

If you are worried about Thrush there is an article in Close to the Heart, our newsletter for mothers in Asia, on our web site at http://www.lllhk.org/Publications.html

It is in the Early Year 2007 - Vol.8 No. 1 issue on page 10. (This is page 12 in the pdf file.) This article will explain the symptoms and the treatments.

Best wishes,
SARAH
 
Fenho,

It sounds like you are really really flustered and at your wits end... This sounds like an obvious idea, but have you considered having a professional lactation consultant come to your house to witness the way you are doing things and give you some face to face advice "on the scene"? You emails are long and tend to get confusing the more aggravated you are (plus it is difficult enough just explaining some of these issues to other people over text), and it seems like the most obvious way to give you assurance and to help your baby is to let invite a professional to your home to see what's going on in person and give you in-person advice, maybe help you with technique, etc.

LLL is fantastic at that kind of thing and I know the Annerley offers post-natal services where they can send lactation specialists to your home, no matter where you live in HK SAR. Of course it's at a cost, but it seems it would be one very worthwhile investment in so many ways.

Just a thought, but sorry to state the obvious if you're already done this or are doing it.
 
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