BCG vaccine, yes or no?

T

titti

New member
Hi,
I am looking for some advice on BCG vaccine. My husband and I have just moved to HK from USA with our 2 years old son. We are debating if it is better to vaccinate our little one or not. We may or may not move back to the States. Has someone done some research on this matter?
Thank you
Titti
 
TB is widely suffered in HK and in china. there is NO WAY that i would live in this part of asia and not vaccinate my kids.
 
My children are fully vaxed but we didn't get BCG (so they're not 100% vaxed by HK standards but they are by US/European standards). They were born in the States and we came here when my oldest was just over 4 and the twins were 20 months. Even here, they told me it wouldn't be much use for my oldest (the vax is modest protective anyway), however they did recommend it for the twins, but it was my decision. I spoke to my (famous) pediatrician in the States and he referred me to a good friend who lived in HK for a long time (HK native) and she said she wouldn't unless I would live in a super dense part of HK where TB would be more prevalent, but even then ...
 
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sorry, but ALL of hk is super dense. a part of hk where TB would be more prevalent? what does that mean? that someone on the peak is immune?
 
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I would speak with your US and HK pediatricians and get BOTH their views on the pros and cons, as it is not a standard vaccination in the US. If your child does have the TB vaccine and you do move back to the US, your child will have a positive result on any TB skin test he/she takes, which are required for a large number of jobs in the US, including all jobs relating to food and healthcare. As the skin test will be positive because of antibodies from the vaccine, some states will require a chest x-ray before clearing him/her to work. Its not a huge deal, but is an additional factor to consider. I know US parents here who have and have not chosen to have their children TB vaccinated.
 
MommyTo3 said:
I spoke to my (famous) pediatrician in the States and he referred me to a good friend who lived in HK for a long time (HK native) and she said she wouldn't unless I would live in a super dense part of HK where TB would be more prevalent, but even then ...
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This has to be one of the stupidest things I've heard since the MMR frauds.
TB does not know boundaries, it travels freely between countries and neighborhoods.
Unless you are willing to keep your child in a bubble, your child has a fair chance of exposure to TB when living in Asia, *all* of Asia.

Dont let your child become part of a statistic:
http://www.chp.gov.hk/en/data/4/10/26/43/458.html

elle said:
I would speak with your US and HK pediatricians and get BOTH their views on the pros and cons, as it is not a standard vaccination in the US.
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I'm from Zimbabwe, its not a standard vaccination in Zimbabwe therefore I should check with my Zimbabwean doctor.
She is from Kiribati, its not a standard vaccination in Kiribati therefore she should check with her Kiribatian doctor.
Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?
TB is prevalent in this part of the world, it makes no difference how prevalent it is on the other side of the world as we all happen to live *here*.

If your child does have the TB vaccine and you do move back to the US, your child will have a positive result on any TB skin test he/she takes...some states will require a chest x-ray before clearing him/her to work. Its not a huge deal, but is an additional factor to consider.
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Choice 1 : possible death from TB, here, where I live today
Choice 2 : possible chest xray due to false positive test somewhere else where I might live in the future
I know what I would choose for myself and my kids.

I know US parents here who have and have not chosen to have their children TB vaccinated.
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They must be taking advice from friends of famous doctors who believe TB doesnt know how to travel between neighborhoods.
*boggle* *sheesh*
 
HC, acutally, our pediatrican (local doctor here in HK) did tell us that the probability of TB transmission from one person to another depends on several factors, including the amount of infectious material expelled by a carrier (who must have active TB to be contagous), the proximity of the carrier to another person, the effectiveness of ventilation in the area, the duration of exposure, the health of the potentially exposed person and the virulence of the TB strain. He also told us that living in a less densly populated area of HK DOES decrease the liklihood of coming into close contact with an active carrier of the disease and thus decreases liklihood of infection. This is why I suggest that the mother should speak with her own doctors, to weigh the risks and benefits of getting/ not getting the vaccine as there really are factors that can be considered.
 
I think when people are talking about densely populated areas they are not talking about geographical areas but rather about the very poor who are crammed into small flats and cage homes, TB and similar diseases have always been more prevalent where there is poverty for obvious reasons.

That being said, TB does exist in Asia and it's not a risk I'd take with my child when the disadvantages are so minimal. I probably wouldn't rely on a non HK based doctor for advice as there is absolutely no reason why they should be well informed on the risks of diseases in other areas of the world unless they are a recognised specialist.
 
elle said:
HC, acutally, our pediatrican (local doctor here in HK) did tell us that the probability of TB transmission from one person to another depends on several factors, including the amount of infectious material expelled by a carrier (who must have active TB to be contagous), the proximity of the carrier to another person, the effectiveness of ventilation in the area, the duration of exposure, the health of the potentially exposed person and the virulence of the TB strain. He also told us that living in a less densly populated area of HK DOES decrease the liklihood of coming into close contact with an active carrier of the disease and thus decreases liklihood of infection. This is why I suggest that the mother should speak with her own doctors, to weigh the risks and benefits of getting/ not getting the vaccine as there really are factors that can be considered.
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All correct and no disagreement with any of the points you have made there. Your pediatrician gave you factual informtaion. I wonder, did this doctor actually tell you what s/he recommended? What did doctor do with his/her kids?

Consider this : Busses, Minibusses, School Busses, trams, visit Ocean Park, visit Disney, go to School, go to Computer store, go to friends house, kiss a friend, lick a friend, lick some toys, lick the dog....

This is a disease that kills. Its not worth taking chances with it for the sake of convenience, saving a bit of money, saving a bit of pain or saving false-positive hassles if/when someone goes back to USA.

Its a proven vaccine thats been available for decades with very minor drawbacks and issues.

The choice should be obvious.

PS: I've never licked a dog but I cant say the same for all of my kids.
 
howardcoombs said:
All correct and no disagreement with any of the points you have made there. Your pediatrician gave you factual informtaion. I wonder, did this doctor actually tell you what s/he recommended? What did doctor do with his/her kids?

Consider this : Busses, Minibusses, School Busses, trams, visit Ocean Park, visit Disney, go to School, go to Computer store, go to friends house, kiss a friend, lick a friend, lick some toys, lick the dog....
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Doctor recommended not getting it if we were returning to the US within 12 months and kid would not be using public transport and we would continue to live in the part of HK we live in. In fact, doctor intervened at hospital and kept the staff doctor from giving it to kid at birth. (BTW I'm not saying that our child does not have the vaccine, just that our doctor here did give us a full list of pros and cons and gave us as parents a choice)
 
HC - to be fair TB can be treated. It's not as if parents are signing up their kids for death row. It's an informed decision. Almost all diseases can kill if not treated in time and correctly.

And before you start screaming at me - am not against BCG vaccination :)
 
I'm glad to hear you chose to vaccinate.

I would strongly question the ethics and mental-health of a doctor who would recommend a kid be left without vaccination for 12 months in an environment known to have a specific deadly disease.
 
miran said:
HC - to be fair TB can be treated. It's not as if parents are signing up their kids for death row. It's an informed decision. Almost all diseases can kill if not treated in time and correctly.
And before you start screaming at me - am not against BCG vaccination :)
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Me, scream, never. Would I do such a thing :-)

Ofcourse it can be treated, but why take the chance when the consequences can be so deadly, the side effect practically none and the disease so prevalent in Asia.

I take a lot of calculated risks with myself as well as my family; on health related matters such as vaccinations, I just wouldnt.
 
restaurants, lifts/elevators, shopping centres, cinemas, hotels (anyone remember SARS?)...

i live out in the country park, you can't get less densely populated than that in hk.... there is no way i wouldn't get my kids vaccinated, even though i'm originally from canada, where it isn't amongst the vaccs that we get/give....i don't live in canada. i live here. we travel here and to china, vietnam, thailand, philippines, malaysia etc....
 
My daughter was born here, so had it at birth. My son was given it at aged 4 when we moved here. I took him to a paediatrician who did the skin test to see if he was already immune, before giving the vaccine (he wasn't). It's not something i would ever risk.

Both my grandparents contracted it in Ireland when my dad was a child (50 years ago) and they spent over a year in the hospital getting treated. During that time my dad and his brothers and sisters were sent to a childrens home to be looked after by nuns. My grandfather had to have a lung removed so spent most of his adult life with just one lung.
 
IMHO - It's cultural. For the longest time richer countries have beleived they are immune from "those" things. Lot of people still do - look at the state of US / Europe economies and look at what their news coverage is.

I am for BCG vacs too. why only BCG... we are from India. We go to India once a year for 20 - 25 days. We drink safe water and we hardly get time to go for a swim. My son still got his Hep A and Typhoid vacs.

You and I are reacting with disbeleif because we "know" or have seen people from any walk of life get such diseases. We have also "known" or seen the impact such diseases can have. We find it hard to fanthom that someone could have access to such vaccinations, could afford them and still wouldnt take them because they think that risk is low.

5 - 10% US population has TB (either as carrier or in active stage) - this is from Wiki so please dont kill me on this. If I read that and I were in US, I would still get BCG.

HC - all I am saying is I hear you and I am with you. But when you come out so strongly at someone it just gets discounted as hysteria. And do cut those parents some slack - they are really not killing their kids :)
 
TB is definitely not to be taken lightly and it may not be just a simple case of taking a course of medication for 6-12 months to cure it.

I contracted TB myself as a 7/8year old whilst visiting Hong Kong on a 2 week holiday back in the 1980's (granted TB was more prevalent back then). I did not present any of the classic symptoms of TB at all upon my return to the UK, then a few months later I had a swollen itchy finger - the TB had spread to my finger bone/joint. To cut a long story short, I had 2 surgeries on my finger and ended up having a piece of bone removed (at one point, the doctors even considered amputating the whole finger). I was in and out of hospital for well over 6 months.
 
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