Helper home leave/pregnancy etc.

F

forever

Banned
My helper has asked for 3 weeks off to go back to the Philippines to visit her husband. She's young and I think there's a distinct possibility she may get pregnant. I understand of course that they have their own life and family etc., but I have a toddler and a baby and am working full time so cannot imagine having my sole helper getting pregnant and taking maternity leave (all paid, right?).

Someone told me that I could ask her to get a shot before she leaves so that she won't get pregnant. This sounds a bit shocking to me--does anyone know if this is commonly done? My helper is in her 20s and already has a child, so I'd like to think she should not be in any hurry to have another one (maybe this is just the selfish part of me talking).

I wonder if anyone has encountered this delicate issue before and what did you do about it? I honestly would rather hire a new helper now than have to deal with a pregnant helper, take care of two small kids while working full time. I don't want to sound horribly mean or anything but I'm just thinking about the various possibilities and what I can do now to make everyone happy.

Any helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Would you consider it acceptable for your helper to ask you to have a shot to prevent pregnancy as she already had a full work load with taking care of your two small children? Or would it be Ok for your boss in work to ask you to have it as they would rather not pay you maternity leave?
 
AmyH said:
Would you consider it acceptable for your helper to ask you to have a shot to prevent pregnancy as she already had a full work load with taking care of your two small children? Or would it be Ok for your boss in work to ask you to have it as they would rather not pay you maternity leave?
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With all due respect, comments such as yours are pointless. I hire a helper because I cannot do without the help, so if it is likely that my helper will be out of work for several months, I need to know what I can do. That's all. I hope you are able to understand.
 
Is she catholic? Because depo would be against her religion, not to mention the myriad of other reasons to not control another's reproductive choice.
 
Forever -- What you describe is really unethical. Amy H might be harsh, but she's right.
We all understand why you hire a helper -- for the same reason we do. We know that having a pregnant helper is a big pain in the ***. None of us want that.

But we take risks and responsibilities when we hire someone -- the same way my company took a "risk" that they would have to hire a replacement for me, pay for medical insurance for me, and pay my 10-weeks maternity, too.

You can't just randomly threaten to sterilize someone for one month for your convenience.

You're posting on a parenting website. Don't forget that your helper is also a fellow woman, mother and person.
She is also an employee, just like any other employee.
Would you accept any other company or job that forced its female employees to have injections that prevented them from reproducing against their will?
Would you accept this, if it was done to a Hong Kong or Western professional, instead of a poor domestic helper?

I wonder if it's legal. It's illegal in HK to discriminate someone on grounds of pregnancy or "family status".

Anyway, you're worrying prematurely. She's NOT actually pregnant, right? She just wants to go home to see her family, and happens to be of child-bearing age. So she MIGHT get pregnant, the same way that any woman her age MIGHT get pregnant, any month, if she has a husband or boyfriend. What are you going to do? Forever deny her the right to see her husband?

You should have read the maternity leave details on the contract before you signed it. If you were really concerned, you should have hired an older woman. We turned down a newly married woman in her early 20s, and hired a slightly older woman who already has a school-aged child. OK, she still might get pregnant, but the chances are lower.

The best you can do is try to talk to her -- to see if she's planning on getting pregnant. Who knows? Maybe she's been on the Pill all these years and you've been worrying for nothing?

But it would be morally awful -- and, I wonder, borderline illegal -- to force someone to undergo such medical treatment against their will.
 
I think people are being a little harsh here. Forever just raised the issue and asked whether asking your helper to take a shot is commonly done, and did mention that she found it quite shocking herself.

Forever - I think it is a personal thing, to be honest. I have no problem with taking contraception (I am also catholic) and did for a long time. I took it because having a child would interfere with my plans at the time - namely getting ahead in my career. Likewise, helpers have their own plans and for some of them getting pregnant would also be a disaster. My helper is pregnant and it has really turned her life upside down because financially, she needed to work for at least another 1.5 contracts and her husband needed to work at least another 2. Now she won't be able to because she doesn't want to leave her baby again (already left one at home), and her husband will find it hard to get a job without her because his English is pretty poor. She got pregnant right at the beginning of her first contract with me; she was using contraception, just condoms which she thought were fail-safe. She would have used stronger protection had she realised she would get pregnant, but she isn't that educated about contraception.

So maybe talk to your helper and express your fears. Maybe getting pregnant would be a disaster for her too, who knows. If it would be, then maybe explain different contraceptive options to her. If she is open to contraception and really does not want to get pregnant then she may well welcome the advice.

These people are so poor and rely so heavily on working here. It is a real shame when their lives/chances are so badly affected because they are ignorant about contraception.
 
Liquorice said:
I think people are being a little harsh here. Forever just raised the issue and asked whether asking your helper to take a shot is commonly done, and did mention that she found it quite shocking herself.
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My post might have seemed a bit harsh so the direct answer is that there is absolutely nothing that you can do to prevent your helper from getting pregnant as it is her right as a human being to make that decision for herself. I am not even sure that you can terminate her contract because you think she might get pregnant.
 
Your concerns as an employer are perfectly valid but there is no easy solution. If she falls pregnant, either you keep her or you find a way to get rid of her, legally or otherwise.

Otherwise you could move to Singapore. Foreign domestic helpers there automatically lose their working visas and get deported the minute they fall pregnant. Humane or not? you decide.

I am not siding with your helper but I know the dilemma both as an employee and employer of a maid. I was 4 months pregnant when I was offered a job with a HK employer. I disclosed to them that I was pregnant. They agreed to hire me anyway. I joined them when 7 months pregnant, but was not entitled to maternity benefits.
 
AmyH said:
I am not even sure that you can terminate her contract because you think she might get pregnant.
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No, technically you can't otherwise you might run into problems with the Equal Opportunities Commission and their discrimination ordinance. But of course this is just academic really, because if you did terminate your helper because you were worried she might get pregnant, you just wouldn't say that was the reason.

The pregnancy of helpers is such a difficult situation, and one where the law is overwhelmingly in favour of the helper. I have had no end of problems with my sitatuation and it has threatened, in the past, to really screw up my own life. I have spoken so many times with the labour department and immigration and I have pretty much no rights.

I completely understand the point of the law that prevents terminating a pregnant helper and I support ensuring she doesn't lose out financially, but I believe the law should be revised to allow employers to pay full salary and maternity leave and for the helper to go home. I offered my helper almost $32,000 to go home in August - that is 7 months salary / full salary and maternity - but she declined because she wanted to stay here so that she can work illegally once the baby is born. Ironic that I am not legally allowed to prevent this....

So I am forced to keep her in my house, look after her if she has complications, and have a newborn baby in my house for 10 weeks, all across a period of intense study for me that I gave my job up for and cannot postpone for another year.

I can then terminate her contract the day after she comes off maternity leave, and she will have to go home (providing she hasn't found someone to sponser her and her baby illegally), with no more money than she would have had. The only difference is that I have failed my exams because I can't study so my future is potentially buggered.

An endless headache...
 
Liquorice -- I don't think people are being hard on her because they are against contraception or birth-control education in general. Of course those are good things. (I'm not religious at all myself, and spent many years on the pill. I think everyone should be able to have birth control of they want).

People are critical of the idea of an employer forcing -- either directly or indirectly -- someone to take contraception against their will. There's a huge difference.

If I wanted to have a child -- but I was hard up for money, and knew that my boss wanted to force me to take the pill -- that would lead to a serious ethical dilemma.

Just talking to her helper would be best. But not if she's going to do it with the attitude she takes here -- which hints that she would fire someone because they MIGHT get pregnant just because they want to visit their husband.
 
As for Singapore -- I think it's awful that FDHs get deported immediately just bc they go through the natural process of getting pregnant. Getting pregnant is not a crime.

Clearly it's immoral -- and, to boot, it discriminates based on nationality and class. No American woman expat in Singapore would lose her visa because she decided to have a child with her husband. But an Indonesian maid would.

But, of course, we are not in Singapore.
 
I would put away the idea about 'asking' the helper to take a depo injection to prevent pregnancy. Unfortunately there is a significant power difference here and even though you mean to offer it to her as a choice it is likely she construes it as a must. I would just say to her that if she ever needs to talk to you about anything that she can approach you, and suggest a range of topics like the stock market (if you know anything about this that is!), term deposit rates, any illnesses she is experiencing, contraception ect and leave it at that.
I agree with the poster who suggests that if you are worried about a pregnant helper than hire an older one. Unfortunately as inconvenient as pregnancy is both in our homes with helpers and in the office, it is a woman's right and that goes for helpers as well as all working expats and locals. Somehow, asking someone to temporarily sterilise themselves, especially in light of the power differential, does not sit right with me.
 
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