I am just amazed at the tremendous pressure on these little children to be "perfect." I was just reading an article about how some children don't get into schools over the smallest things! Kids are kids and yes they need disaplined and need to be respectful and such. But geeze to be rejected from a school from a hour or so assessment of the child, how badly these children must feel (and parents too).
Rejected by KJS: what to do now
- Thread starter rs2000
- Start date
shwetakhanna
Registered User
Our LO got rejected in an Int'l KG because they found her to be over active, and they wanted more disciplined ans structured kids. So i think all the schools have their own criteria for selection.
I am just not too sure about what to do now. I dont want to send her to a local school which does not have English as Medium of Instruction. we are not too sure about whether we are going to live her long term so I really want her to study in an EMI school.
from tung chung, there arent many options for this. I hope something better happens soon.
from tung chung, there arent many options for this. I hope something better happens soon.
@carang, we are from India and mother tongue is Hindi
we arent too sure about the long term prospects of living in HK and hence really want the kid to goto an EMI school. we live in Tung Chung and own an apartment here. I really like the area and dont want to move to a smaller & more expensive apartment in other areas.
Please let the valuable suggestions coming...........
i am just not able to think about anything else apart from schooling............ :-(
thanks a lot
we arent too sure about the long term prospects of living in HK and hence really want the kid to goto an EMI school. we live in Tung Chung and own an apartment here. I really like the area and dont want to move to a smaller & more expensive apartment in other areas.
Please let the valuable suggestions coming...........
i am just not able to think about anything else apart from schooling............ :-(
thanks a lot
carang
Registered User
there are a LOT of indians that go through the local system, even the cantonese medium of instruction! there is actually an indian news reporter on the cantonese channel! to me, language is never something to "turn down". i think it is such an opportunity that so many people miss out on. i have heard so many stories of people coming for one contract only to find themselves still here 20 years later! i, myself, only came for a week-long holiday in 1995 and never left! i'm very glad that we've chosen the route that we have. it will open doors for my children for their entire lives. we still have the option down the road to move to an international school if we find the local schools too difficult or not to our liking.
Twinsmammie
Registered User
You can consider PLK Camoes Tan Siu Lin primary school in Olympia - a DSS school using EMI (http://www.plkctslps.edu.hk). It caters both local and non chinese students. There's an open day on 22nd April.
The thing is, when children go for interviews at schools, the school only has a very limited time to make a "snap judgment" about that child and his or her language ability. Although your daughter may be completely comfortable speaking to you in English at home and to you her level is satisfactory--the standard is probably set very, very high at these interviews--the interviewers are likely native-speakers themselves, right? Basically, they are waiting for your child to "mess up" so they can have an easier time weeding out students so they can make decisions.
Your child's first language is not English, right? Although she may speak English quite a lot and quite well at home you have to remember she is competing with children who speak English as their native language who not only can communicate in English but can do so extremely well--she is being judged by this standard.
Also, the ESF schools originally were designed for children who do not speak any Chinese (am I right in assuming that your first language is Chinese?)--these schools were designed to cater to children who really do not speak Cantonese so they don't have the option of the local schools. Over the years, I think ESF has started to accept students regardless of whether or not they could actually be enrolled in a local school (i.e. able to speak Cantonese as well as English). This is actually a big issue for a lot of foreigners living in Hong Kong here who were recruited to work for the government (school teachers) who have no choices for sending their children to school--many come here with children who are older who speak absolutely no Cantonese and the local schools refuse to accept their children (because many local schools really can't or won't cope with teaching foreign children) and they are left with no options for school because there just aren't any spaces in ESF and a lot of the spaces that could go to kids who only speak English are awarded to children who could cope in a local school because of their Cantonese ability. This is a huge issue that the teachers in HK are lobbying the government about right now.
Also, I realize your goal is for your daughter to attend an ESF school or an international school but what is your reasoning for this? As far as Delia goes--this entire organization has a very good reputation. I've worked with Delia secondary schools and all were top-notch. Even "brand name" and "famous" schools like you want to send your child to--the international ones--that have great reputations aren't always the best fit for every child. Sometimes I think there is a lot of "brand obsession" with schools in Hong Kong and I don't really understand it.
I also would prefer to send my K1 student to an international school for primary school because from my experience, I agree with and appreciate the different teaching style offered in international schools (or ESF schools etc.) as compared with the local curriculum (more of a process learning approach instead of a product learning approach). English is my first language and I am much more on board with the "western" curriculum taught in these schools.
However, I have an open mind and if I were to find a local primary school that could offer something somewhat similar for my son (and they do exist in Hong Kong--you just have to look a little bit--not just look at international and ESF schools and assume they are the only "good" ones out there) I would go that route and not stress myself out over getting him into the "name brand" school.
Even for a foreigner like me whose child does speak English fluently (as well as Cantonese fluently as that's my husband's first language--he speaks so well in both now that he can translate between each language for me and often does--and he's 3-years-old!) the prospects of getting into either an ESF school or a international school are not high. And if we by some odd chance did get in, how in the world would we afford to go there? (Especially with all the drama ESF has turned up in the last year over fees?! Have you been reading the news about this organization?! The government refused to even raise how much money the subsidize for them because they have shown they can't explain where the money goes! Not exactly a great public image they're presenting lately!)
For now, my son attends a local kindergarten that has adapted its program so that it runs a lot like a international kindergarten--and it's cheap for us, near our house and a very wonderful learning environment. My son is now speaking English, Cantonese and Putonghua and I pay $800 HKD/month for this school! Oh, and they get to grow their own vegetables at school in a garden which my son just loves! Just commented to my husband tonight about how happy I am that our son can attend this school. In my opinion, with all things considered, this local school is every bit as good as an ESF or international school and by sending my son there, I save a TON of money and stress.
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Totally agree. Chinese is going to be the next big world language. Your child will always have the chance to speak English and learn English (especially as it is one of the two official national languages of your home country) but when will she get a chance to really learn Chinese by immersion--especially if you do leave Hong Kong. I am a primary school teacher and I teach children not only from Hong Kong but also from Pakistan, Nepal, India and Mainland China. It's amazing the progress these children make in such a short time learning both Cantonese and English and they fit perfectly into our local school--especially the young ones--they just pick up languages like a sponge--the P1 students who last September could not speak a word of Cantonese, Mandarin or English are now communicating quite well in at least two of the three languages! Your daughter already has an advantage in that she speaks English. Also, remember that English language learning, even in the CMI schools takes up a considerable portion of the curriculum so even in a local school your daughter will learn English well.
TheQuasimother
Registered User
About such schools like the PLKCamoes, bear in mind that the applicant numbers will be large too. If there is a large number of applicants from a specific group, not all will get in. It's a DSS not a local government school. So, don't put your eggs in one basket as you did with ESF. It is no easier to get into PLK than it is to get into ESF. In general, if schools can diversify their non-native English speaking population, they will. In HK, it's quite the norm to impose an unofficial "quota" on applicants. As long as they have tested your child fairly during the interview, unlike the child mentioned in "Minority Report", they can pick and choose the kids they let in.
It will be another ESF though, there are feeder kindergartens. It is a DSS under the Po Leung Kok umbrella and a lot of parents put their kids in a local brand name kindergarten to get them there e.g. Learning Habitat, PIPS, ... .
Just make sure your eggs are not in one singular basket as the steps you have taken to ensure that your child secured a place at KJS (except to buy a home in Tung Chung) has not been about providing the best opportunities to allow for easy access to such an oversubscribed school. I think I said it before, Sun Island, is as local as can be, it is not a school that has an international outlook/approach like DMK/Sunshine House. There is nothing wrong with a local kindergarten, just don't expect to jump from a local school to an oversubscribed DSS/ESF/International brand name school.
Just so you know how competitive it is, currently, even Cat. 1 native English speakers, are on a waitlist to get into ESF(TY) and have to place their children in local kindergartens like DMK/Sunshine House, so you can imagine how bad it is in 2 years, when applications for KJS open for all kids. I'd say parents who are really keen on the ESF/good DSS route, not fluff around with their kindergarten choices.
Otherwise, take the approach of Cara and Thanka2, they made their decisions wisely and they are in enviable positions as their kids will get a priority into all their local primary school of choice (which given how expensive international school fees are right now, the government is expecting a huge influx and applications into such schools even from native English speakers).
Note to Thanka2: I have been told by a colleague that there is now a new local-international primary school in South Yuen Long. Will ask my colleague for the details on Monday and post it here for other parents to know too!
The bottom line is, if you have chosen a VERY local school for kindergarten, expect local options. It is an exception to the norm if someone from a VERY LOCAL kindergarten would get into any oversubscribed school.
It will be another ESF though, there are feeder kindergartens. It is a DSS under the Po Leung Kok umbrella and a lot of parents put their kids in a local brand name kindergarten to get them there e.g. Learning Habitat, PIPS, ... .
Just make sure your eggs are not in one singular basket as the steps you have taken to ensure that your child secured a place at KJS (except to buy a home in Tung Chung) has not been about providing the best opportunities to allow for easy access to such an oversubscribed school. I think I said it before, Sun Island, is as local as can be, it is not a school that has an international outlook/approach like DMK/Sunshine House. There is nothing wrong with a local kindergarten, just don't expect to jump from a local school to an oversubscribed DSS/ESF/International brand name school.
Just so you know how competitive it is, currently, even Cat. 1 native English speakers, are on a waitlist to get into ESF(TY) and have to place their children in local kindergartens like DMK/Sunshine House, so you can imagine how bad it is in 2 years, when applications for KJS open for all kids. I'd say parents who are really keen on the ESF/good DSS route, not fluff around with their kindergarten choices.
Otherwise, take the approach of Cara and Thanka2, they made their decisions wisely and they are in enviable positions as their kids will get a priority into all their local primary school of choice (which given how expensive international school fees are right now, the government is expecting a huge influx and applications into such schools even from native English speakers).
Note to Thanka2: I have been told by a colleague that there is now a new local-international primary school in South Yuen Long. Will ask my colleague for the details on Monday and post it here for other parents to know too!
The bottom line is, if you have chosen a VERY local school for kindergarten, expect local options. It is an exception to the norm if someone from a VERY LOCAL kindergarten would get into any oversubscribed school.
Hi all,
Thanks again for the inputs. when we chose sunisland it was a combination of easy access from home and the budget we had. now that we can afford an ESF school, the problem is that we were unable to secure a seat.
Regarding Sun Island, i realize it is a local kindergarten but a lot of x-students I know goto esf schools from there. So i had hope we will be able to do the same too. and then the we were also thinking to move to Singapore and in all that confusion, did not apply to many places.
now i have checked and most places are filled. cant imagine how difficult it is for parents here to get decent education for the kids.
i am going to explore local schools options too. meanwhile if there are some other ideas, please share with me
thanks!
Thanks again for the inputs. when we chose sunisland it was a combination of easy access from home and the budget we had. now that we can afford an ESF school, the problem is that we were unable to secure a seat.
Regarding Sun Island, i realize it is a local kindergarten but a lot of x-students I know goto esf schools from there. So i had hope we will be able to do the same too. and then the we were also thinking to move to Singapore and in all that confusion, did not apply to many places.
now i have checked and most places are filled. cant imagine how difficult it is for parents here to get decent education for the kids.
i am going to explore local schools options too. meanwhile if there are some other ideas, please share with me
thanks!
Are you referring to St. Lorraine's International Kindergarten in Yuen Long? If so, I do know of one child who attends there and it seems to be going well for them. We also looked into St. Lorraine's but decided against it although my son likely would have gotten in.
We live near Yuen Long but we don't live in Yuen Long and we found a local kindergarten that is much closer to us and which we felt was just as suitable for my son. I'm not sure what is meant by "VERY local" but I think that our little local kindergarten does offer the best of both worlds for my son at this point.
While, of course, I'd love the option of sending my son to an ESF or International School later on, I am also realistic but things change and sometimes there are ways to work things out in the end. I personally know people who seem to have very "good luck" with schools and even an American family whose two children were given a full-ride scholarship to the Norwegian International School in Tai Po--they didn't get wait-listed either.
I'm just not up for stressing myself over it at this point when we aren't even certain we'll be here in HK when he starts primary school. If we are, I teach at a local primary school that is in our village and would feel confident sending him to this school as well. I figure that a local education at a decent school can do nothing but enrich his life further and offer him something that can't be replicated elsewhere.
To rs2000
You have obviously been placed in Category 2 with ESF. The current situation indicates virtually no Category 2s will get a place in ESF in Years 1, 2 or 3.
Siblings will always take precedence, only Corporate Surety will trump siblings.
There is quite a difference between very local, local, western-local and western kindergartens. They are usually obvious through their rigidity in learning, lack of scope and sequence of learning skills and concepts, some untrained 'teachers', few structured play activities, English learned lacks relevance to everyday application and practise.
ESF does not have stringent English tests. The interview teachers are attuned to how well a student can manipulate English to simple situations, contexts and conversations. Open-ended questions such as "Tell me about ......" will allow a student to show how well they can provide meaningful vocabulary. This is so different to many local kindergartens where students are required to study anticipated questions and have ready-made, rote-learned responses.
So now you have to find a local school that provides enough English for you to have knowledge of its expectations, homework and class routine requirements.
I would also urge you to check out some 2nd tier international schools - Kingston, Delia, ICS
Whilst I agree with Cara that Chinese is definitely the language of the future, along with English, Cantonese is not - and this is the main language of instruction in Hong Kong local schools.
Good luck!
You have obviously been placed in Category 2 with ESF. The current situation indicates virtually no Category 2s will get a place in ESF in Years 1, 2 or 3.
Siblings will always take precedence, only Corporate Surety will trump siblings.
There is quite a difference between very local, local, western-local and western kindergartens. They are usually obvious through their rigidity in learning, lack of scope and sequence of learning skills and concepts, some untrained 'teachers', few structured play activities, English learned lacks relevance to everyday application and practise.
ESF does not have stringent English tests. The interview teachers are attuned to how well a student can manipulate English to simple situations, contexts and conversations. Open-ended questions such as "Tell me about ......" will allow a student to show how well they can provide meaningful vocabulary. This is so different to many local kindergartens where students are required to study anticipated questions and have ready-made, rote-learned responses.
So now you have to find a local school that provides enough English for you to have knowledge of its expectations, homework and class routine requirements.
I would also urge you to check out some 2nd tier international schools - Kingston, Delia, ICS
Whilst I agree with Cara that Chinese is definitely the language of the future, along with English, Cantonese is not - and this is the main language of instruction in Hong Kong local schools.
Good luck!
carang
Registered User
elise:
ummm...i NEVER said that chinese was the language of the future. my childre learn cantonese because (1) we live in hk, (2) their paternal grandparents only speak cantonese and (3) ANY language will only open doors, never shut them. i agree that mandarin would be more beneficial in the long-run. please do not put words in my mouth.
also, NOT all local schools only use cantonese. at the school that my son will attend in september it works like this:
chinese language (parents have the choice between cantonese and mandarin)
maths (cantonese or english)
other subjects: english
it seems to me that you don't have much experience of the local school system and have made some huge general assumptions about what is on offer. best bet would be to actually read up on the system and check out some of the schools that are there for non-chinese speaking students.
i think that so many expats miss out on such a great opportunity due to false assumptions or hearsay. it's too bad, really.
ummm...i NEVER said that chinese was the language of the future. my childre learn cantonese because (1) we live in hk, (2) their paternal grandparents only speak cantonese and (3) ANY language will only open doors, never shut them. i agree that mandarin would be more beneficial in the long-run. please do not put words in my mouth.
also, NOT all local schools only use cantonese. at the school that my son will attend in september it works like this:
chinese language (parents have the choice between cantonese and mandarin)
maths (cantonese or english)
other subjects: english
it seems to me that you don't have much experience of the local school system and have made some huge general assumptions about what is on offer. best bet would be to actually read up on the system and check out some of the schools that are there for non-chinese speaking students.
i think that so many expats miss out on such a great opportunity due to false assumptions or hearsay. it's too bad, really.
Ha! When most children go for their kindergarten interview they are barely 2-years-old. Our son was actually 1-year, 11-months-old when he went for his "interview." It's hard to fathom that age (or even him now at 3-years-old) being anything but "over active."
But, personally, as a teacher myself, I find that most local children are much too docile. The active ones are usually the more engaged and actually (and I'll get flack for saying this) "more intelligent" ones. The reason why the schools want docile children is understandable--if they're going to pack their classrooms to the brim with kids it's so much easier to control the situation if those kids act similarly to little robots.
I went for a parent-teacher conference at the end of the past term and my son's kindergarten teacher first said to me, "Wow! Your son communicates so well in both Cantonese and English. How is that possible?" (I guess she didn't realize we speak both languages a lot at home). The next comment she had is, "He is so active! Sometimes he just doesn't want to focus on some subjects."
I had previously heard a story from another school staff member about how the K1 students were taken for a tour of the principal's office and all the other kids just stood there silently while the principal talked and of course, my son was pointing out all the cool objects in the room and asking questions about them--the local teachers didn't quite know what to make of that. To me, I am quite proud of the fact that my son was interested and asking questions! Maybe not interested in what he was "supposed to be interested in" (a boring adult rattling on...) but...
So, whenever someone mentions about how "over active" my son is, my internal response was, "Well, that's not really his fault, now is it? If you'd provide more relevant and stimulating activities you wouldn't have that problem." My son gets great marks for his manners and empathy toward other children and adults at school so I will never fault him for being engaged in the world and wanting to touch and learn even if that gets him labeled "over active."
My view is that any school that would reject him for being "over active" is a school that's losing out on a star pupil.
Apologies Carang for misquoting you!
However, I didn't say ALL kindergartens. I said:
"There is quite a difference between very local, local, western-local and western kindergartens."
I've been teaching in Hong Kong for 15 years so I am in a position to make such comments on the diversity of teaching methodology in Hong Kong kindergartens and schools.
However, I didn't say ALL kindergartens. I said:
"There is quite a difference between very local, local, western-local and western kindergartens."
I've been teaching in Hong Kong for 15 years so I am in a position to make such comments on the diversity of teaching methodology in Hong Kong kindergartens and schools.