erina320
Registered User
Yes my children have light curly hair and blue eyes.
Locals snapping pictures of my children?
- Thread starter erina320
- Start date
Yes my children have light curly hair and blue eyes.
nicolejoy
Registered User
My kids also are mixed - and I noticed earlier in the thread that others who were posting (people I've met IRL) about this situation also have mixed kids.
My older daughter is dark hair and dark eyes (not AS dark as 100% Chinese though) but her skin is very pale like mine. Both of my girls have "big eyes" with "double eyelids" that many Chinese tell me are beautiful characteristics. Westerners don't think twice about eyelids
I was talking to a Chinese friend about why people would take photos of my daughter and not hers who is also gorgeous and 100% Chinese. Personally I don't think that my daughter is THAT different looking - but my friend said that to Chinese, she was very different and has many characteristics (eye shape and skin tone) that Chinese find enviable.
howardcoombs
Registered User
My kids are western looking. One is very tall, one is a blonde and the other one has very big eyes. They've always been photographed, touched, pinched and caressed; ever since I can remember taking them to Ocean Park.
They used to hate the attention, but they got used to it; and ever since they figured out how to take advantage of it (asking for sweets etc), they loved it.
I'm also a bit unusual in that I'm over 6'5" and hefty. I dont get too many photos in Hong Kong, but whenever I travel into China I get photographed multiple times a day; usually by much smaller people wanting to stand next to me.
They used to hate the attention, but they got used to it; and ever since they figured out how to take advantage of it (asking for sweets etc), they loved it.
I'm also a bit unusual in that I'm over 6'5" and hefty. I dont get too many photos in Hong Kong, but whenever I travel into China I get photographed multiple times a day; usually by much smaller people wanting to stand next to me.
fennho
Registered User
it's funny becos from the way i look at it, i dont think it's a cultural thing that the mainlanders like to take pics of kids. Becos i recently went to shanghai with my girl (who's 3) and she's 100% chinese and LOOK chinese and the shanghainese there were commenting how cute she is and proceeded to take pics too. I'm a little squirmy of people taking pics of her too (due to my overactive imagination) but i fig pics are okay, so i put my foot down when it's vid they're taking instead of pics.
I also have had experiences where a caucasian stopped to take pics of my girl so i guess this pic taking thing goes both ways.
I also have had experiences where a caucasian stopped to take pics of my girl so i guess this pic taking thing goes both ways.
nicolejoy
Registered User
Hmm, well then maybe my mixed kids are just not cute enough to photograph, so for those who get constantly harassed, since it seems the conclusion is that there is no way to really avoid it, consider yourselves lucky to have adorable children as a trade-off.
I don't think so! It could be many other factors as well, such as places we go, how closely supervised our kids are, how "different" they look (I know some mixed kids who could pass for 100% Chinese, others who could pass for 100% Western)... and MANY MANY other factors
I think the Chinese just like to take photos of everything, and that's combined with a lack of understanding about other cultures' comfort levels when it comes to personal space and privacy.
It's not just babies. I had a friend who was a tall, black man living in China -- and tour groups from the provinces were always pointing, yelling "look! a black person!" and then making him pose for photos.
It's not just babies. I had a friend who was a tall, black man living in China -- and tour groups from the provinces were always pointing, yelling "look! a black person!" and then making him pose for photos.
Gataloca
Registered User
It is not only a Chinese thing... everybody can have a lack of understanding about people "comfort levels when it comes to personal space and privacy" because they don't think that the other party might mind.
Take for example this thread from another forum which I used to read when I was pregnant... Having the bump been touch by strangers seems to be a common issue, but as they are not expats, they don't bring up the "cultural" thing there:
http://www.babyandbump.com/pregnancy-second-trimester/641790-wtf-dont-touch-bump.html
howardcoombs
Registered User
Baby bumps : brought smile to my face as you are ofcourse right. Some love it, some hate it; but this is pretty mixed across all cultures.
The photo issue is a lot more divisive because of the fact, just a generation ago, everyone took photos with no worries.
Since then, mostly in the past 10 years, NorthAmerica and UK (and very little bit Europe) have gotten caught up with hysteria while the rest of the world has carried on with photography as nothing has changed.
They hysteria I'm referring to is the "someone took a picture of a child, must be a peado or going to spread it to bunch of paedos on the internet". Forget strangers, parents and grandparents are no longer able to take pictures of their brood without getting banned and hassled. Cant take pictures at the mall, cant take pictures at swim meets, cant take pictures at school plays, cant take pictures at the playground. *arrgghh*
(There are also offshots of this that have been voiced in this thread. "Dont touch my baby, you must be a paedo", "Dont go near my baby, you have germs" and other similar fears.)
Such fears dont exist in many parts of the world and they dont exist in China. Combine that with the curiosity Chinese have with little ones that look different, and we have the clash of cultures.
BTW: I was in Shenzhen airport yesterday on my way to northern China. Out of nowhere, 3 guys showed up with big grins and 1 camera between them. First they started snapping pictures of me and after a few (not before) they asked to pose with me, one at a time, 2 at a time and finally 3 of them together with me. It was mildly annoying as I was trying to get to my gate but cute enough I guess. It didnt bother me and it would not have if it was one of my kids. Harmless curiosity...
The photo issue is a lot more divisive because of the fact, just a generation ago, everyone took photos with no worries.
Since then, mostly in the past 10 years, NorthAmerica and UK (and very little bit Europe) have gotten caught up with hysteria while the rest of the world has carried on with photography as nothing has changed.
They hysteria I'm referring to is the "someone took a picture of a child, must be a peado or going to spread it to bunch of paedos on the internet". Forget strangers, parents and grandparents are no longer able to take pictures of their brood without getting banned and hassled. Cant take pictures at the mall, cant take pictures at swim meets, cant take pictures at school plays, cant take pictures at the playground. *arrgghh*
(There are also offshots of this that have been voiced in this thread. "Dont touch my baby, you must be a paedo", "Dont go near my baby, you have germs" and other similar fears.)
Such fears dont exist in many parts of the world and they dont exist in China. Combine that with the curiosity Chinese have with little ones that look different, and we have the clash of cultures.
BTW: I was in Shenzhen airport yesterday on my way to northern China. Out of nowhere, 3 guys showed up with big grins and 1 camera between them. First they started snapping pictures of me and after a few (not before) they asked to pose with me, one at a time, 2 at a time and finally 3 of them together with me. It was mildly annoying as I was trying to get to my gate but cute enough I guess. It didnt bother me and it would not have if it was one of my kids. Harmless curiosity...
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Howard -- I don't think it's hysteria. OK, maybe for some people, but not for most.
Mainland Chinese really do have a different sense of personal space --- and I say this as a Chinese person. Whether it's shoving you out of the way on a sidewalk, or reaching over to grab your newspaper out of your airplane seat, or sticking a camera literally two feet away from your face -- it's different even to Hong Kong, and different to most places in the world.
I always take photos when I travel -- and I don't think there's anything wrong if there's a family with kids in the background in a public space, like a park, that I am photographing.
But if I'm going to touch or go close up to someone's children (or even an adult), I ask first. Even if I don't speak the language, I will make eye contact and gesture at my camera if I'm going to zoom in on a street vendor, a local family, or whatever.
I've seen Chinese tourists pointing at, yelling at and grabbing at people's kids, or picking them out without even making eye contact with the parents. There is some lack of social etiquette -- they often don't smile or approach in a friendly way. It can be quite abrupt. Sometimes it's during rather private times, like when a family is sitting down to dinner at a restaurant. Of course, not all mainland Chinese are like this -- but if you spend much time in the more touristy parts of Kowloon, it is definitely a trend.
I don't know if I'd always see that as harmless curiosity, even if there was no ill intent.
Mainland Chinese really do have a different sense of personal space --- and I say this as a Chinese person. Whether it's shoving you out of the way on a sidewalk, or reaching over to grab your newspaper out of your airplane seat, or sticking a camera literally two feet away from your face -- it's different even to Hong Kong, and different to most places in the world.
I always take photos when I travel -- and I don't think there's anything wrong if there's a family with kids in the background in a public space, like a park, that I am photographing.
But if I'm going to touch or go close up to someone's children (or even an adult), I ask first. Even if I don't speak the language, I will make eye contact and gesture at my camera if I'm going to zoom in on a street vendor, a local family, or whatever.
I've seen Chinese tourists pointing at, yelling at and grabbing at people's kids, or picking them out without even making eye contact with the parents. There is some lack of social etiquette -- they often don't smile or approach in a friendly way. It can be quite abrupt. Sometimes it's during rather private times, like when a family is sitting down to dinner at a restaurant. Of course, not all mainland Chinese are like this -- but if you spend much time in the more touristy parts of Kowloon, it is definitely a trend.
I don't know if I'd always see that as harmless curiosity, even if there was no ill intent.
To balance out all the negative stereotypes of mainland Chinese on here (and not saying people's experiences are not accurate at all, but of course they are still stereotypes), I wanted to relay an experience I had. During my pregnancy I have noticed that it is not that common for someone to get up and give me a seat on the MTR. I was traveling during the normal work hours, so these are able bodied professional men and women (western and local HK Chinese), and they would rarely if ever get up. Sometimes it was obvious they saw me and would pretend not to by staring down at a cell phone or blackberry. One day on a particularly uncomfortable ride there was a mainland Chinese man, wife and their daughter who clearly were visiting HK to check out Disneyland (the daughter had the mickey ears on). The husband took a look at me and smiled and stood up to offer his seat next to his wife and kid. I thanked them and they said, not at all, this is the right thing to do.
howardcoombs
Registered User
Lets split the difference and call it "many", ok ?
For those who are not paranoid and/or hysterical, they see "different" as you note below:
I agree with you 100%. They are different. They have their own customs and ways of doing things and many times, this clashes with sensibilities of non mainland Chinese people. They smoke and honk horns and hork up and spit and stare and touch and (I could go on and on)....
This is the part I take issue with.
Just because they are different, different than yours and my culture, does not make them bad/wrong/harmful.
Mainland is not unique in this position.
You should listen to how:
- Americans talk about Mexicans
- Europeans talk about Americans
- French talk about the British
- Brits talk about the Germans
etc etc etc
Howard -- None of us are here to debate the danger of stereotypes in general all over the world.
The thread is about a specific issue in Hong Kong: mainland Chinese tourists doing things that make people -- particularly young children and their parents -- uncomfortable.
I'm not sure what you mean by "my culture." I am Chinese. I have family on both sides of the border. Going up unannounced to a stranger's child and taking photos / touching / picking up without permission is bad behavior anywhere -- whether you're from China or Chile. If you walked up to a family on a crowded Beijing street and started touching and photographing a baby without permission, that Chinese parent would be upset, too.
I'm pretty easy-going, but this kind of behavior can be potentially dangerous. I saw a Chinese couple pick up a little Western girl at the airport and try to carry her away to the other side of the lounge -- the parents were furious. How are they to know if you're a Chinese tourist who just wants a photo, or a kidnapper?
Cultural differences or not, it's not right to barge up to strangers' kids and touch them or stick cameras in their faces with no warning. While staring, pointing and crowding around children is less alarming, it's still rude. Some young kids are afraid of strangers. Some families are quite private.
There are some universal codes of etiquette -- and mainlanders should not be exempt just because they're from China.
In the example you site, some tourists asked you -- an adult who can take care of himself -- to pose, and you said yes. There's nothing wrong with that.
Obviously, I'm not talking about casual travel photography, or grandma taking snapshots at a school play. I don't know what part of town you live in, but if you go to some areas of Kowloon with large numbers of Chinese tourists / recent immigrants, there is some behavior that is not very good at all.
The thread is about a specific issue in Hong Kong: mainland Chinese tourists doing things that make people -- particularly young children and their parents -- uncomfortable.
I'm not sure what you mean by "my culture." I am Chinese. I have family on both sides of the border. Going up unannounced to a stranger's child and taking photos / touching / picking up without permission is bad behavior anywhere -- whether you're from China or Chile. If you walked up to a family on a crowded Beijing street and started touching and photographing a baby without permission, that Chinese parent would be upset, too.
I'm pretty easy-going, but this kind of behavior can be potentially dangerous. I saw a Chinese couple pick up a little Western girl at the airport and try to carry her away to the other side of the lounge -- the parents were furious. How are they to know if you're a Chinese tourist who just wants a photo, or a kidnapper?
Cultural differences or not, it's not right to barge up to strangers' kids and touch them or stick cameras in their faces with no warning. While staring, pointing and crowding around children is less alarming, it's still rude. Some young kids are afraid of strangers. Some families are quite private.
There are some universal codes of etiquette -- and mainlanders should not be exempt just because they're from China.
In the example you site, some tourists asked you -- an adult who can take care of himself -- to pose, and you said yes. There's nothing wrong with that.
Obviously, I'm not talking about casual travel photography, or grandma taking snapshots at a school play. I don't know what part of town you live in, but if you go to some areas of Kowloon with large numbers of Chinese tourists / recent immigrants, there is some behavior that is not very good at all.
howardcoombs
Registered User
No such universal code exists.
Trying to enforce what you believe to be right/good/best upon a culture that is unfamiliar with that concepts will only result in frustration.
It's quite annoying to see a stranger taking photos of your child. If I were you I wouldn't mind being offensive to such people. You read so many stories on the internet nowdays that you can't help feeling petrified by the sheer thought that something similar could happen to you