Has this affected your view of helpers?

S

smglobal

Registered User
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Oretga-charged-murder-children-aged-6-2.html

I'm sure most of you have read about this by now. I was surprised no one decided to start a discussion topic on it but now that the nanny has woken up and, at least by this account, pointed to the employers as implicit in leading to her actions (by giving her housework which she felt was beneath her, and by having conversations with her about her work and possibly terminating her), what do you think? Do you feel less comfortable about having a helper, particularly if you are at home? Just as preface, I know this was a truly insane individual and I am a working mom so having a helper is necessary if I am to keep my job. So I am not saying that I do not trust helpers or that I am going to do anything different with my life. But I read quite a few discussion forums on this in the U.S. and there is a view there since having a nanny seems like a 'rich person's' perogative, and some went so far as to take an almost serves you right attitude toward the family/mother. In Hong Kong, where almost every family I know has a helper, I thought it would be interesting to see people's views. This story has been on my mind for awhile now; it is just so tragic, and I thought it might help to see what others thought.
 
the actions of a single mentally disturbed person do not affect my view of an entire group of people, i.e. domestic helpers. if i was even slightly concerned that our nanny (who is not a DH) or our helper could possibly do anything like this, neither of them would be in my home for one second. it is a truely tragic story, heartbreaking, but it won't change anything in my life.

i think you are right in that many of the US opinions on this tragedy are colored by the fact that domestic help is a rich person's perogative in the US, most people send their children, even infants, to daycare if the mother has to work, and there is a definite negative attitute toward domestic help in the US - i personally avoid talking about or even mentioning having a nanny or helper with anyone 'back home' as they really have a negative view of people who employ domestic staff.

there are all too frequent examples of children dying or being seriously injured from neglect and abuse in daycare centres in the US but they don't seem to gain national media attention most of the time.
 
I agree with Elle. The actions of one mentally ill person would not color my views of a profession in general, or my own personal helper.
HKers are obsessed with "horror maid stories" -- just read any local newspaper. Even if there is an odd accident that happens in, say, New York's Chinatown, we hear about it. My husband just got yelled at by his local colleagues because we refuse to put in CCTV cameras and spy on our helper.
Let's be logical here. If you heard a story about a shopgirl who was mentally ill and went on a rampage, would you be frightened of all shopgirls? If you read about a student with a gun in America, would that change your views of students everywhere? Of course not.
 
I hadn't read this before but it hasn't changed my view of helpers. As the others have mentioned, extreme cases occur in all professions. One might be worried if the proportion of such things happening was high in the helper profession but I don't believe that's the case. And I am influenced by my own experience with helpers in Hong Kong, that of my friends and my observations of helpers and how they interact with the kids in their care in general. It is true that babies are a particularly vulnerable group and in that sense there is a risk leaving them with a stranger but I guess it's a calculated one and it seems that by and large it works out okay.

Given that the job of a helper is a demanding one, I try talk to my helper and watch out for signs that the workload is too much or she is stressed out and adapt accordingly.
 
it doesn't affect my opinion of helpers/nannies anymore than a deranged woman who kills her own kids affects my opinion of mothers...

seems like a silly idea to me. i mean that one crazy woman would tarnish the opinion of helpers 1/2 a world away....?
 
In the US, one profession has such a bad reputation for going crazy that they even have a new verb coined after them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postal
I wonder if those worried about their helpers going nutty also worry about going to the post office...

My personal view : I prefer not to send my helper to the post office :)
 
sorry, just re-read my post...
second paragraph doesn't read right...

what i mean is that how can your opinion of helpers in hk be changed or negatively influenced by the actions of a crazy woman 1/2 a world away... that seems a little crazy to me.
 
I do think that I'd be in denial if I didn't read that story and think "I'm also leaving my kids with a stranger - how can you REALLY be sure??" I'm sure that the mother of those kids didn't realise that her helper was a murderous psycho otherwise she wouldn't have left her kids with her.

(there, I said it!)

...

That said... I do recognise that those initial feelings are irrational and unfair if I extrapolate them to other helpers. Most helpers are themselves mothers who come to sincerely care about the kids they are looking after. For many of them, the kids are the light of their day - the joy in a difficult job away from their own families. I think that many helpers grow to sincerely love the kids they are looking after and couldn't hurt them even if other parts of their job were less than rosy. And ultimately, our kids could be harmed by millions of people in millions of ways - we'd go crazy if we fretted about every single possible way they could be injured or worse... Sometimes we just have to accept that there is a very small risk - and move on. Do what we can to prevent it... (in this situation, if there are ANY concerns, no matter how small, about the safety of my kids at the hands of my helper, the helper would go immediately even if it were incredibly inconvenient to do so).
 
i feel sad but no it doesn't change my opinion of helpers in HK. helpers in HK have a union that fights for their rights, and a govnt. that is constantly increasing their salary...we have agencies that double check things and we hire after recommendations, interviews etc. etc. there's a risk with everything... my question is whether the employer told the employee of her good intentions, i.e. do you want to make extra money by doing XYZ or was it here's an opportunity to make more money do XYZ...the two questions comes off very differently! you can never assume anything. maybe they want to make more money but their holiday is more important? i don't know...it IS very tiring taking care of 3 children ( i have three of my own, similar age too)...
 
lesliefu said:
i feel sad but no it doesn't change my opinion of helpers in HK. helpers in HK have a union that fights for their rights, and a govnt. that is constantly increasing their salary...we have agencies that double check things and we hire after recommendations, interviews etc. etc. there's a risk with everything... my question is whether the employer told the employee of her good intentions, i.e. do you want to make extra money by doing XYZ or was it here's an opportunity to make more money do XYZ...the two questions comes off very differently! you can never assume anything. maybe they want to make more money but their holiday is more important? i don't know...it IS very tiring taking care of 3 children ( i have three of my own, similar age too)...
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if the NY employer communited with the nanny why she had offered her the extra work. The New York nanny was crazy/ disturbed/ deranged/ had something seriously wrong, plain and simple. No person in their right mind stabs children, regardless of whether they have been asked to work a few extra hours that they don't want, they are tired or whatever. A sane person either says no, does the extra work unhappily, or quits. A sane person does not murder children in cold blood.
 
Thanks to those who responded so far. I wanted to add some more color into what I mostly felt conflicted about and wanted to get feedback on - first off, yes, I completely agree (and I think everyone would) that there is no question this is a crazy person, this is an isolated tragedy and that there are risks everywhere, and it is important to balance awareness of those risks with probability of them happening. And I appreciate Nicole's comment that despite knowing this, as a parent when you read this and you are not the one watching your child (whether they are in daycare, with a nanny, even in school), your instinct is to focus more on the risk rather than the probability.

However, the reason I had posted when I did is because the nanny woke up and started saying things about her discord with the family. For example, some people I know in Hong Kong really try to make their helper part of the family, talk to their helpers about their situations back home and possibly financial issues they have, etc. They take the helper on trips, or even take trips to see their helper's home in the Philippines (like the Krim family did with their nanny to the Dominican Republic), give the helper extra hours on Sundays to earn more money, and have the helper take their kids to a lot of classes, when they are very young (all similar to the Krim family). This story made me think of how the relationships we have with helpers are complicated. Is it good to blur the lines between employer/employee to 'part of the family' if the person knows they aren't really part of the family and are fireable? (Have you read, "The Help"? Similar issues in that book). Was visiting the D.R. not seen as an act of closeness but instead rich people on a holiday to see a 3rd world country and pat themselves on the back for being so open-minded? Obviously the extra hours were not taken well. And for my own situation, my helper must see the bills for my toddler's playgroup, just a couple hours 3 times a week singing songs that are almost as much as her salary for a month? I am not saying in any way this insane person was justified for her actions. But what I am trying to say is that it made me aware of the hidden resentment that might be there, very naturally, because HK is a land where people have so much, and splurge so much on their tiny kids, and then there are those here that have so little, who are away from their own kids, some of which are tiny babies, too. And to think that trying to do what you can to be more relatable actually does the opposite is eye opening and troubling. I don't know what the answer is, and I suppose it depends on who your family is and of course who your helper is. In the end, it is just tragic to see how twisted such resentment can become in an insane person and the horror of what happened as a result.
 
smglobal, i struggle with these issues all the time - kids classes being outrageously expensive compared to what our helper lives on per month, etc. We try to balance by paying her well (including cash on the side that doesn't go straight to the bank account that her family can see/ access for her salary) and giving her plenty of time off to have her own life, date, have dinner with friends, engage in recreational activities. For us, allowing her have plenty of time off to to pursue her own interests, and enough money to enjoy the time off. But we are also in the fortunate position to have a nanny to share the work so our helper doesn't need to be with our child every second that I am in the office. I also try hard to not get caught up in a 'race to the bottom' mentality - 'well, she would be worse off, have less money and work more if she was still in the Philippines' - that i hear so many people use to justify having their helpers work very long days six days per week, especially when they don't need someone around picking up after them all the time.
 
smglobal, what happened in NYC has affected me deeply and troubled me to no end. As I WOHM mom I do leave the care of my LO to others and hope and pray that they will be taken care of. About this specific case, I always take the view that whatever you encounter, there are always lessons to be learnt. These are the things I have taken away from the case:

Perceptions of the same event may differ drastically and you need to be aware of this - not just for employer/helper relations but for any types of relationships. Obviously in this case, the employers thought they paid her well, and were doing her a favour by giving her extra hours to help her out financially however she felt resentful and did not interpret the gesture favourably (an understatement for sure)

If you are having to micro manage your nanny/helper, its probably best to let them go as it's universally unpleasant for the employer and helper (with someone breathing down her neck during her working hours), and no one can perform under these circumstances

If you are wanting to let go of your staff then an element of surprise may not be unreasonable. This I never understood until this case. I always thought the local friends I had made/MIL were being extra paranoid when they told me that I should spring a termination on my helper (who I caught stealing from me) and boot her out of my house on the same day! I thought it was unreasonable, and to be honest, a little cruel BUT giving someone too many warnings/ threats (or what they perceive as a threat to their livelihood) may cause the odd person to snap/ or else do things they would not ordinarily do (steal)/ be neglectful of your child as the mental stress of losing your financial stability is one of the several things known to cause mental breakdown/marriage breakdown (other stresses include divorce/death of spouse/child).

Finally, as a general observation, the vitriol reserved for this mom on forums in the States is unbelievable. Many are saying she brought it on herself for having a nanny and that 'she should have raised the children herself'. This perplexes and bothers me to no end. For some, they have to have a nanny because they have to work, for others, even if you are a SAHM there will be occasions when you need someone to watch over the children. I think it is totally unreasonable to think a mom can not leave her children for any amount of time. I am glad that in HK we don't have these sorts of posts. No matter if the mother was having her nails done every day nothing she could do would justify someone doing that to her children.

Anyway my two cents, a very troubling and disturbing case.
 
Also re: being part of the family, I never tell my helpers that they are part of my family, because it's not true for me. That's not to say that I don't treat them well or that I don't care about them but as far as being part of my family, well I think telling them that breeds all sorts of intimacies and expectations that I'd prefer not to go down that route. Moreover, I would think that it would be pretty clear to the helper that they are expected to do paid work and follow my instructions which is not how other members of my family operate.

-forgot to add this in during my last post, thinking is soooooooo fragmented when the LO are underfoot and you are trying to think!
 
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