The Other Side of the Glass

[thanka2]

I think this is going to be a very worthwhile documentary that explores some issues that are personally close to my heart--including a man's role in the birth of his children.

The Other Side of the Glass

 

[thanka2]

"Men would welcome training if you would just offer it to them. And if you believe making better babies is the way to make a better world then you'd better start with the fathers because in the beginning they are half the equation."

-quote from film

 

[carang]

i only WISH my hubby could have been by my side, especially at the birth of our first child. it was an emergency c-section and as such, he wasn't allowed into the OR. what i couldn't understand was this: i was having the operation because of the onset of pre-eclampsia, high blood pressure...but having my husband there to hold my hand through it would have calmed my absolutely terrified nerves and eased the pain (epidural didn't work properly)...i thought that his presence would only have served to put me more at ease and help me relax through one of the most traumatic and painful experiences of my life.

for my second, it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other as it was a c-section under general anesthesia and i slept through the entire procedure.

 

[thanka2]

i only WISH my hubby could have been by my side, especially at the birth of our first child. it was an emergency c-section and as such, he wasn't allowed into the OR. what i couldn't understand was this: i was having the operation because of the onset of pre-eclampsia, high blood pressure...but having my husband there to hold my hand through it would have calmed my absolutely terrified nerves and eased the pain (epidural didn't work properly)...i thought that his presence would only have served to put me more at ease and help me relax through one of the most traumatic and painful experiences of my life.

for my second, it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other as it was a c-section under general anesthesia and i slept through the entire procedure.

At the hospital I gave birth at--no matter if the c-section is emergency or not--you are allowed to have your partner present with you and that was written into my birth plan. In fact, my husband never left my side throughout labor and after my son was born even though I needed emergency care he followed my son wherever he went in the hospital so all procedures and tests were done with my husband present and he has video of all of the procedures being performed (I just watched those clips again tonight with my son because he likes to see what he looked like on that first night as he was getting his first bath and foot prints and also hearing tests and APGAR tests done). These things were written into my birth plan and were completely honored by the hospital I chose to give birth at.

And yes, the primary function of having the father there at the birth is to bring calm to the mother. It makes absolutely no sense to send him out of the room--unless you only see humans as mechanical beings without any psychological or emotional needs (which most of the medical field, to some degree, does). I'm sorry you had to go through that trauma alone--that was injustice to you, your husband and your child.

In the book "Husband-Coached Childbirth" by Robert A. Bradley (MD) he talks about how conception of a child is a sacred time and in the same way, when a child is born, the person responsible (the father) for that child's life is the best person to "whisper sweet nothings" in the ear of the mother to comfort her and encourage her during birth. It's a full circle that comes complete at birth and also marks the beginning of life which in almost every culture is honored as a mysterious and sacred time.

So, Dr. Bradley talks about how in the 1950s-style "knock 'em out (with drugs), drag 'em (the babies) out" of medicalised birth that became the norm after WW II, the doctor or anaesthesiologist replaced the husband at the head of the bed next to the woman in labor. But, he talks about that place of honor should be reserved for the man who is father to the child because only he truly has the right to be the one the woman leans on in labor.

 

[thanka2]

"Yes, we have rights when we go into a hospital. But, often we don't know our rights. And just as we have rights, that baby has rights."

"Because I'm an obstetrician...I read the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists website--and throughout the website for their physicians there is sentence after sentence about the sanctity of the woman's right to self-determination and how we should never interfere with her ability to either choose or refuse a procedure. What happens, though, in modern medicine is that patients are not given true informed consent...what they're given is skewed informed consent."- Stewart Fishbein, MD, FACOG, Obstetrician

"A hospital is a complex cultural system and everyone has their role. And it resists change and it resists non-conformity. So, if there is a way that all or most physicians that do things then there is an immense amount of pressure on all physicians to do things that way"- Elizabeth Alleman, MD

 

[Papaya]

I would even take this a step further and say that if the parents wish it, the father is the best person to hold and guide the mother and catch the baby. My husband grew up imagining that he would one day pace the hospital corridors like his father did when he was born - but it was not so.

Our little one came into the world with just him and me in the room. My husband first panicked about the intensity of my contractions and tried his hardest to get me to hospital. When he saw the head coming out and realized that that the hospital was not to be he took over, held me while I squatted and guided my breathing as baby came out. He somehow managed to hold me and catch the baby at the same time, and later help us both climb up onto a bed.

Yes, I believe we can birth our children alone, but Daddy's participation adds to the beauty and peace of birth.

 

[thanka2]

I would even take this a step further and say that if the parents wish it, the father is the best person to hold and guide the mother and catch the baby. My husband grew up imagining that he would one day pace the hospital corridors like his father did when he was born - but it was not so.

Our little one came into the world with just him and me in the room. My husband first panicked about the intensity of my contractions and tried his hardest to get me to hospital. When he saw the head coming out and realized that that the hospital was not to be he took over, held me while I squatted and guided my breathing as baby came out. He somehow managed to hold me and catch the baby at the same time, and later help us both climb up onto a bed.

Yes, I believe we can birth our children alone, but Daddy's participation adds to the beauty and peace of birth.

Your experience sounds very interesting indeed! Did you give birth here in Hong Kong? I think that fathers have a huge role to play in birth and shouldn't just be viewed as a "nice accessory" or as is often the case "a nuissance" (by the hospital staff). In my case, I view my husband as my biggest advocate and truly the one guiding a lot of the birthing experience. I had another checkup in the public hospital yesterday where they explained a lot of the admission rules and procedures and I found that it actually is up to the discretion of the hospital staff at the time you're admitted whether or not your husband is allowed to accompany you throughout labor and birth--even though the video showed that women may be accompanied by their husbands. Then I spoke with a woman who had given birth at that hospital who said some of the women were not allowed to have their husbands with them. To me, that would be absolutely intolerable during labor.

 

[thanka2]

I would even take this a step further and say that if the parents wish it, the father is the best person to hold and guide the mother and catch the baby. My husband grew up imagining that he would one day pace the hospital corridors like his father did when he was born - but it was not so.

Our little one came into the world with just him and me in the room. My husband first panicked about the intensity of my contractions and tried his hardest to get me to hospital. When he saw the head coming out and realized that that the hospital was not to be he took over, held me while I squatted and guided my breathing as baby came out. He somehow managed to hold me and catch the baby at the same time, and later help us both climb up onto a bed.

Yes, I believe we can birth our children alone, but Daddy's participation adds to the beauty and peace of birth.

Your experience sounds very interesting indeed! Did you give birth here in Hong Kong? I think that fathers have a huge role to play in birth and shouldn't just be viewed as a "nice accessory" or as is often the case "a nuissance" (by the hospital staff). In my case, I view my husband as my biggest advocate and truly the one guiding a lot of the birthing experience. I had another checkup in the public hospital yesterday where they explained a lot of the admission rules and procedures and I found that it actually is up to the discretion of the hospital staff at the time you're admitted whether or not your husband is allowed to accompany you throughout labor and birth--even though the video showed that women may be accompanied by their husbands. Then I spoke with a woman who had given birth at that hospital who said some of the women were not allowed to have their husbands with them. To me, that would be absolutely intolerable during labor.

 

[Papaya]

Sorry to hear that about the hospital policy. If you are determined you should be able to insist on this. I recently read a book "Birth" about the history of birthing. When births first moved into hospitals in many places fathers were not allowed into the room. Parents had to fight this, sometimes with extreme measures such as women hand cuffing themselves to their husbands. You should not need to go that far but if you and your husband are determined you will be able to get him in or to birth where he can be.

For me the desire to stay close to my husband was so strong that it made me all the more determined to stay home and not go into a public hospital at the risk of being separated. Yes it was in HK, not planned that way but we stayed home.

 

[thanka2]

Papaya, it's very interesting that you gave birth at home. I think that must be pretty rare here in Hong Kong but as you said you hadn't planned to do it that way. Did you or the baby have any complications afterward that required hospitalization?

My philosophy about birth when it comes to me is that the goal for me is to remain as calm and low-stress as possible in order to go through labor most efficiently. To me, I don't feel that it should be necessary for me to have to start an all-out war (handcuffs etc.) at the hospital while I'm in labor.

The problem with the public hospital is that it's not a "client-centered" environment. Maybe it can't be due to the number of cases they see and under the circumstances they see them. So, it's not as if you have a nice consultation with the doctors and nurses you know will be present at your birth beforehand (I'm talking, weeks beforehand so you can really discuss goals and expectations--not just handing them a slip of paper as you enter the hospital) and that you can guarantee that they are on the same page as you as far as your birth wishes go. It's impossible to have that reassurance. All you get is an overview of hospital policy and that is what guides the actual behavior of whoever the staff members at your birth happen to be. Some may truly be on board with your own birth philosophy but there are no guarantees. Luck of the draw. Who you get is who you get.

So, when it comes to labor time, I think it is absolutely not conducive to a natural labor to have to "fight" with the hospital staff to make sure your husband is in the room with you. Or even to have to "fight" them on any issue. Labor is not the time or place to go to battle--that's too much stress for a laboring mother and affects breathing and focus. I certainly don't want to bring that sort of stress and negativity into play during my birth--not good for me or the goal I'm trying to accomplish.

Also, another thing I found out the other day was that when you're in labor, you're actually laboring in a room with at least another woman. To me, that's just bizarre. Again, I believe it's important to keep a tranquil atmosphere and I don't know if I would be able to do that with the interference of another woman's groans and other noises while she is giving birth. When I was in labor with my son I was very sensitive to noise and light and I think it would also just not be conducive to be listening to someone going through their own process while I'm trying to focus and go through mine. I guess if you're one of these ladies who only spends an hour or two in the labor ward and then goes to delivery right away it might not make a difference. All I can think of is my 2-day long experience in labor. I would have spent 40 hours in the labor ward (had I been in HK) and 3 or less in delivery. But, had I been in HK the pressure to have a c-section (although it would have been 100% unnecessary) would have been overwhelming. I didn't have that type of pressure at the hospital I was at, thankfully.

Also, I found the hospital policy video very interesting as all the women in labor were just lying there in the bed, flat on their backs. That also does not work for me. I had an extremely long and painful labor and it would have been even more painful and longer if I had just been lying in the bed. Being able to walk, squat, lean and sit in a hot bath were the keys to getting me through it.

As far as giving birth at home. I have mentioned this to my husband but he is totally not for it as with the birth of my son, I hemorrhaged afterward and did need medical attention. So, I am definitely one of those people who sees the real practical need for access to medical equipment in case of an emergency and that's why I would choose to give birth in a hospital. But, having said that, I know from my previous experience that it is possible to have the "best of both worlds" even in a hospital setting. Most hospitals where I'm from design their labor and birth wards as birthing suits. This means that each room is designed with things like a bathtub for soaking in hot water, access to birthing bars to grip while in birth, birthing balls as well as a "homey" atmosphere (rocking chair in the corner, TV, stereo, wood paneling on the walls, peaceful decor) to aid in that feeling of being in a familiar environment. You labor and give birth in the same room.

And I wholeheartedly believe that the things like attitude of staff and environment of where you're giving birth have a huge psychological impact on birthing experiences (or can). And when it comes to dealing with birthing pain naturally, I think it's probably 80%+ a mental thing (mind over matter--having a coping system) so in my case I can not really stress enough the importance of environment to the birthing experience.

 

[Papaya]

I agree with you completly on the need to stay calm during labour. Yes it would be counter-productive to set up a fight. I guess it is probably wiser to try to stay as zen as possible and accept what is put to you - just that this is not my nature and I would find that increadibly hard so not something I can recommend as such. Perhaps your husband can do more of defensive work. I don't have any experience of birthing in hospitals but from everything I have heard about it is something I am very concerned about.


I agree with you that a home birth would not be a good idea in your case. We were very lucky not to have any issues and did not need to go in to hospital. Our doula/midwife arrived after the birth and could handle everything allowing us to stay home.

While I completly belive in homebirths I do see that in HK it is not as straight forward and low-risk as in other places, so if you have a reason expect a complication it is not the best option.

From your posts I can tell that you have done a lot of preparation and research on birth and that you are committed to the birth that you want. With this preparation and your experience you are in the best position possible to get the birth you want. Sending you good wishes. Please let us know how you get on.