accident

M

mintycat

Registered User
We are on vacation in the US with my helper and children, staying at my parents' house. A few days ago, we went out for a walk around the neighborhood and when we came home, the helper took my 13 month old in to wash her hand while my 3 year old stayed with me outside as I folded the strollers. I heard loud cries and later saw my 13 month's old hand all red and swollen. I asked the helper if she used hot water accidentally but she denied it saying she only used cold water. After a few minutes blisters began forming and my baby was inconsolable. Finally we took her to the ER and the doctor said she had a second degree burn (the blister was the size of a 50 cent coin).

All this time, I pretty much ignored her in the ER as I was busy talking to the doctors or trying to console my baby. She acted like nothing serious had happened and walked around the ER reading newspapers (and even jumping around playing with my older one when we were at home and I was trying to calm down my baby). I told her what the doctor said and she said sorry in a half hearted manner.

On the way home, I asked her what really happened and she said she only used cold water. But how could cold water cause second degree burn? She said maybe someone used the sink before and that was why hot water came out of the cold water tap. But she did admit she did not test the water herself before putting my baby's hand under the running tap and that she just grabbed the arm of my baby and her own hand never touched the water. Is that even called handwashing?!

When we got home, I later found out the first thing she said to my mom's helper was she was concerned whether she could still have her holiday the following day! Anyway, I called my husband to tell him the story and he wanted to talk to her. We were both really angry because it seemed she did not understand the gravity of the situation and showed little remorse and just continued playing around. After talking to my husband I saw that she was crying and went down to the basement. When she came back up, she was talking on her mobile outside my room and refused to come in and help me bathe the kids. She has her own room in the basement but I think she deliberately talked outside my room. I even heard her say "one month notice" in english very loudly. When I asked her she did not budge and finally came in reluctantly. Then she said to me that if I was unsatisfied with her, I can release her. Her attitude changed 360 degrees. She refused to look at me when I talked to her. She said my husband did not believe it was an accident and that he blamed her. Well, regardless whether hot water really came out of the cold water tap or if she accidentally turned on the hot water tap, she should first test the water herself and let her own hand run under the water together so if the water turned hot, she can immediately take the baby's hand away. Since her hand never touched the water, my baby began crying and she still continued to wash believing it was cold water and that my baby was only fussing. She could not even distinguish between a fussy cry or a painful cry. Even though I was outside in the garage, I knew the cry was different so I ran in to see what was going on.

That night she refused to eat dinner and refused to talk or look at me. My baby was hurt under her care and here she was throwing a childish tantrum.

So I am wondering if I release her immediately, do I still have to pay her one month even though she caused an injury to my baby? We are in the US now and still have about 4 weeks here. The next morning, her attitude was back to normal as she came up to say bye to be before she went on her holiday. She said sorry for what happened. It was like things were back to normal. Before this happened, we were supposed to go out for dinner so I asked her to come back at 7:30 pm and when she found out we were staying home for dinner (cos I did not feel comfortable leaving the kids home) she asked my mom's helper why she had to come home early then. My mom's helper later told me that my maid thinks something like this is 'natural' and did not know why we had to get so angry and upset about it. WHAT?!

I mean, I cannot accept that she refused to accept responsibility and turned around and got mad at me for telling my husband or at my husband for getting angry at her. (FYI, I know my husband and he never yells. His tone was probably really angry and he grilled and grilled her about what happened.) My mom's maid later told us that my maid said I ignored her at the hospital and that I looked angry and she didn't feel happy that I was ignoring her. My mom's maid said it's normal we were angry because we are parents and that we are concerned about our baby!

There is one year left in her contract.
 
it sounds to me like it was an accident. it could just as easily have been you who forgot to check the water... i must admit that i don't always check it either... (i'm from canada and have burned myself with hot water coming out of the cold water tap. that sometimes happens when you have the large water heaters and single taps.)

HOWEVER, her attitude afterward leaves MUCH to be desired. if it had been me, i would have been worried sick and in tears myself for causing such pain to a little one!
 
ps. i would have been angry at the start, simply because my child was hurt so badly. after possibly accepting her explanation, i would have been IRATE at her lack of care about my child.
 
Yes I admit it was an accident but her attitude after it was the thing that is causing me grief. Also if she was holding my baby's hand instead of the arm, she would've been able to feel the water and pull her hand away. I admit when we first arrived, I accidentally turned the water too hot as I showered my older one but I pulled her away immediately so her skin was just a little bit red afterwards. But this time, even though the baby was crying she continued to run her hand under the tap because she herself didn't feel the water and that was why the burn was so severe.
 
like i said, her attitude is WAY off, especially if she doesn't seem to care at all how the little one is doing... if i had caused someone else's child a trip to the ER, accident or not, i'd be absolutely devastated!
 
Look accidents happen to EVERYONE. The only way to guarantee that nothing every happens to your child is to look after them yourself - then you have no one else to blame when things go wrong. It sounds like either way, it was an accident. No one does things right 100% of the time.

I agree that her post-accident behaviour is not good - but I think it is understandable. She is obviously afraid for her job, and probably very sorry about what has happened.

Your suggestion that you somehow don't need to give her a months notice if you want to hire her is not great, either. If you want to be a responsible employer, you should give her the month's notice (or, I guess, a month's payment in lieu) and a ticket back to HK to pick up her belongings. I think you would also be responsible for her ticket back to her home country (?).

You might want to consider the practicalities before you fire her quickly, given that you do have a substantial amount of time left in the US before you can look for another helper (if this is the way you want to go).
 
Happy V - somehow I knew you would be on the helper's side. Yes I could've looked after the baby myself and washed her hand myself but my helper after a year working for me, still does not know how to fold the strollers so I had to fold the strollers myself. I DID not ask her to wash the baby's hand for me, I was gonna wash it myself after I had folded the strollers but she had already went in to wash it.

FYI, I did not raise my voice at her at all, and I know it was an accident that is why I didn't even scold her or anything. I didn't even blame her. I even consoled her when she was crying. The only thing I asked of her afterwards was to be more careful next time. Is that even wrong?! MAybe it is wrong in your eyes because from your previous posts, you seem to think all employers are bad and you are such an advocate for them that in your eyes, they can do no wrong. Only employers are to be blamed and that we should just look after our children ourself and do everything ourselve.

I am not going to fire her and believe me, I will give her one month notice if I were to fire her and I have a ticket for her to go back to HK (business class too by the way) AND a ticket back to Philippines. I only posted that question in the event that her attitude toward us is still bad, why should I still keep her for one month if she were to give me attitude throughout?! I will not fire her while we are in the US because in the supporting letter to the US consulate, she is supposed to arrive and depart the US with us.

Happy V, it seems you always like to post on the helper forum and blast the employers for doing anything wrong. We cannot be unsatisfied with their work, we cannot reprimand them for being careless. How do you know I am not grateful for the work my helpers do for me? I am not in anyway mistreating them or underpaying them.

And yes, I am aware that accidents happen to everyone. I never blamed her in my post if you read carefully, I am just posting about her attitude afterwards and the way she told me to release her if I was not satisfied with her work. You think it's understandable that her attitude afterwards was bad, if I had done something wrong at my work, I would NOT act that way in front of my boss. I would NOT even dare to throw a tantrum or give my boss attitude. I tolerated it and I didn't even say anything about it, I even consoled her and said it was an accident and that my husband was only worried because he was not here. What would you do if your work employee acted that way after she did something wrong, would you say that you couldn't done her job to prevent the mistake from happening and that you would be ok with her attitude?!
 
Yes no one does things 100% all the time, but the way you answered my post sounded like it was just a scrape and not a second degree burn. And you said her behavior afterwards was understandable, but is it acceptable!? Do I even have a right now to be annoyed at that type of behavior on top of the fact that my little baby is hurt!!

I am already in such a miserable state seeing my daughter with a hugely bandaged hand, she has to go to the doc to change the dressing every 2-3 days and I was told it will take 10-14 days to heal and I am dealing with a helper with an attitude problem and here you go picking on me telling me that nothing would've happened if I were to look after the kids myself. Yes I am sure nothing would've happened if I were to wash her hands because I would for sure have tested the water first before I put her hand under the tap!
 
mintycat - I'm sorry if you've chosen to read my post that way.

if you only want to hear one kind of opinion, then posting a question on a public forum isn't any guarantee.

Of course, I am sorry for your daughter. I do not think your helper's attitutude is acceptable. How you run your family and your household is your business, and you did ask "So I am wondering if I release her immediately, do I still have to pay her one month even though she caused an injury to my baby?" This is the question I was responding to. And, (I'm not 100% sure on this - you may want to check) I think that unless you have the police charge her, that you do have to hold to the contract and give her the month. To point this out isn't 'taking the helper's side' - it's simply pointing out your (legal?) obligations to your employee. In your second post, you've said that you won't fire her yet, but your original post made this seem like a possibility.

I'm not a fan of comparisons between the relationships between helpers and their employers, and between the employers and their own bosses at work. Helpers are generally more vulnerable to exploitation (not that I am in any suggesting that you are exploting her - I am just making a general point about the legal protection and resources available to helpers as opposed to other contract workers). Your relationship with your own boss is bound to be more professional - that's the difference between working in a business, and working in someone's home. The relationships are completely different, and bound to be frought with many more complications and subtleties.

Just for the record - I did not mean that if you had been looking after them that it wouldn't have happened - I just mean that accidents happen to everyone. I worded it badly.

I'm sorry that you're in this situation. I hope your duaghter's hand heals up OK.
 
In my opinion, your daughters/ childrens safety comes first above anything. Plus when we leave our children with someone we trust them to tell us when accidents happen, so that we can deal with them. Accidents can happen in both a parents or helpers care. However, she should have been upset by what happened and remorseful, even if it was an accident. As a parent, that is the natural reaction. If she had acted upset and remorseful, I wouldve felt more comfortable. As she chose to try and hide it, i think this is of concern. What if the baby knocks her head and doesnt tell you, or swallows something she shouldnt. She must be willing to tell you. If you feel anyway uncomfortable with her, and feel you can not trust her fully with your children, then I personally I would, following the correct procedures, look for a new helper. The decision must come down to you, and whether you can still trust her 100% with your children.
 
Happy V - When I wrote my first post, it was because she had first suggested that I release her if I was not satisfied with her. And with that kind of attitude, I did think about it. I am more than willing to pay her one month. I am just posting that question to see if that still applies if she was the one who did something wrong that caused the termination (as my friend had brought it up). Then in the morning, she acted like nothing had happened and her bad attitude was gone, so that was why I reneged and decided that termination was not a probability anymore right now.

Of course I know there will be varied opinions on a public forum and perhaps I did read your post the wrong way, maybe I am very sensitive right now because I am still reeling from what happened.

Fair enough you don't want to compare relationships between employers and helpers / employees. My point is I was completely shocked at her attitude because normally she is a very sweet and nice person but suddenly she turned around and acted completely different. That actually shocked me most out of the whole incident.

mel_g20 - Yes I also would've felt better if she had shown more remorse.
 
I am already in such a miserable state seeing my daughter with a hugely bandaged hand, she has to go to the doc to change the dressing every 2-3 days and I was told it will take 10-14 days to heal and I am dealing with a helper with an attitude problem and here you go picking on me telling me that nothing would've happened if I were to look after the kids myself.

I'm sorry but if the hand has to be bandaged, this is simply not an accident. Turning the cold water tap on and not checking the temperature is an accident. How many of us have done this to ourselves and NOT ended up in the hospital? I have for sure. If the bub was crying and the helper ignored the cry then that's negligence. Instinctively WE ALL know that if a baby's cry is a sign of distress. The helper here did not check.

Icing on the cake, shows no remorse (Quite typical of them to be on the defensive). Her behaviour is unacceptable given that this is beyond an accident.

I'm a working mum. If I feel that I can't trust the helper, out the door she goes. There's thousands of them and a GOOD find is RARE. So, if she's so blaze about it all, she ain't worth it. BTW, given that there is a doctor's report, you don't have to give her the month's notice to send her packing.

The whole unpleasant situation could have been avoided had she simply been remorseful. It's a pity she's decided to be on the defensive and show her true colours. Always happens.
 
Mintycat - I'm sorry to hear about your daughter and I hope she recovers soon.

I am with spockey and mel_g20. Accidents I can take but showing no remorse and being defensive is unacceptable. To me it's a sign that she is not genuinely a pleasant person. I would have been in tears, worried and apologetic if I had done this to a child.
 
So Sorry to hear that

Hi Mintycat,

I agree with Spockey. Her actions may constitute negligence. You may as an option if you really feel like it have a police investigation. Your child cannot defend herself right now so it's really up to you to defend her. Second degree burn is not a small thing.

What appals me the worst is her after action attitude. If she shows no remorse/guilt at all, I really don't think she is a very pleasant person. I would let her go, get her a plane ticket back to wherever she comes from.

If somebody here thinks that my suggestions are harsh, try being in the child's position, going through an unnecessary traumatic experience early in life plus scars or possibly surgery later on.

Anyway, good luck to you.
 
That's exactly how I feel, Spockey. The more I think about it, the more I think it's a case of carelessness and negligence. As Carang said, many of us have burned ourselves (and in my previous post I also admitted to accidentally turning on the hot tap water on my 3 year old) but ending up with a second degree burn? If the helper's hand was under the tap too, she could've pulled my baby's hand away after a few seconds, but the fact that her own hand was not under the tap meant that my daughter's hand was there for quite some time for it to result in a second degree burn even though she was screaming and crying. She is a 13 month old, not like my 3 year old who can tell me the water is hot.

I feel so sad that my baby cannot enjoy all the things we have planned like going to the water park, playing at the water table in the backyard, even bathing is a struggle now because I have to wrap her bandaged hand with saran wrap and then plastic bag every time and I need another person to help hold her hand up so as not to get water anywhere near the hand (doctor's advise).

Thanks for all the advise.
 
Do you trust her anymore?

If you don't it is just not going to work out. You will second guess everything. If you do trust her you can go on from here.
 
It is definitely a safety issue, not of what happened, but what may happen in the future. Personally, I would not feel safe to leave my little one with such a helper. Not even when I am in the house, let alone leaving the little one in the helper's care while I am at work.

rgds
 
If I were you I would ask her to pack her bags and leave after coming back to Hong Kong. If she loved or cared for your daughter even a little bit she would be concerned as to why she was crying during/ after the hand washing and worried sick at the hospital after knowing how much pain she had caused to her. She didn't seem to care what happened to the little one and how distraught you and your husband were. Her attitude reflects her thinking that you are over exaggerating the whole thing (Which by no means you are). I would not employ anyone who does not love or care about my child and that too after spending one year with them, seeing them grow. I am concerned when my 4 month old scratches her face accidently, a second degree burn due to someone else?s negligence would make me hysterical. I also think you are being too nice to her, maybe more than what she deserves right now. Hope your darling daughter recovers soon. Take care.
 
Actually I do not trust her anymore. She told my other helper as well as my mother's maid that what happened was a minor thing in her eyes because she sees it happen in the Philippines all the time and that she does not understand what our fuss is all about. She even complained to them about having to accompany us to the doctor to change the dressing every 2-3 days! Thus she really has NO remorse and her attitude towards me right after the incident was not out of guilt as HappyV suggested but a sign that she just cannot accept responsibility.
 
Then it's also a question of ignorance (in regards to the comparison between HK and the Philippines).

I understand your feelings. I also still think that her reaction of one born of ignorance, gulit and fear: not becuase she is innately a horrible or uncaring person. If she was, you would have seen it in the past year she worked for you.

Perhaps if you sit and explain your feelings and thoughts through with her, she has the chance to understand more about where you are coming from. If it is done in a context of 'this is where we need to go now as emplyer/emplyee' rather than talking about who has to give who how much notice, it creates a more sympathetic environment for you both. That way, she gains skill, you gain a more responsible helper, and you don't have to fire her.

I'm not negating the seriousness of what happened - but if you fire her, you have to be sure that what you'll end up with is better.
 
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