Baby going to bed late

Michelle KH

Registered User
My son is 4 month old now. Although he does sleep though the night (from around 11ish to around 7ish), he doesn't sleep until late each day.

He usually naps about 2-3 hours in total in the morning and afternoon, but then he doesn't go to sleep until 11ish each day. After his feed at around 8pm, he goes for his nap but only for half hour or so. I have tried putting him in the dark room and half swaddle, but it doesn't work either. He just keep waking up after 30 minutes or so.

I am just worried that he is not getting enough sleep, but then he doesn't seem to be overtired in the morning or afternoon. He does however seem quite cranky in the evening around 10, but he just doesn't want to go to sleep before 11.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Michelle
 

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Your baby is very cute !

I have two suggestions:

1. to bring a late bedtime forward, move it forward by 15mins/half an hour until it is where you want it to be. That allows for a gradual reset of the body clock.
2. Routine routine routine - always use the same bedtime routine. Ours is dinner (6pm), bath, milk, teeth, story, cuddles, bed (7pm). Once in bed we allow comforting, but our daughter is not allowed up (ie out of her room) after this time. Our daughter knows what to expect and seems to look forward to it.

The so called experts say that a baby at 4 months needs around 14-15 hours sleep per day. So the 10-11 hours that you're currently getting doesn't sound like quite enough. Now, your baby might just need less than that, but you'll probably find that when you move the bedtime forward, she'll be getting enough sleep.

Also, some babies are night owls, and some morning babies. Because your baby is waking up at 7am, I would hazard a non-expert guess that you have a morning baby that is just used to going to bed late.


Is there something that wakes your baby up after 8pm? Is there a noisy TV? Does bub hear you going about your business in the rest of the house and doesn't want to miss out on anything until you go to bed? You could try blocking your general household noise out with some 'white noise' in baby's bedroom. For example, a running aircon, a radio tuned in between stations, etc.

Good luck !
 
Dear Michelle,

Do you want your baby to sleep earlier because you believe that babies should go to bed before 11 pm or because it isn?t suiting your family lifestyle?

If it is because the society is telling you that babies sleep earlier don?t worry. It is fine for babies to sleep late. In fact with so many parents working outside the home it may even be desirable for a baby to sleep late and so get more wakeful hours with his parents.

If it is because such a later night doesn?t suit your family lifestyle then it is worth tiring to change your baby?s bedtime. The way that I managed to get me baby to sleep earlier was to put forward the whole bedtime routine. We had a routine of the baby having a bath, having a play (this included stories as they got older) and then having milk to go to sleep. When I wanted him to go to bed earlier I?d slowly move the whole routine earlier. Just by ten minutes for the first few days and then by another ten minutes. It took me over a month but I managed to move his whole bedtime routine forward by an hour and a half.

One thing to remember is that moving the bedtime earlier won?t result in the baby sleeping longer. He will just get up earlier in the morning. You have to decide whether it is better to have a baby who sleeps from 11 pm to 7 am or from 9 pm to 5 am. The other thing to remember is that babies are constantly changing. Just because your baby sleeps at this time at four months doesn?t mean that he will still be doing so at eight months.

Best wishes,
Barb
 
I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with barbwong on one point. I don't agree that babies who go to bed earlier wake earlier. Once they've settled into a routine, they generally wake at the same time.

There is a lot of literature on this point, but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is "Healthy sleep habits, healthy child" by Mark Weisbluth. I don't agree with his teach your child to sleep advice, but he has some really interesting information on sleep cycles, etc.

Having said that, every baby is an individual and one baby could wake up earlier. In my experience I have just found that, within reason, an earlier bedtime doesn't affect the wake up time.
 
Here is an article by Elizabeth Pantley of the No Cry Sleep Solution fame:

http://www.earlychildhoodlinks.com/parents/articles/earlybedtime.htm

which discusses early bedtimes. She agrees that early bed doesn't mean early to rise, and in fact encourages better sleep.

There are also lots of references on the web to how much sleep a baby needs, such as:

http://www.babycenter.com/general/7645.html

They all say around 14-15 hours for a 4 month old. It just doesn't sound like your baby is getting enough sleep. Goodluck moving bedtime !
 
Thanks for all your advice. I will try moving his bed time a bit eariler. Actually, I don't mind that he goes to bed late, but I am just worried that he is not getting enough sleep, as some expert say that babies should not go to bed later than 11pm. It seems that since I have posted this thread, he has been waking up later in the morning, around 9ish so I guess he is only 1 or 2 hours short of the "14-15" hours sleep he needed. However, he still does not go to sleep before 11pm.

Michelle
 
Sleep is a biological function but the way it is managed is very cultural. Just about all the books on sleep are written by English-speaking westerners. And so portray the English-peaking western culture. This culture believes that babies do best with one long sleep taken alone. Naps are allowed while the babies are still young but are to be eliminated as soon as possible. What the books, Elizabeth Pantley included, do not tell you is that there are other cultures that have other practices ? and whose babies also grow up healthily too.

If both you and you baby are happy with one long sleep then don?t think of changing it. However, if this lifestyle doesn?t work for either of you then don?t worry about changing it to one that does work ? even if this means that a baby goes to sleep after 11:00 pm, only ever sleeps in blocks of four hours or sleeps best when in contact with another human being.

There are cultures where the adults (and consequently the babies too) don?t sleep for more than four hours at a time, wake up for a couple of hours in the middle of the night, never sleep alone or have long afternoon naps. The babies follow these lifestyles because the adults do ? not because they have a need to.

Personally I found that with my first two children it worked very well for them to stay up late and take two long naps during the day. The only problem came when I had a third baby on the same schedule and my first child started morning school. This meant that I was up late with the baby and up early with my eldest. As this life style no longer suited me I slowly changed the children?s schedule to sleep earlier and wake earlier (and yes my baby did wake earlier ? resulting in roughly the same number of hours sleep in each 24 hour day).

I think it is important to make a distinction between a biological need and cultural behaviour. Then when you want to do something that might be frowned on in your culture you can be reassured that it won?t hurt your baby.

Best wishes,
Barb
 
Barbwong - I had to laugh at your post because we were talking about this exact subject (ie bedtime) at baby playgroup the other day.

Without fail, all the "western" (for want of a better word) babies had bedtimes of between 6 and 8pm. Without fail all of the chinese babies had bedtimes after 9pm. I never knew this. Is this a cultural thing or are we just a strange group? What surprises me is that in the "western" group, we had a huge diversity of cultures - German, English, American, Australian, NZ, Spanish, etc. Yet without fail, all had early bedtimes for their babies.

Two "mixed-race" (again, for want of a better word) families both had later bedtimes as well.

Michelle - I agree with barbwong. As long as your baby is getting enough sleep in a 24 hour period and is happy and healthy, go with whatever works for your family.

For us, 7pm works. It seems to be our daugther's natural bedtime. Put her down earlier (for example if we want to go out!), she won't co-operate. Put her down later (for example if we're late home) and it takes her a long time to go to sleep. My husband and I enjoy some quiet time together after she goes to bed.

I have adjusted my working hours to suit my daughter. I work part-time, so I can spend more time with her. I leave work at 5.30pm no matter how much work I still have left to do - she's more important. Sometimes I feel like I'm always behind and I'm certainly not going to get promoted any time soon, but my family are my no.1 priority and work just doesn't compare. By leaving at 5.30, I'm home in time to give her dinner, bath, story and put her to bed. I love my morning and evening routines with her. Ahhhh bliss.
 
I have found no research to back up this theory so it is just mine (it could be wrong) but I think that weather plays a part in affecting the culture of sleep.

The easiest thing to do with babies when you don?t know what to do is put them to sleep (the same goes for adults too). So in the north of the Northern Hemisphere where the winter nights are long and cold everyone goes to bed early. I have English friends who tell me that as children they had to go to bed early in the winter when it was dark but were allow to stay up much later in the summer when it was still light outside.

In the tropics in the middle of the day when it is too hot to go out everyone has a nap. This practice is also very popular in the Mediterranean. And as a consequence the babies and children go to bed much later because they have slept two to three hours in the afternoon. The full-day local kindergartens (for children aged 3 to 6 years old) in Hong Kong also have a practice of asking the children to sleep from about 1:00 pm to 3:00 pm.

The other huge factor when talking about culture is the colonial past of many countries ? and how much the rulers? culture was taken on board by the locals. And the fact that American culture is taking over the world though the media. To the extent that anthropologists? research is getting biased because they fail to take into account their own cultural bias.
 
hi Michelle,
i just wanted to jump in and say that my baby is also 4 months old and generally goes to bed just before midnight and wakes up at 8 for his morning feed then falls right back to sleep until 2pm. his afternoon schedule varies slightly with no fixed napping times.
last week, when our a/c in the living room was being repaired, the whole family retired to bed early at 10pm and the baby slept until 5am for his early feed which we definitely attributed to the earlier sleep schedule.
we found that he remained a contented baby regardless of when he went to bed, so i think you don't hv much to worry about unless your baby is cranky and seems tired even after 12-13 hours of sleep. but it sounds to me that he's doing just fine! i plan to let my baby dictate his own patterns unless they're totally out of whack and seems to cause him harm (so far, no evidence of anything of the sort).

good luck!
 
We usually put our baby son who is nearly 3 months old to bed at about 10pm, sometimes a little later, sometimes a little earlier, depending on how sleepy he is after his bath and night feed.

We're a mixed couple, I'm British, my wife is HK Chinese. To be honest, we've never even thought about putting him to bed earlier.

I vaguely recall from my own childhood in UK many years ago going to bed at 7 or 8pm, but if we put our baby to bed that early, I'd never get to see him during week days!

I really don't think it matters too much when you put your baby to bed as long as he gets enough sleep each 24 hour period.

Graham
 
Well, I have heard many mums around me put their babies to bed before 9pm and they wake up like 7 am. And the whole family adjusts to this schedule. Even when they bring the baby out, they need to rush back to fit this schedule. and when dad has to work late, they dont get to see their waking baby. and I have heard about some of their baby running away or ignoring their dad.

For me, I live with parents in law and the whole family talk/ watch TV till 12am. And the baby has this schedule since birth. He sleeps when we sleep and wakes up like 11 am.

For me, this schedule works fine for the baby and adults. Baby gets to see his Dad and he always run to him when Dad is back. Baby boy is now 14 mth old. He still has his long hours sleep at night and naps 2 times a day.

For Adults, our night schedule are not shorten and we can bring him out for normal functions and be back late, wash him and sleep him.

I like this schedule cos it is a normal timing and like part of our life.

This is just some of my sharing. I know there are parents out there who dont agree to sleeping the baby late. But as long as baby is getting the right amount of sleep, is happy/ healthy and alert, I am fine with it.

So happy deciding your schedule.
 
that's fine, until the baby has to start going to school, which in HK starts at a ridiculously early age!

i used to teach a little girl whose mother complained that she couldn't wake the 2.5 year old in time for the lessons that started at 10;15am.

i asked her what timethe girl went to sleep at night..."oh, between 12 and 2am!!!!"

i'm sorry, but this is UNHEALTHY for the poor child.
maybe you're family need to admit that there is a child in the house now and adjust their life to that fact.

i'm canadian and hubby is chinese. normally, my son sleeps between 7 and 8 pm at night. he wakes around 6am. if hubby has to work late once in a while, so be it. if it is a regular thing, then maybe he needs to find a more "family friendly" employer.
 
well, i'm chinese, my husband is chinese & my 19 mth old sleeps between 7-8pm and wakes up at 7am. she normally sleeps for 11 hrs at night (wake up once for milk, then goes right back to sleep.) but she only naps for an hour a day. i've come a long way from her waking at night & sleeping during the day at 2 mths to setting this bedtime routine to sleep around sunset. I do read a lot about baby's sleep (all English books). But the main reason why I let my child sleep early is because I think it's good for her, and we get some relax quiet times at night when she's sleeping. We can go out for dinner & no need to worry that she's watching TV at home w/ the maid. Plus we can watch what WE WANT at night & not worry that she's watching it with us (you know, CSI:NY & Desperate Housewives, not exactly child friendly!!)

Chinese medicine also believe that one should sleep before 10.30pm in order for the body to rejenerate before the chi works at the gall & liver at 11pm. Chinese medicine also believes that a young child should bath before sunset & sleeps at around sunset, and wake up around sunrise, because the body clock works synchronizing the sun.

When we were in Vancouver in June, I had problem letting my child sleep at 7pm cos the sun only sets at 10pm. She was so puzzled when it looked like it was 5 pm & i was forcing her to sleep already. Finally I had to give in & let her sleep when the sun sets. That pushes her wake up time to 8am, then she'd nap for 2 hrs during the day, which still makes 12 hrs/day. her body worked this out on her own, I never wake her up, I let her wake up naturally (which is fine with me, but I noticed that although she's sleeping the same amt of hrs each day, she's obviously more tired in the mornings), and she doesn't sleep as well at night. So I figured maybe sleeping at 10pm everyday was not agreeing w/ her body resting.

One more reason for early bedtime is of course, when she starts going to school, she'd have to wake up at 6.30am. I think it'd be easier to push her bedtime later, than to bring it earlier. So I'd figured if she has a good & early bedtime I don't have to struggle with her 2-5 years down the road.

That said, a lot of my friends is AMAZED at how early I put my child to bed. Lucky for me, my husband gets off work early, so he gets to play with her an hour or so before she sleeps. yes, once in a while when he gets off work late & didn't play with her before she sleeps, But he makes an effort to get up earlier the next day to play w/ her to make up. I agree that w/ the majority of HK people working from 8am to 8pm, it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a child who sleeps early if you wanna see her/him often. This HK working hour is a very special case, not many cities in the world have working hrs like this so most books written about child sleep are aimed for regular work hours (i.e. maximum work hrs in the US & UK, what? like 6hrs/day? heh heh)

well, as long as you're happy with your child's sleep habits, everyone is getting enough sleep, and having a healthy life style, you shouldn't kill yourself for letting your child sleep a little later than you would've wanted cos everyone wants to see her/him a little longer. But anything later than 11pm is a little too late.
 
One of the things I love about living in Hong Kong is that it has opened my eyes to other cultures and I don?t just mean Chinese culture but lots of cultures because Hong Kong is a very international city.

Clearly the time we put our babies to sleep is a cultural issue but the last poster brought up another issue I?ve discovered is cultural too. When do you take a bath?

In England I was brought up to bath/shower in the morning. But when I went away to a conference with some Chinese friends they thought me very dirty for not bathing before sleeping. I was always told that washing would freshen and wake you up ? so why would you do it before going to sleep. But my friends told me they felt too dirty to sleep without bathing in the evening.

Now that I live in Hong Kong I understand where they are coming from and usually like to bath in the morning and again in the evening.

Best wishes,
SARAH
 
yep, my hubby says "can't sleep properly" without having a bath. he thinks that he's too "sticky" from all the sweating....i think i agree with him...
 
plus i think it's the weather & the pollution here (that's another post). after going out for just an hour, walking on the streets here, your face is all black (try to get a wet cotton & wipe down your face, u'll know what I mean). So the books say don't bath your baby everyday doesn't work for HK either. In the summer, I bath her once before she naps & once before she sleeps.
 
my son has always had two baths everyday...
one in the morning for a clean up... and one in the evening for fun and bedtime ritual...

he LOVES the water...going to take him swimming later...
 
my son is 13 months old now, he moslty sleep quite late like 11 PM but some time he's sleep about 9 PM. And yes when he was sleep early means he's wake up early as well. Which is sometime I didn't like coz I like get more sleep. But we are OK about it and he's not complaining when we take him out for some late nights.

And about shower/bath. We bath him every night before he went to sleep and in the afternoon mostly we went to the beach (or have paddling pool for himself). He loves water too. Hong Kong in the summer it's so awful, I need about 2 or 3 times a day. everytime I went out just sweating and humidity not nice either. by the time arrived home I was sticky and so warm that i need my cold shower.
 
My husband likes a very hot bath before bedtime. The sheets on his side of the bed are always stained yellowish from sweat!
 
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