2nd day back at work - PUMPING BM

[evgreen]

I just came back to work yesterday and luckily, I have a flexible job, so I'm not here full days. I work from 9am - 3pm and in that time, my baby will feed twice (expressed breast milk only). I have had a freezer supply going since my baby was about 2 weeks old but up till now I've been exclusively breastfeeding her and giving her expressed milk only when I really had to go out to run errands.

Thing is should my freezer supply be for back up emergencies only? I feel like I should only be pumping for the next day at work. Meaning two 20-minute pumping sessions fit into my work day. I have pumped the same amount yesterday and today which is about 4.5oz per session using an electric double pump so I got 9oz total per day. I feel like I should be pumping more!

Baby ate 6oz for her first bottle at 10:30am and then another 3oz at 1pm. I told the helper to just wait till I come home to feed her instead of feeding her more unless she really is starving and crying for more in which she'll just have to defrost more milk. If I start supplementing from the freezer I feel like that isn't doing my own supply a favor. I've also thought about squeezing in an extra pumping session right before going to bed since she has recently dropped her 10pm feeding and sleeps from 7pm - 1 or 2am then wakes at around 6:30-7am for the day.

For all you working and pumping mothers, does pumping volume get better with time? How much and how often does your little one feed while you're at work? By the way, my girl is 10 weeks old and 11lbs (5kg). She was born at 7lbs so it seems like she's gaining weight just fine from exclusively breastfeeding.

 

[thanka2]

For all you working and pumping mothers, does pumping volume get better with time? How much and how often does your little one feed while you're at work? By the way, my girl is 10 weeks old and 11lbs (5kg). She was born at 7lbs so it seems like she's gaining weight just fine from exclusively breastfeeding.

Congrats on your baby Also, good work on breastfeeding and pumping. Really good to hear you have a supportive work environment for this because that can often make or break you when it comes to pumping breastmilk.

I think every baby is different and so is every mother. I'll just share some of the things that helped me.

I went back to work the very day my daughter turned 8-weeks-old. At first, I would feed my daughter and then get up and pump before going to work. At work I pumped mid-morning and then my daughter came to my work for a feeding at lunchtime and then I would pump-mid afternoon. I fed my daughter as soon as I got home in the evening and then pumped again later in the evening. I was feeding my daughter on the breast about every 2-3 hours, though. She has co-slept with us since birth so often she would feed off-and-on all night long. I also went through times when I built up a huge supply of frozen breastmilk. I found that there would be times that we used it up very quickly--usually for convenience.

One of the best tips I got was from Sarah from LLL on this forum. My daughter started to drink a lot more milk when she hit about 5-months-old and I just couldn't keep up with the pumping at work. Sarah suggested that we begin cup feeding her instead of bottle feeding. That worked wonderfully! Now, she is comfortable drinking out of a cup and has even started using a straw to drink and she's 9-months-old exactly.

As far as pumping getting easier? I didn't find it that hard to begin with but when my cycle came back when my daughter was about 10-weeks-old, I found my milk supply dropped a lot so for a time I had to go on domperidone and also take a lot of fennel and fenugreek (copius, copius amounts of both....eeeek). But, those remedies helped and I was able to maintain a steady 4-6 ounce per pumping output which saw my daughter and I through until she was about 8-months-old and that's when I stopped pumping breastmilk because with a long morning feeding prior to getting out of bed, a lunchtime feeding and then her eating solids pretty regularly since she was about 6-months-old she can do without that one or two extra expressed breastmilk feedings in a day.

But, if you don't have that lunch feeding, you'll probably have to keep up with the pumping but honestly, after awhile it just wasn't such a huge worry. I just kind of realized that as long as my daughter was eating well it wouldn't harm her to go a little longer between feeds after a certain point. So, if she didn't get a lot of milk from me because my pumping output wasn't so great for the day (which can be affected by hormones, illness, diet, stress) then I just have to not worry and let her drink that amount and then make up for it later.

Now, my freezer doesn't have any frozen breastmilk in it and it hasn't been an issue at all. Time will go by fast. Good luck!

 

[bonita]

I went back to work when my daughter was 10 weeks old. Since she was feeding every 2-3 hours, I kept a similar schedule for pumping at work. I'll feed her at 8 before I leave home, pump at 11am, 2pm and 5pm. Feed her as I arrive home around 7pm. When I was away, she usually had the same number of feedings as my pumping. If she wanted more, that's when the babysitter hit the freezer. Keep pumping! Breast milk in the freezer can only be kept so long. Even when my daughter was a year old, we still had 5-8 frozen feedings for emergency/convenience purpose.

 

[evgreen]

Thank you both so much for your replies. It's stressful thinking about not being able to keep up with baby's demands! Especially for any upcoming growth spurts. I am drinking mother's milk tea and I think it helps a bit but I'm not religious about drinking it. Usually 2-3 cups per day. I do cluster feed my daughter from 4-6pm every hour to make up for being away and I think that's helping her sleep longer at night as well.

Thanka2, how does cup feeding help? Does it slow down the feeding so they don't end up overfeeding from a bottle??

 

[thanka2]

Thanka2, how does cup feeding help? Does it slow down the feeding so they don't end up overfeeding from a bottle??

Exactly. Because unlike formula-fed babies who increase the volume of milk they take in in order to get more calories as they grow, breastfed babies don't increase their milk volume intake much. Instead, the components of the milk change over time to perfectly meet the child's nutritional needs--so it's not a matter of the child drinking a lot more volume of milk over time (although the volume can increase slightly--especially during growth spurts). With breastmilk, it's quality of milk rather than quantity of milk that makes the difference. Babies drinking breastmilk from a bottle actually usually overeat--not that it is harmful to them to have "too much" breastmilk but it's not really necessary. So, if you cup feed the baby will eat until he/she is full and then stop which means the increase in volume won't be more than what the mother can manage.

As far as maintaining milk supply--these are the foods that helped me a lot. First is oatmeal. For the first 8 months I ate a large bowl of oatmeal with a little bit of real maple syrup for flavoring (has some trace minerals in it that are healthy for you). I did this every day. If I didn't do it, there was a noticeable change in my milk pumping output for the day. Second is green vegetables. I ate Shanghai veggie or choy sum every single day and now I've switched to raw, baby spinach because it's in season--I have a huge bowl of this every single day for lunch. The last thing is a very good quality calcium supplement. I use USANA Active Calcium.

I was having difficulties with milk supply after my cycle came back and I did go on domperidone and was taking fennel and fenugreek (we're talking like 6 tablespoons of each in a cupfull of water about 2-3 times/day--I literally was sweating fenugreek from my pores--smelled like maple syrup all the time!) and that did help to kickstart the increase in milk production but....then I got hold of the Active Calcium and instantly my milk supply went up and remained stable. That was probably the reason why I wasn't having very good milk production to begin with--low on calcium.

Of course, good water intake is really important but I never have a problem with that. I probably drink 1-2 liters of water every day usually so it's not an issue with me. Rest is important and not being over-stressed.

Hope you'll have a very successful breastfeeding time. I told myself I would give it eight weeks this time around. I certainly have gone through my problems both with my first and with my second child. But, my daughter turned 9-months-old yesterday and I'm still breastfeeding her and that's amazing--very thankful to God. It hasn't been easy but it has been good.

 

[Gracey]

Help! Maybe you pumping moms can give me advice.

I've been BFing every 3 hours at home from morning till 10 pm, at which time my baby goes to bed and usually sleeps the night without a feed. She's 4 months now.

I'm going back to work when she's 5 months. So I'm trying to get used to pumping and get her used to the bottle. (Another long story).

But I don't get much when I pump. This is a problem, as it's hard to train her on the bottle when I can't pump enough between BFs. Also, I worry my production will drop even more after I go back to work,

When do you pump? Before feeds? After feeds? Right in that period between feeds?

Oddly, my manual pump, which is a PAIN to use, actually gets more out. I bought a Medela Mini electric pump -- and it stops getting milk out of me after 10-15 minutes, and I usually only get about 3 oz. My baby is a BIG eater and this is not enough.

My workplace is not going to be pumping friendly. I'm not going to get special treatment because I'm a mom, and all of us work 8, 9-hour shifts without a break. I mean, we can't even make it out for lunch. There hasn't been a working mom in our department (except me) since I started at this company years ago.

Even going to the toilet to pump for 20 minutes might raise eyebrows. I'm going to try my best, but I don't know if it's going to work.

If I don't manage to pump -- or pump much -- during my work days, will my body still produce enough in the mornings and nighttimes so I can at least feed twice a day?

 

[thanka2]

When do you pump? Before feeds? After feeds? Right in that period between feeds?

I had to experiment a little bit when I first started. But, I found that what worked best was breastfeeding my daughter throughout the night (co-sleeping) and then a long feed in the morning before we got up (6:30-7:30 am) and then pumping after I had eaten breakfast (8:00 am). I would then feed mid-morning (10:00 am) and pump right afterward. Then I would breastfeed at lunchtime, eat and then pump again. Then I would breastfeed mid-afternoon and pump again afterward. Then feed at dinnertime and pump afterward and then in the evening I would just feed about 2-3 more times and pump one more time before bed. That was just to get my milk supply up. I never pumped longer than 15 minutes at a time no matter what the output was. I use a Medela (Pump in Style, older model) double, electric breastpump and I do breast compressions while I pump which greatly helps the output.

Oddly, my manual pump, which is a PAIN to use, actually gets more out. I bought a Medela Mini electric pump -- and it stops getting milk out of me after 10-15 minutes, and I usually only get about 3 oz. My baby is a BIG eater and this is not enough.

You see the note above about cup feeding versus bottle feeding. I also have a baby who is a BIG eater but when we put her on cup feeding at about 5 months she actually only drank about 4 ounces a feeding or a little less. Her weight gain has been great and no problems at all.

Even going to the toilet to pump for 20 minutes might raise eyebrows. I'm going to try my best, but I don't know if it's going to work.

This will be a problem because in order to keep your milk supply up you're going to need to pump probably at least three times/day if you're not having a breastfeeding session during the time you're at work. Each time will take you on average 15 minutes. I would be upfront with your boss and explain that you are requesting that time. If you need, get a note from the doctor. Who knows how it will go but you had better be prepared to do it at least three times/day.

If I don't manage to pump -- or pump much -- during my work days, will my body still produce enough in the mornings and nighttimes so I can at least feed twice a day?

If you don't breastfeed every 4-5 hours or pump your supply is probably going to drop off. It will be hard to go for a 10-hour stretch without breastfeeding or pumping and keep up your supply. Also, pumping is not the equivalent of breastfeeding in terms of maintaining a breastmilk supply. I would contact La Leche League in Hong Kong immediately for advice on a gameplan to help you if you're really serious about keeping at this while you're working.

 

[charade]

I would then feed mid-morning (10:00 am) and pump right afterward. Then I would breastfeed at lunchtime, eat and then pump again. Then I would breastfeed mid-afternoon and pump again afterward. Then feed at dinnertime and pump afterward and then in the evening I would just feed about 2-3 more times and pump one more time before bed.

By "afterwards", do you mean right after your baby breastfed...i.e. without a break? Didn't your breasts feel sort of empty after your baby fed... but did you just pump anyway?

I also pumped for my son but want to do better this time round. I'll try the fenugreek thing also.

I'm not a poster child for pumping but my experience was that my supply did drop off. It's harder when you work a full 9 hour day though I know some women who have managed to keep their babies exclusively on breastmilk for a year. Part of my problem was my diet was a mess because my son had reflux and I kept eliminating things to see what was causing it, resulting in me eating practically nothing. Also, once I returned to work and my son was on the bottle, I started skipping the middle-of-night feed (and having someone else bottlefeed him) which of course is not great for supply.

My experience is that the pump will not give as much milk as direct breastfeeding. I was also advised to eat a good breakfast and pump after and also to eat protein-rich food.

One tip: if you have problems with let-down in office - honestly pumping in the loo is so depressing - look at a photo of your baby and try to visualise him/her. It really helps.

Also, the more one stresses about how much milk one is getting through the pump, the less one gets in my opinion. So my approach was to try and be 'whatever' about the quantity and just do my best.

 

[evgreen]

Thanka2, thank you for all the tips. I've been eating oatmeal anyway almost everyday! I'm trying the calcium supplements now to help maintain my supply as well. Hope my cycle doesn't return so soon.

Gracey, pumping 3 ounces between feedings is actually really good! Have you tried to practice pumping in place of a feeding instead of between feedings to see how much you get? When I pump between feedings I usually only get 2 ounces maximum. I can get 4-5 ounces when I pump in place of a feeding. It usually takes me 2-3 pumps to get a whole feeding if I pump in between feedings. Once you have a full feeding in a bottle, you can try having someone else give the bottle while you pump.

I'm really sorry that your workplace is not very supportive of breastfeeding or even taking breaks. I can imagine thinking about it alone is very stressful. I don't have any tips in that department but I totally agree with Thanka2's suggestion of contacting LLL. Perhaps pumping 3 sessions of even 5 minutes everyday at work is better than going 8-9 hours pumping only once!

 

[evgreen]

Oh try also using an electric double pump. I use the Medele Freestyle, but I had to buy it from the states. Takes much less time than a single pump!

 

[thanka2]

By "afterwards", do you mean right after your baby breastfed...i.e. without a break? Didn't your breasts feel sort of empty after your baby fed... but did you just pump anyway?

Well, actually, the point of pumping isn't always just to "get milk" out--if you're building up your milk supply--part of it is to keep stimulating your breast so even that little bit you get afterward--if you're doing it consistently all day, every day will signal to your body to produce more breastmilk. This is the way to build up your supply. So, no I didn't really take a break afterward. Every little bit counts because breastmilk production works on a "replacement system"--your breasts will produce and fill with the same volume of breastmilk that is being demanded so to get more milk you have to keep pumping a little bit at a time which adds more demand on the production which produces greater yields over time. Also, when I was breastfeeding in the beginning, rarely did my daughter feed on both breasts so if I breastfed and then pumped I would get whatever milk was left in the breast that had not been fed on (or had been fed less on).

I also pumped for my son but want to do better this time round. I'll try the fenugreek thing also.

Fenugreek works best if you take it with domperidone--if you're doing both of those together it should help a ton. You can get ground Fenugreek in a glass jar at City Super for a good price. I walked into a local pharmacy and told them I wanted domperidone in 10 mg tablets and I bought like 200 tablets--I think they were like 0.30/tablet or something. Don't buy it in a bubble pack because it's too expensive--only buy it when you can buy per tablet and you'll get a better deal. You have to take 30 mg, 3 times/day.

My experience is that the pump will not give as much milk as direct breastfeeding. I was also advised to eat a good breakfast and pump after and also to eat protein-rich food.

Yes, I think a hearty breakfast is good because I always yielded way more in the morning than I did in the afternoons--even at the mid-morning pumping.

Also, the more one stresses about how much milk one is getting through the pump, the less one gets in my opinion. So my approach was to try and be 'whatever' about the quantity and just do my best.

I agree.

 

[thanka2]

I'm really sorry that your workplace is not very supportive of breastfeeding or even taking breaks. I can imagine thinking about it alone is very stressful. I don't have any tips in that department but I totally agree with Thanka2's suggestion of contacting LLL. Perhaps pumping 3 sessions of even 5 minutes everyday at work is better than going 8-9 hours pumping only once!

I was just thinking and I don't know what type of work you're involved in, Gracey but, is it possible for you to come to your boss and say, "Look, this is very important for me and my daughter's health. I need to take these short breaks during the day to pump but I am willing to stay after hours for an extra 45 minutes or hour to make up for lost time just to show you I'm not trying to 'slack off' during the work day." Again, I don't know if this is practical in your line of work but this type of gesture really shows your good faith to your employer and willingness to go the extra mile.

 

[charade]

Thanks Thanka! I hate the feeling of pump on empty breast but I'll try to suck it up and do it more this time to get that supply going.

 

[bonita]

I second the medela freestyle. The double pump stimulates both breast at the same time, usually resulting in more milk. It also cuts pumping time in half since you are pumping both breasts simultaneously.

Looking at kid's photo helps.

Do you work at a desk? A cubicle? If so, have you ever consider using a nursing cover & a hands-free pump? Might take a little bit of practice at home to make it smooth and discrete. Mind you, if your working place is super quiet, this might not work.

I work in TV, when I used to go on location, I'll bring my hand pump & freezer bag to pump at least once in a 6-hour shoot. I might not be able to get a lot of milk, but at least I wouldn't go too long without stimulation on the breasts.

Hope everything works out for you.

 

[evgreen]

My sister in law pumps while she drives with a nursing cover! But she lives in California so it's very much a driving culture. I guess people can get pretty creative when it comes to pumping.

Also, forgot to mention, I built up most of my freezer stash by pumping on one side while baby nursed on the other side.

 

[bonita]

evgreen: I do the same thing, too, nurse and pump simultaneously. Best output. In fact, whenever I pump like this, I get more than my baby can eat in one feeding.

 

[Gracey]

Thanka -- your schedule's crazy! So you're basically either feeding or pumping every other hour. There's no way I will be able to do that with my work situation.

Pumping at my desk is not going to work, unfortuantely -- it's a male-dominated office, open plan, super quiet.
I may just do 3 or 4 shorter sessions during what would be normal bathroom / coffee / sandwich breaks. If I do it in the toilet, nobody has to know.

In retrospect, I'm so glad I took more time off for maternity.
At least I know my baby will get 5+ months of exclusive breastfeeding -- which is close to WHO recommended half year. I figure that's pretty good -- and then I will probably move to mixed feeding the months I return to work.
If I can do 1-2 feedings in the morning and 1 at night, and pump a little in between -- she should still be getting the majority of her milk from me. Plus, I will BF on my days off and weekends.
I'll be exhausted, but I think that will work. Wish me luck!

 

[Sarah_Lotus]

One useful concept to remember when returning to work is that of the magic number.

Count the number of times you feed the baby in a day (24 hours) before you return to work and then make sure the number of feeding plus the number of pumpings is the same after you return.

e.g. Say you are feeding the baby seven times a day before returning to work ? then seven is your magic number. If you can manage three pumpings a day while at work, then you need to feed the baby directly four times a day to keep the magic number. If one day you are really busy at work and only manage to pump twice then you need to fit five direct feedings in while at home.

There is a good article which explains this better than me at http://www.nancymohrbacher.com/blog/tag/for-employed-nursing-mothers
(about half way down the page)

Best wishes,
SARAH
www.lotuslactation.com

 

[thanka2]

Thanka -- your schedule's crazy! So you're basically either feeding or pumping every other hour. There's no way I will be able to do that with my work situation.

No...that was my schedule BEFORE I went back to work when I was building up my breastmilk supply by pumping and also freezing breastmilk in the freezer. Aren't you still preparing to go back to work? I had trouble with low milk supply at points so I had to really work hard to get that milk to flow in copious amounts.

This was my schedule when I was at work.

Early Morning: One feeding before getting out of bed (both sides)--about 30 minutes because we're still in bed
(Before Work: Pump for mid-afternoon feeding *always pumping with a good-quality double electric pump--always pumping both sides* if I know I won't have time to pump in the mid-afternoon: 10-15 minutes)
Mid-Morning: Pump for mid-morning feeding: 10-15 minutes
Lunchtime: Breastfeed. Takes about 10 minutes. Feed for 5 on one side, eat, then finish up for 5 on the other--still do this.
(Mid-Afternoon: Pump for the mid-afternoon feeding if I have time...otherwise I switch and pump before work to cover this: 10-15 minutes)
After Work: Usually home by 5:30 pm--breastfeed as soon as I get home. Usually a combined 2-3 feedings at night--each no more than 15 minutes.
Sleeptime: We co-sleep so daughter may be breasetfeeding off/on during the night but not a big deal as I don't have to really wake up much for this.

The most I ever pumped at work was twice/day--sometimes only once if I was instead pumping at home before I left for work. If I had not been able to breastfeed my daughter directly (which is really quick and efficient compared with using a pump) at lunchtime, I would have had to add one more pumping. So, it's likely my pumping at work would have been still only twice/day and I would have just had to pump a third time before work as usual.

But, once my daughter was to six months-old, she started on a bit of solids which meant that I didn't have that pressure to pump so much. I stopped pumping breastmilk when she wasn't quite 8-months-old--because as long as she could have a long feed before we got out of bed in the morning and a lunchtime breastfeed, she could eat a mid-afternoon snack of solids. We didn't give her a mid-morning snack (although she'd have a bit of fruit and cereal with breastmilk for breakfast) because I wanted her to be hungry enough to really have a full feeding when she arrived to nurse at lunchtime.

If I had been unable to feed her at lunchtime I probably would have kept with pumping twice--once before work and once at lunchtime--just to keep my breastmilk supply going. It really helps me that sometimes my daughter feeds through the night--like she'll latch on and a few hours later I'll wake up and she's still nursing--this helps my breastmilk supply.

I think you'll have it a lot easier than new moms who have to go back when their babies are 8-weeks-old (like mine was) because 1) you have an established milk supply and have worked out some of the early breastfeeding issues (I assume) 2) your daughter is almost ready to start solids if that's what you want to do so if she gets a bit hungry there will be other options to see her through until she can get to the milk sometimes. Pumping before work actually was pretty convenient for me and the milk was a lot more plentiful and fast-flowing int he mornings. Adding another pumping session in at night for 10-15 minutes while you're watching TV or something can also help. Then at some point you'll probably only need to pump 1-2 times at your work. I think you'll be able to figure out a way to do it if it's really important to you. Just remember if you start mixed feedings that can affect milk supply which will work against you if you can neither pump or feed as much as you'd like to. But, at 5-months-old (will your child be 6-months-old when you go back?) it will be less of an issue. Good luck!

 

[Gracey]

Sarah -- My "magic number" is 6. She feeds 6 times a day now.
I can feed her twice in the morning and once late at night -- so that's 3.
But there's no way I can pump 3 times a day in the office.
So maybe I move to 70% or 80% BFing. As she will be almost 6 months at that point, I don't feel so bad about it.