A sound family budget?

H

HK2008

Registered User
Hello ladies,
We've been in HK for three months or so and I'm interested to know how other people are running their household. I've found that it's very true about HK being a shopping paradise and if we are not careful, we could be saying goodbye to thousands of dollars every day. Since I dare not count on hubby getting a pay-rise etc in the near future, I'd like to control the 'outgoings' a bit in order to stay more flexible during the present tough times. Here are some questions and thank you all in advance for sharing your thoughts. This is not at all a survey on people's earning power or spending behaviour. I'm merely seeking some great advice:

1. Rent: how many percentages of income should it be to be considered a sensible amount?
2. Dining out: how many times should we dine out each week? The less the better I know. :Butbut I do get bored and out of ideas after cooking similar meals again and again;
3. Grocery shopping: where do we go for shopping for groceries? Some people suggested wet market. But I can't seem to find anything that is cheaper than PnS, eg, meat and sea food. And veges? They are so cheap everywere anyway;
4. Clothing: unfortunately I have a very bad uncontrollable urge of buying new clothes for a family of four. Especially for my three year old DD. Most of her pretty dresses were only worn once or twice and some even had the tag on when they were declared too small. I know I'm being too greedy...Should I just stop shopping? But it's my only favorite thing to do to help pass the time...Any suggestions how I can cure this disease of mine?
5. Any other great saving ideas? Does anyone know how local people live their lives on $10,000 a month and still manage to have savings(I do know some live in public housing so please leave the accommodation aside).
Many thanks from the bottom of my heart...
 
when your helper finally arrives you'll find it easier to save $ as she can do the cooking.

instead of spending the $ on going out, buy some cookbooks and mark anything you think might be interesting... then have her experiment. that's what we did and it's worked a treat! some of the things she's made have been better than others, but we found some new things to add to our normal possibilities and it's much easier when she can decide for you. for dining out... we try to limit it to one nice dinner and one nice lunch per month. of course there are days that we get KFC or mcd's or even pizza hut, but they don't happen often. (it's still too much for my liking!)


STOP SHOPPING NOW! you will ALWAYS find things to buy. keep your credit cards at home. that way, if you see something you think you might like, you have to go all the way home to get the card before you make the purchase.

Go with the "one thing in, one thing out" for clothes. both for yourself and for your daughter. otherwise, you are wasting so much money that you could use on a trip to thailand or a holiday in italy!

if you think everytime before you buy, what else could i do with this money, it might help you stop needless shopping.

for groceries, there is a small wet market in FU TUNG in Tung chung, seafood is cheaper as are fruit and veg.
 
Just wanted to add to Cara's post...

When out shopping, ask yourself --

Do I really need this or or I just want it? Get it if you do need it, but leave it if you don't.
 
the thing i forgot is.... ONLY USE CASH or DEBIT cards!

the LAST thing you want in this economic climate is to be adding to credit card debt.
 
Hi

Rent is horrific on the Island (I know it doesn't have to be and ours is actually comparitively cheap for where we live in Pokfulam) but it's 40% of my salary and I can barely stand to think about the fact we owned our own zone 2 flat in London for less than half the rent here..

My husband and I meet for lunch a lot now as you get some phenomenal deals around Soho, Wyndham street and big hotels and top notch restaurants. We've (tried) to pull right back on evening dining out but if we can't, then we keep a lid on the wine list at least! If you read up you can find some great little places (e.g the freshest seafood place ever in Spring Garden Lane Wanchai - doesn't look like much but is GREAT)

My helper is invaluable at saving us money and constantly berates me for buying things at PnS when she can get them cheaper at local shops in Kennedy Town (dispensary pharmacies for nappies, baby wipes, toiletries etc.).

Clothes: I love outlet stores (Tung Chung is the best, plus there is also Horizon plaza in Ap Lei Chau) or if I am in the mood, Fa Yuen Street Market (the stores down the sides of the actual market have seconds / lots of designer brands super cheap). Stanley for children's stuff also (although for things that go next to the skin on small babies I tend to avoid fakes). For adults, I've just had some clothes done at the tailor in Shenzhen - sometimes hit and miss, but if you're copying something it's safer. You can browse the fabric market and really have some fun (at a good price). It also fits which is not always easy for me.. in particular when heavily pregnant....

Hope that helps!
 
Cara you are hardline - but good for you! I'm totally hopeless so my points should be read with that in mind......
 
i'm hardline, because i'm paying off debts....i have to be!
also, i would MUCH rather spend my $$$ on travel than on useless stuff.

but i still have some "luxuries". i LOVE my massage chair! i also go for the occasional massage at a little place in tsing yi during my lunch hour. she usually does 45 minutes for $148, but i can only do 30 minutes (i want it ALL on my back anyway) and she's agree to charg $100 for it. gives her business and me a much better afternoon!

also, hubby and i are both self-employed. we never know what we will have for income each month (although my playgroup is now going so well, i know i can count on a certain amount). if we are sick... NO PAY! we don't have much choice but to be a little frugal.

my daughter wears all the pj's that my son outgrows. i've not bought her any pjs at all. she also wears his old t-shirts etc around the house and puts on nicer, girlier stuff when we go out.

i buy almost all of my kids clothes in the markets. i have to be VERY careful in stanley or i go overboard. i ONLY buy stuff that my kids NEED. VERY occasionally what i WANT for them. i also have certain standards. i would NEVER spend more for an article of clothing for my kids that would be more than i'd spend for myself. i think the most expensive thing in my kid's closet is a pair fo trousers for my son. i bought them when he was 18 months old. i bought them at size 3. we rolled up the bottoms. he's now 4 years old AND STILL WEARING THEM! i don't mind paying a little more, IF i'm going to get the use out of them. and i figure $200 for a pair of good quality trousers VS 2.5 years... NOT BAD! lol!

the one thing i don't skimp on for my kids is shoes. i buy them good quality shoes. but they dont' ahve many pairs. the each have one pair of sports shoes and one pair of sandals. my son also has shoes for school.

i don't buy a lot of toys for them either. i didn't even get them birthday presents earlier this month. i told them that we were going to canada and their present was getting to see their grandma and their cousins. they were happy with that. i also baked my own cakes for them and they helped me decorate them. they LOVE doing it adn it costs 1/10 what it would have if i'd bought the cake in a fancy cake shop.

for my own clothing... i go for trousers and a few tops at H & M, and then a few more costly tops in M & S.

we dont' have the latest and the best of almost anything. i did go overboard with my latest mobile phone though. i'd had the cheapest one on the market for such a long time, i decided to treat myself to an iphone.

we only JUST got an LCD tv when our old one died. we got the cheapest one in fortress. we still have the old style tv downstairs in the living room so the kids won't break the new one.

like i said, it's born of necessity. funny thing... you would never guess the number of times i've argued with my mum about money and how she thinks i love to spend it! LOL!
 
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as for what we pay rent....
hard to work out a percentage as our income varies so drastically.

when we signed the lease, it was probably about 40%. but now, things are looking VERY good for us and it's probably about 20%....(no change in rent... only in income!)
 
1. Right now we live in a 700sqft 2bdrm walk-up in midlevels which costs us 10% of our family income (we negotiated during SARS and our landlady has only increased our rent by $500hkd every year we have been here). Although it's small for our growing family of 4 + 2 dogs - we are considering moving but don't want to spend more money since we spend roughly $20K a month in medical expenses and enjoy traveling often.

2. Dining out: Hubby and I eat out together 2-3 times a week. We also eat out with the kids 2 times a week. Mommies lunch or coffee out - 2 times a week.

3. Grocery shopping: we choose to spend less on rent and more on food and other things. We buy all organics and use quite a bit of our monthly budget on food.

4. Clothing: I too really like to shop. I often will leave the store and tell myself if i still want it after i have been to another store, then i can go back and get it. usually after i am out of the moment, i can't be bothered to go back. I also budget for shopping sprees. since we travel out of hong kong quite often i don't buy anything in hk unless it's really necessary - like i need black heels and mine broke. It has worked for me to not shop on a regular basis and when i do travel, i find that since i am used to not shopping, i don't end up shopping as much as i thought i would. Our kids only have 10 sets of clothing per season and since we do laundry every other day, they wear the same things every week. Then whatever doesn't fit after the season is over is either passed down or donated. This way, we have a fun time shopping for the kids 4 times a year and the rest of the time, we can say, 'oh the kids already have all they need" helps us save space.

5. the locals shop at the wet markets and eat at local restaurants. if you eat a regular diet of rice, tofu, local fish, chinese vegetables, each meal can work out to be very inexpensive - you can buy a whole bag of veggies from the market for $6 and if you are a regular they will throw in the green onions, fish for $120, tofu 2 for $11. stir fry dishes with beef and chicken use small amounts of meat that are mixed in with veggies so are much cheaper than some western meals where meat would be the main portion of the meal (i.e. steak, roast chicken) We try to eat a combination of chinese and western meals. we also eat all our seafood at home (order from southstream seafoods).

When dining out, unless it's for coffee, we don't order drinks. It cuts down on your total bill since some places can charge up to $30 for a drink!!! it's crazy!! If we are out and I am really thirsty, i will head over to 7Eleven but usually i carry my own bottle of water from home.

We don't make shopping a family outing on the weekend and when grocery shopping, we stick to what's on the list. Hubby loves sparkling water so we order that in bulk from a distributor. We also installed a filter for our drinking water instead of drinking bottled water.

After our first baby, hubby packed a lunch, but he hasn't done that in a long time since the birth of our 2nd baby. That is actually a real money saver if your hubby doesn't mind bringing his lunch. on average, if you spend $70-$90 everyday for lunch + coffee here and there (of course depending on where he works), that's $1400-$1800++ every month! that could be a weekend trip to Thailand in 4mths for the 2 of you!!

When wipes at welcome are buy 2 get 1 free, i stock up with 60packs that i store under our bed. when the grandparents or friends visit, we ask for diapers instead of toys. usually the grandparents will pack a full suitcase of diapers and it will last us a few months. diapers are really really cheap in Canada, especially when they are on sale!! we now use cloth nappies for our older son which is an economical option, but i can't do the poop cleaning so we only use them after he has made his poop.

We also put money into savings first every month so at least we know we have put away what we don't want to spend. I use MS money to calculate all our expenses and we save all our receipts even for taxis that we tally up at the end of the month, if we are over budget, I take it out of next month's budget and we go out less. but if it's an area that is constantly over budget, then i will make adjustments to our allocation of funds.

We don't have a land line, do people still do that? but we only use our mobile phones. Since we don't watch TV much, we don't subscribe to cable either - this is more of a lifestyle thing than it is a money savings thing and we share our internet with our friend who live upstairs.
 
cara, we use credit cards for everything and make the most of the points and special offers/discounts. that's how we got our oven and air filter!! but we ALWAYS pay off the balance so in that sense, we use it like a debt card.

congrats on the successful business!!!
 
Big thank you to you all!

Hello ladies. I really couldn't thank you enough for sharing your great saving ideas. The main reason that I started this thread is I now realised that I'm doing all the wrong things and would like to have an overhaul to my spending behaviour. It's been almost four months for us here in HK but we absolutely got almost nothing left at the end of each month. Hubby will be kind enough to turn a blind eye on that because I'm always complaning of being bored and need to go out, etc...

I've seriously learned a lot of great lessons today. Here I solemnly promise you, I'll print out all your advice and stick them onto our walls. I will make up a plan to thoroughly review and modify my spending behaviour.

It's so encouraging to see that there are so many sensible ladies out there who are running a household so efficiently. I have to admit I stepped out on the wrong foot at the beginning that expats should spend like a king/queen. Now I know at the end of the day, what matters to me the most is to take home as much money as possible if we do decide to move back; or be able to save enough money and buy our own property here if we decide to stay.

Thank you to all from the bottom of my heart...
 
I love this subject. I think that it doesn't matter how high or low your income is, it's something that should be on everyone's minds. Good financial management allows you to live the life you want to live and even the highest earners find themselves in trouble without a plan.

The best thing we ever did was to start recording every purchase we made to see where the money was going. We're here (in HK) to do well, save money and leave. It makes no sense to spend everything we earn. The minute we started recording what we were spending it changed our thinking, or rather my thinking (hubbie has always been good with money). If you want to lose weight they tell you the first thing to do is write down everything you eat. It holds you accountable and you can't pretend the endless pieces of chocolate throughout the day didn't exist! It's the same with writing down what you spend. Now when i shop i can easily say no to all the little things i used to buy without thinking that add up over time. It's actually a good feeling to deny oneself occasionally!

It also helps to actually look at your bills and take in the numbers. Sounds obvious but we have been paying over $4000 a month for electricity and only thought twice about it last month. We realised our helper is constantly running the dryer and it's costing us almost more than she does!

We pay everything on credit card but pay our balances off every month. The points come in handy for travel etc. It just takes a little discipline.

Save money every single month. It should be on a direct debit payment if you're not disciplined enough to do it yourself, taken out right after pay day. We move money off shore every month without fail and it adds up quickly.

And last few tips. 1) just don't walk into shops! Seriously, if you don't walk in you won't know what you're missing out on. it's not as hard as it sounds.

2) find something that makes you happy and do it. Spend time with friends, go for a walk, work, whatever. It's a lot easier to say no to shopping if you're not depressed and in need of a quick pick me up.

3) work out what your goals in life are? If you want to be part of the rat race forever keep spending away. If you want options in life, early retirement, financial security then you need to put money away and stop the spending. Helps to know what you're working towards.

A really good book to read is 'the millionaire next door'. Shows how people of all incomes can be financially secure and how often it is the most showy people that have the biggest debt/lowest net worth etc.

In this day and age it's kind of cool to be thrifty. At least, that's what i tell myself :haha:
 
I agree..it's very cool to be thrifty and topical too - what a great post!

One way of stopping the clothes shopping habit is to accept hand-me-downs from friends (don't be shy, just ask - they will probably be happy to have an excuse for a good clear-out of stuff anyway given the size of HK flats!) - or borrow the clothes while they are 'on hold' for the next baby. Once you have a wide selection at home then you may not feel the need to add to it! Also, limit shopping to once a week - or find out when the sales are and then plan ahead and that's something to look forward to? And if you're done with some of your kids' clothes - ie the brand new ones with tags that you mentioned - then maybe sell them? Sure, you won't get what you paid for them but hey, you'll get something back right? And you could also have a little piggy bank where you put all the money that you save - great incentive - for then doing something really fun with it later on.

On the food front, if you are used to going out a lot, just pick one day - say saturday that you'll dine out if you must - and then eat home the rest of the time - i find that menu planning has really helped to cut down our food costs as we do not have so many leftovers or things that need to be thrown away that have gone bad..So make a list of dishes that you all like/can make etc and then just put it down for the days of the week that you'll be eating in. And yes, carry a bottle of water wherever you go as all those drinks are so ridiculously priced and tempting..

You've definitely taken the first step in trying to save money and that's really great - well done!:yeah2
 
my mum and a group of close friends used to get together once per month. everyone chipped in $20 CAD. that money went to one of the women who then used it to buy an article of clothing.

at the next month's "meeting" she wore the article and showed everyone. then someone else got the $.

they had a great time, felt like they could splurge (if there are 10 of them, that's a fair chunk of change in canada!).
 
as for the credit cards, it doesn't work for US because we never know how much is coming in. it can be VERY difficult to pay it off in it's entirety at the end of the month.... hence why we're working our butts off now to pay them off! LOL!
 
Carang, I agree that if two people are self employed in the household things change dramatically. Planning is a lot harder. I'm self employed and never know how much I'll have coming in. It's a scary prospect to think that both bread winners in the family might be in that boat! Takes a lot of guts.
 
carang said:
as for the credit cards, it doesn't work for US because we never know how much is coming in. it can be VERY difficult to pay it off in it's entirety at the end of the month.... hence why we're working our butts off now to pay them off! LOL!
Click to expand...

That is tough! Hubby and I used to both be self-employed but that was before we had kids. It must be hard not to be able to plan and know how much income will come in with a family to support.
 
Hello ladies again, what you have said here so deeply touched my heart. I'd be completely a fool if I didn't take them all in and make changes from TODAY. This morning when I looked at my DD's wardrobe, I felt like crying because I had accumulated so much clothes for her that even she does three changes a day, she won't be able to go through them all by the end of the season...What have I done??? And there I was-still pushing hubby(who's on business trip in Sydney) to buy more dresses for her!

I had thought a lot last night and here is a list of things I'd like to do('with immediate effect'):

First of all I'll stop going into the shops. I know I don't need ANYTHING but most of the times I just feel like going in and saying hello to the staff there, who are always so friendly and helpful then I'll end up buying as if the kids had no clothes yet for the new season;

I'll buy cookbooks and plan our menu ahead. This way I don't have to wait and do nothing till hubby gets home then there is nothing on the table so we have to go out to eat. I'm aiming at eating out only once a week for now(Gee it's gonna be hard);

Grocery shopping: I'll limit the consumption of imported stuff especially if they are not good to health, eg. aussie bacon, margarine, cheese, Demark cookies, all brands of chocolate etc. Aussie milk is still a daily necessity so I cannot compomise on the quality for the kids' sake; I'll spend some time getting a few tips on how to shop in a wet market from the girl working in the concierge;

Credit cards: we do pay off the balance each month; but it's always a pretty big amount to pay. I'll set up a family budget for each category(food, travel, dining out, clothes, holidaying, gifts, fixed assets like camera) and stick to the budgeted amount;

And aussiegal, I want everything you'd mentioned in your post. Early retirement, finacial security...Actually I was initally planning to pay off the home loan back in Australia. Now I'll put aside a set amount and transfer it back home at the end of each month;

I'll also set up some goals too. One can feel lost here in this busy city! I'll start doing something meaningful...and stop being purely a consumer.

Carang, you are such a role model to me. I'd be so much better off if only I could achieve 1/3 of what you said...

I am very grateful to all of you ladies who cared enough to help me out. I don't feel so lonely any more and also swear that I won't let you down!:thanks
 
When we first started budgeting, we found it helpful to collect all our receipts and write down exactly where and how we were spending our money for 3 months first. We then had a very realistic picture of our spending habits and worked out a budget with the information we collected that would actually work for us. budgeting is hard to stick to sometimes, best be sure to make a realistic one that also helps you reach your financial goals. Good luck!!
 
HK2008, i also wanted to say that I can completely understand the being new to HK, feeling a bit lost and bored and using shopping as an activity. I did it for awhile but thankfully realised what I was doing. I think it's important to invest some time in getting to meet people. I have made some good friends from this forum so don't be shy when people suggest meeting up etc.

It also helps if you hang out with people who are here for the same reasons. (financial freedom etc) I know some people who just spend and spend and only want to go shopping. That's not for me. I'm happy to spend money but on the things that are important to me. Am a sucker for luxury holidays! I just can't stay in budget hotels.

HK is such a consumer society. I think it can take some effort to remove yourself from that mentality. When we first arrived we spent two months at Four Seasons place. I remember going to the IFC mall and thinking, oh my god, i'm going to have to start wearing designer t-shirts to fit into this world! When we moved out we were relieved to realise that not everyone lives in luxury stores...
 
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